Evolution vs. Creation Topic

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Saved By Grace, Oct 20, 2014.


Is He Right Or Wrong About This?

  1. Yes.

    0 vote(s)
  2. No.

    3 vote(s)
  1. Hello everyone. Quick question about something.

    My friend and I got into a conversation recently about Creation and Evolution. I told him I believed God created the Universe and everything there is to be known and he agreed. However, he did tell me that God created everything but that animals evolved overtime. He said that there was scientific proof of the animals evolving. I didn't really know how to respond to that. He seems to believe in Creation and Evolution. I am the same way in terms of "Survival of the Fittest".

    This led me to this topic in which I want to know everyone's opinions regarding this. Did the animals possibly evolve overtime? I say, "No." But I don't really have anything to back this up, this is mainly just how I have been raised. Not the "scientific" kind of guy. This is just a question. Please don't turn this into an argument and follow the rules of CFS.
    Ghid likes this.
  2. DNA, discovered in 1953, shatters evolution. DNA is an information medium which means it didn't just happen, no more than a DVD just happens and you can see a movie. DNA is a non-material item which means it was placed there, it can't just happen, no more than this message evolved from the bits and bytes running around the internet and came together to answer your question. Yea, it's that simple.
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  3. #3 KingJ, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
    We all have theories of creation, past and future. Even among Christians many disagree. But Christians should always look at the unknown in light of the known. Known = God is good. God is not a liar = Scripture cannot be ignored.

    Evolution is one of those theories that the unsaved have latched onto and are annoyingly pushing as the best 'scientific theory'. Which is tripe. Math's debunks it completely. Evolutionists see amazing transformations and mutations among viruses and bacteria, especially when in radiated samples and conclude that that is evidence. A virus never becomes superman. It gets fat, slow, sick or has lateral changes. They stretch far for a straw on the Tiptaalik being the missing link between fish and reptile when they need ....1000 000 000 000's missing links between a fish and reptile.

    The chief problem with evolution is the limiting factors constraining their parameters. A universe 14 billion years old and carbon dated fossils causes outrageous claims like .....we come from a flatworm 500 million years ago. It would be more believable if they said the universes age is 14 trillion x close to infinity and we came from a worm 500 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 x 1 000 000 years ago. The odds of atoms bonding to form working parts are outrageous!! Just consider your odds of getting 6 winning numbers in the lotto. Then consider how many winning particles you need for the simplest working cell...let alone a human.

    Making evolution a rather ''dumb'' theory.

    Now Christians must not be naïve on evolution. In general Christians must never oppose / stand in the way of science! But that does not mean we must be brain dead and tolerate a theory being pushed when it does so much damage to our God / belief / scripture.

    The problems are:

    1. Mocks all of scripture = When evolution claims mankind is 200k years old...the bible at 6k-7.5k becomes recent fairytale dogma.

    2. Mocks the cross = When evolution claims we evolved intelligence we wonder if Adam's dad was a monkey accountable for sin or not. The point where mankind became accountable for sin becomes a joke. Jesus died for all mankind because all mankind needed a Savior, because all mankind is intelligent and hence accountable for sin. Intelligence = accountability. We are created just beneath the angels. Monkeys are never '''just beneath the angels''. Mankind living 200k years ago could choose to kill or show mercy / steal and gauge pain with the recipient prompting their 'conscience' to kick in. We don't need a ''miraculous'' spirit to know good from evil. We just need high intelligence. With high intelligence a 'good' God becomes obligated to consider giving us more (spirit / heaven).

    3. Suggests God is evil = natural selection = evil, just ask the one being eaten. God is not evil. If evil cannot be traced to the fallen angels or humans....only God is left as being accountable.

    In light of these three points above it is crystal clear to me that the devil is involved in pushing this theory. This should really not be a surprise to us.

