1. Hello Guest! You are browsing the forums as a guest; you will have limited permissions as a guest so we advise registering to enjoy the forums fully. Remember: we are a Christian ONLY site - any user who is not Christian will not be approved. Blessings, Christian Forum Site Staff
    Dismiss Notice

Evidence of the Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Kevin, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. Evidence of the Holy Spirit

    I am busy working through some topics that God has been putting on my mind lately and one of them is evidence of the Holy Spirit.

    Many churches today state that evidence of the Holy Spirit is the ability to talk in tongues. This is a highly debated subject, which Paul dealt with in his letter to the Corinthian church. Personally I think that any spiritual gift, if authentic is evidence of the Holy Spirit.

    I do not wish to discuss the issue of speaking in tongues here as I am sure it already has been discussed in another thread.

    I believe that all spiritual gifts can be counterfeited by man and the devil, eg. false prophecies, false healings, false tongues etc. Due to this fact, pure logic tells me that evidence of gifts is not 100% evidence of the Holy Spirit.

    So I have turned to scripture and so far I have found only one where Paul states what is required to show evidence of the Holy Spirit. 1Cor 12 1-3

    I have studied these verses in quite a bit of detail and I understand that the word "Lord" in context of this passage means God. I do not want to go into all the research I have done here but a simple look into Strongs Concordance or Vines expository dictionary will confirm this.

    From this I understand that one cannot admit openly that Jesus is God unless they have the Holy Spirit.

    Are there any other passages in the Bible where it clearly states that a certain thing is only possible with the presence of the Holy Spirit?

    (I ask again, please lets not debate the gift of tongues).

  2. Hi Kevin,
    I do not have very much time this morning due to the fact I have to get ready to go to work soon, but if you have a little spare time to do a little more research I am certain you will find more passages here regarding gifts of the Holy Spirit.
    God Bless!
  3. Thanks Freedom, I will have a look.
  4. There are many evideces of the Holy Spirit. You can move in many of the gifts as you have faith and be completely immature in Christ as we see demonstrated Paul's letters to the Church at Corinth.
    If one really wants to know if the Holy Spirit is working in one's life then looking for the fruit of the Spirit is a much better gauge by which to measure both maturity and relationship.

    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    One a more personel note we are exhorted to walk in the spirit- this is to take each step in complete submission to and total dependance on the Holy Spirit. He will indeed guide our each and every step and is interested in being part of every aspect of our lives. Jesus demonstrated this in His earthly walk- He was totally in submission to the Father's will and completely lead of the Holy Spirit. These things He did as an example to us- this is how we are to live our lives.
    Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    Gal 5:16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    Rom 8:4
    That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    Rom 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

    Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
  5. Thankyou my son for those words and I am realizing that more and more in my own walk and this year for me after my week of fast... God is wanting me to walk more According to His Word and letting the Holy Spirit be my teacher. This is not something that others can teach me... this is my own personal walk with the Lord and digging deeper into His Word . How can I know and understand God's heart if I do not seek, knock and find ?

    It boils down for me that I am responsible for me and me alone and believe that I must have more discernment what I watch on TV ... ( Tel-evangelists) what I put into my spirit and how are my fruits evident in my own life .?
  6. I used to roll my eyes :rolleyes: when I heard someone telling me "God told me to do this - God told me to do that."

    Then I read an entry in one of my study books that God has many gifts for His followers. Some people receive visions, some of them speak in tongues, some of them receive orders to do a certain task, some of them are gifted with advice, some of them are driven to build something, some of them are driven to give.

    I have a gift. You have a gift. :)And this little study book told me that I should appreciate the gifts of those around me, because their gifts are given by God to that person not for their own benefit...but eventually for the glory of God.:D
  7. Thanks for all the replies.

    But what I was looking for was scripture that can help us identify without a doubt if somebody is speaking etc through the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

    Lets look at Prophecy for example, I am well aquainted with all the different types and offices of prophets etc, BUT how do we know if a prophet is absolutely genuine. Many false prophets abound today and lead many people astray. People are drawn to prophecy for various reasons and many are led down the garden path into false beliefs.

    I do not want to discuss the in's and outs of prophecy itself but more the identification of a true prophet vs false prophet.

    Yes there are the fruits of the Spirit which are very important and yes there is the question of the accuracy of prophecy. My isssue is that people can fake many things even the accuracy of their prophecy by clever and mystic wording which have double meanings. In the Old testament there where many false prophets who the people followed but when the real prophets came along people usually hated them because they brought conviction.

    I am just using prophecy as an example, but the same goes for all the spiritual gifts. The bible warns of false miracles and false prophets in the end times, how do we absolutely distinguish them from the truth?

    I believe that Paul and John summed it up very well. All people who claim to be working in the power of the Holy Spirit must openly declare their belief in the Deity of Jesus, acknowledge Him as the Christ and that He came in a physical body, was crucified and rose from the dead.

  8. If we know the gentle leading of the Holy Spirit He will give us a witness in our spirit and we have discernment form God.
  9. Exactly my son, what else do we need ?
  10. Kevin,

    I understand your frustration as I went through a similar experience over 15 years ago. As television ministries and prophecies were put out there for public consumption, I heard so many things that I never heard before. I thought to myself how wonderful these things would be if they are true. I also had thoughts of fear with all the endtime teachings.

    I would hear one preacher say one thing, yet contradict himself 5 minutes later, only to have the next preacher say something completely different. Hence is the world today of Christianity.