    A real problem theistic evolutionists have today is that they have to believe God has a guiding hand. Evolution is never taught in support of it being guided and its claims point to an evil God. I respect their desire to 'not oppose science' ...but today it is really just sad to watch how much they need to swallow / knock their belief in support of ''science'' :sick:.
    Major likes this.
  4. If the lord created some rudimentary animals and established laws that would direct and govern evolution, then that would mean that death happened from day dot, over millions of years.
    Rom 8:20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
    Rom 8:21. that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
    Rom 8:22. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
    Rom 8:23. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
    Paul seems to recognize that death and corruption is linked to the fall of mankind and earlier he said:
    Rom 5:12. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
    Rom 5:13. for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
    Rom 5:14. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

    So an evolutionary model just does not sit well with the clear teaching of Scripture.
    Death did not reign over life for millions of years until Adam and Eve messed up...that is not believable. But that Animals were created at the same time as mankind, and became subject to death along with mankind, now that is believable and fits the observed facts as well as the teachings of Scripture.
    Major, Abdicate and KingJ says Amen and like this.
  5. Amen Calvin. God created a lion with big teeth = God planned for what was coming. Just like bruising Jesus was planned. Before sin, lions laid peacefully with their future food.
    Major likes this.
  6. This is exactly what I was thinking when he said this. If you look throughout the Bible you can see that He described animals as big or small. He described lions as big with huge teeth. In Psalms even, He used analogies to describe certain animals. "swift as a fox" (just an example) but still, something definitely noteworthy.
    KingJ likes this.
  7. In science the word, evolution, means change. Sometimes astronomers use the word, evolution, to say stars evolve along the main sequence, which means how stars change as they hydrogen changes to helium. Stars change, or sometimes the astronomers say stars evolve, depending on their size. So stars change, or sometimes the word is evolve, stars evolve.

    In popular culture, the word, evolution, refers to why species change, but in science the word, evolution, refers to the change. The oldest fossils, like at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, are single cell organisms. Younger fossils, like in the Atlas Mountains, are multicellular round worms. As the fossils become younger the fossils have similar shapes, but the features are different. I read about a paleontological site, which was millions of years of shell fish. On the bottom the shell fish were smooth. On the top the shell fish were rough. When the paleontologists examined the boundary between the smooth and the rough shell fish, the change had happened fast, they could not measure the time. So in science the word, evolution, means change. In biology or paleontology, the word evolution means change of species. The word evolution means change of any kind of organism, such as animals, plants, fungi, or bacteria.

    I live on a schedule. I have an obligation to run with my running partners, so I must continue this explanation, or whatever it is, later if you want to read about how scientists debated the various theories of evolution for about 150 years before they decided that natural selection is why species change.
  8. I would make the argument that if Evolution did take place after all (which I don't discredit), then it remained creation as it was God's creation and his means of how His creation would unfold. Evolution, to many, means it came from nothing.

    KingJ is right when he said that the unbeliever has latched onto Evolution, but it's because no other theory or concept could be offered to the unsaved -- it is his only choice. The believer, however, can consider multiple theories provided they lead to God as our creator. How he chose to paint the picture -- whether he intended time to allow the painting to settle and establish color and texture, or if he displayed his work of art immediately after it was painted, that's ultimately where some Christians may differ.

    This thread is similar to another one we recently had. My position is that science really isn't theology. The Bible is not a book of science, nor does it break down the scientific explanation for Genesis. It doesn't mean what did happen in Genesis didn't happen to the letter, but science is merely a discovery of what already is and how we can better understand it. Just as the Big Bang was a theory of when God struck the match.

    It's a fun discussion and even a worth-while discussion, but it ultimately ought to get to the heart of the matter, which is our own souls and our salvation. Believing or not believing in evolution doesn't save us.
    JG27_chili, Ghid and calvin says Amen and like this.
  9. www.icr.org


    Here's the real issue: sin. Mankind is allergic to the truth form God-we by nature reject it unless we repent and become a Child of the Most High. So 'evolution' has gained traction in the secular world; being implemented into the education system to indoctrinate children at a young age because it appeals to our 'nature and logic'. Though species to species "macro-evolution" has NEVER been observed-cannot be duplicated- and is a dead 'scientific concept (theory)'; it is still taught as fact. In my opinion: evolution is a deadly spirit killing, family dividing, rebellion creating tool of the devil since we fight a spiritual war; we fight against 'ideas'; principalities and powers in 'high places' (government & education).

    The problem that Christians have (which I often struggled with) is not a 'Creation -v- Evolution' mentality: it is the condition of the heart. I have come to a conclusion that if a person is willing to accept a lie as big as evolution-they are willing to believe in anything. This attack is about erasing God from man's conscience; it is about man believing that they are only accountable to themselves: that we are the 'masters of our destiny'; which in a way is a twisted truth from God.

    We fight against a 'Time' concept: because without time, evolutionary theory falls apart: 'Millions of years ago, scientists BELEIVE, such and such occured...; based on data INTERPRETED from such and such'. This is no different than: 'Long ago and far away...' It is a fairy tale supported by Billions of dollars by the World. Originally 'evolution' was held to a 10,000 year timeline; but that wasn't enough "time" to do what they wanted the theory to do-so they made it longer...and longer...and longer. So what are we up to this year? 4.3 Billion years?

    This is what is currently happening in the 'evolutionary science' community behind closed doors: because of the recent (last decade) discovery of the complexity of the genome code and formation of DNA, amino acids and such; evolutionists cannot compensate enough 'time' mathematically to account for ALL the variety and diversity in all the DNA types of all species of the planet- it is 'infinite'. Which to some is acceptable-to others who understand the constants (absolutes) of certain scientific 'laws' this becomes a problem- it makes evolution -on this earth- impossible.

    See, evolutionists have fallen for the bait and switch-if one critter is 'similar' to another; they claim '(macro)evolution' although no data can be drummed up to support it. So they use 'variation, adaption and mutation' on a "micro-evolution" scale to claim that macro-evolution is true. Adaptation, variation and mutation can be scientifically observed in relative short periods of time (think about that); but NEVER has any of these processes shown a jump from one 'species (kind)' to another. One of the latest 'evolutionary proofs' was scientists creating a new bacteria from ....(drum role please) .... a bacteria. It didn't change 'kinds'. But yet they proclaimed it from the housetops. So think about this: 'scientists' (mankind), used there knowledge (intelligently designing) new life from existing life. Anyone see a problem here? It is easy to believe that One kind changed to another kind-but if you use your brain and think about the BILLIONS of complex lifeforms from single cells to humans that had to develop and evolve by 'chance' over time from the same 'primordial ooze-it just becomes ridiculous...(and mathematically impossible).

    Back to the time issue-since a timeline for evolutionary development mathematically cannot be implemented due to complexity; it makes things like; oh nothing on the planet -or the planet itself- being able to survive the unimaginable temperatures that would have been on the planet when 'evolution' supposedly started: new theory's abound. This is what is coming down the pipe to try to save evolution 'science': the earth was created with NO life (or maybe just plant life-or a basic support system-you pick); life was brought here by some EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL means. That's right! Modern science will soon be teaching that we come from "aliens" in the public school textbooks rather than giving up on evolution.

    It's already begun, just READ news articles and watch TV. If you believe 'evolution'; you are subject to believe anything...
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  10. .
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  11. Your post and links takes the cake Brother Mike. Well said.
    Major likes this.
  12. "It's a fun discussion and even a worth-while discussion, but it ultimately ought to get to the heart of the matter, which is our own souls and our salvation. Believing or not believing in evolution doesn't save us."
    I tend to agree with most of what you said here, but I question this last statement.
    If by evolution one means a gradual improvement of a species from basic to more civilized or more sophisticated and specialized, why should one believe in the need for salvation?
    Playing devil's advocate, I might say that "my ancestors were rude, crude individuals that could not even eat dinner with a knife and fork whereas I have evolved into a person of high moral and cultural attainment...what need have I of salvation? Moreover with improved medical/pharmaceutical knowledge, and 'better' diet, I can live longer than my barbaric forefathers did. "
    So yes. even as evolution belief doesn't save us is a true statement, I see it at the very least as being a fairly powerful pull against a recognition of 'our' need for salvation.
    Ghid likes this.
  13. I meant in regards to the scientific case for Evolution, not the theological one. Original sin remains. God remains. Our need for salvation remains. All of that beyond evolution taking place or not taking place.
  14. I totally understand. I was just curious. At the fact that this was said to me. But yes, it doesn't matter. As long as you believe God's Son died on the cross and God created the world, then everything else in between doesn't matter.
  15. Evolution #2

    The history of theories of the change of species could begin with James Hutton (1726–1797), a Scottish farmer and naturalist. He lived in a time, which historians call the Enlightenment, a time in which Newton had explained the planets’ motion, Franklin discovered electricity, and men (and maybe women) debated how and in what manner kings and commoners were equal. When I think about it I have a sort of vision of a second tower of babel. :)

    Hutton believed in a sort of geological theory of evolution. As far as I know, he did not use the word, evolution, but he believed that Earth continues to form. For example molten material becomes mountains, which erode into sediments.

    In 1788 Hutton presented a paper before the Royal Society of Edinburgh. He described Earth’s changing nature as a continuous cycle with rocks and soil washing into the sea, compacting into bedrock, with volcanic processes forcing magma to the surface to cool and again wear into sediment.

    Hutton described a world with “no vestige of a beginning, no prospect of an end.” To me that sounds theologically provocative enough to have roused the Christian commandos of Cambridge to defend the faith, but I think that mostly the English Church ignored him

    Hutton did spend time dealing with accusations of impiety. He wrote about the criticism, but he did not publish the manuscript, so likely his ideas did not generate the kind of heat and vituperation generated since the 1860’s. He believed that God created the world in a certain order, and he thought that the word, day, meant an indefinite period of time. Philosophically, he believed that science should not mess with religion and the other way around.

    Hutton’s ideas influenced later scientists, such as Lyell and Darwin, But probably not Lamark.
  16. I've read several of Stephen Gould's books. He was adamant about how organisms don't change from basic to more sophisticated. They change because they fit or don't fit into the niche.

    I don't feel like I understand religion well enough to have an opinion about this, but my study advisor insists that all cultures have an origin myth, and I do think that evolution provides atheists or deists with an origin myth.
  17. The evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming. All life on this planet is related because we all share common ancestors. Those that deny it are welcome to do so if it makes you feel warm and cozy but it still happened.

    What are you worried about anyway? Just because we evolved out of a primordial soup doesn't mean you can't find salvation through Jesus Christ.
    Ghid likes this.
  18. ASUK... There is no "evidence" for evolution. It is all theory based off a Godless world-view. Those "caveman" bones are really just monkey bones tilted upright. Those "Fossil layers", are really just random assortments of animal fossils in layers of mud tossed about by the flood. The DNA in your cells is evidence that you were intelligently crafted by an almighty God.

    Evolution makes no sense, and neither does a God who so blatantly contradicts his own inspired word to humanity.
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  19. Evolution is a Godless theory that comes from the pits of hell. Ever heard of Genesis? You know, the first book of the scriptures God has given us?

    Do you even know what's in the Bible? Do you believe it?

    Sorry if I offend you, but I am quite sick of people denying the most important teachings about our history.

    No, we did not die and evolve from other organisms over billions of years. That's heresy. God made us the way we are!
    Ghid likes this.
  20. And, you are right ASUK, this has nothing to do with salvation. But if you really believe in the God of the Bible, at least believe what he says!
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