    So, what I started doing was taking notes on these TV preachers. I would write down their scriptural references with notes as to what they say the scriptures mean. Then, I would read those scriptures and determine if what they said is true or false. If the scripture was the underlying premise for the preacher's teaching and his/her interpretation was false, then it was fair to label that preacher a false one on that subject [doesn't mean they are always incorrect].

    Accordingly, I was able to get a good feel for truth versus fakery/falsehood.

    Unfortunately, your quest for a single scripture that can be used, alone, to sort the true from the false will be disappointing. The one that sticks out in my mind is 2 Tim. 3:16. This scripture, though arduous, will always sort out the true from the false Christian teachers, practices, rituals, prophecies, etc. The only way that you will know for sure is to check everything out for yourself in the scriptures.

    Once you do this, you will be able to say with full confidence that the practice of modern day tongues, the alleged healings, the rapture, etc. are, indeed, falsities.
  11. Thanks watchman,

    I agree all teachings, prophecies etc should be tested against the word of God.

    One point I do not agree with you is the subject of spiritual gifts, all of them are still in effect today but that is another subject matter. Fortunately our personal beliefs in the workings of the spiritual gifts does not effect our salvation.

    I have come to the conclusion that 1Cor 12 1-3 is the evidence that I have been looking for. I have actually gone and tested this verse.

    For some or other reason people cannot, or find it very difficult, to state that they believe in Jesus Christ as God. They either tend to skip arround the statement or change it into something similar. I have found non-believers and even some christians find it very easy to curse God and Jesus but they cannot physically declare that Jesus is God.

    The bible states that we cannot say Jesus is Lord (meaning God) without the Holy Spirit. Which simply means a false teacher and an unbeliever cannot physically say this.

    The bible says we should test all prohecies, and I think this is where the rubber hits the road, in a simple statement of faith.

    I have heard numerous prophets and evangelists but I have never heard them declare their faith in Jesus as God. Next time I am actually going to ask them to do this before giving their message.

    We are told that we should not test God, but nowhere does it state we cannot test people against Gods word.

    Try this, I am still amazed at how acurate this simple verse is and how it can actually be applied.
  12. Kevin.... Thanks for that enlightenment. Very good thoughts indeed.
  13. Kevin,

    You wrote:
    One point I do not agree with you is the subject of spiritual gifts, all of them are still in effect today but that is another subject matter.
    I never said that spiritual gifts were not in effect. All I said was that the displays of spiritual gifts by many in certain churches are fake.

    For instance, a critical analysis of scripture would certainly prove those so-called faith healers, like Benny Hinn, to be phonies. Likewise, those that speak 'gibberish' and call it 'tongues' are completely in error with their practice.

    Is it important to sort fact from fiction out with respect to salvation? That is a good question. Certainly, the scriptures point to many warnings of false doctrine and rituals.

    Surely, those that abuse God's people through their fraudulent fake healings will pay the price for their transgressions. I don't believe that God will hold it against those innocently duped by these charlatans.

    With respect to the practice of fake tonuges, I also believe that those who started this fake practice and teach it will pay a price for their transgression. Those innocently duped into that false practice should get a pass.

    God is completely fair.
  14. motives of evil is for us to think there good.read the bible and be saved by Jesus and ask all questions.they are given without thought or others saying.
  15. Kevin,

    Regarding 1 Cor. 12:1-3, you need to be careful. The word 'gifts' is not in the manuscripts and does not belong therein the context. Verse 1 is speaking about proselytizing -- not gifts. The word rendered 'spiritual' is actually a noun -- not an adjective.

    So, it would be prudent to not base your quest on a bastardized rendering of 'spiritual gifts'.
  16. My experience with this has been very simular except that I have found those who will say; "Jesus is God" but not say; "Jesus is Lord"
    (I believe) the reason is that, "Jesus is God" is a theological statement that can be proven in context of scripture and taught through out Christianity. It is an accademic statement void of acceptance or commitment
    However, "Jesus is LORD" is a proclimation of one's submission to Christ. Even the demons acknowledge that Jesus is God, but they will not call him LORD.
    In my limited experience, no one professing false prophicy, having faked a sign or healing will say "Jesus is LORD"
    I have seen them respond as to indicate or infer they agree or question or argue as to why they should make such a statement but will never come right out and say or write the words "Jesus is LORD.

    Jesus is LORD
  17. Jesus never referred to himself as God. That is why people are hesitant to say so. Jesus always gave deference to God the Father.

    It has been an age-old problem for many who try to define God in man's terms.
  18. Yet according to Father God Jesus is God:
    Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    Jesus is Lord:
    Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
    The gifts of the Spirit are real:
    6. charisma (G5486), "a gift of grace, a gift involving grace" (charis) on the part of God as the donor, is used (a) of His free bestowments upon sinners, Rom_5:15, Rom_5:16; Rom_6:23; Rom_11:29; (b) of His endowments upon believers by the operation of the Holy Spirit in the churches, Rom_12:6; 1Co_1:7; 1Co_12:4, 1Co_12:9, 1Co_12:28, 1Co_12:30, 1Co_12:31; 1Ti_4:14; 2Ti_1:6; 1Pe_4:10; (c) of that which is imparted through human instruction, Rom_1:11; (d) of the natural "gift" of continence, consequent upon the grace of God as Creator, 1Co_7:7; (e) of gracious deliverances granted in answer to the prayers of fellow believers, 2Co_1:11.
    Note: In the KJV of
    2Co_8:4charis, "grace," is translated "gift." The RV, "in regard of this grace," adheres to the true meaning, as in 2Co_8:6.
    merismos (G3311), "a dividing" (from meros, "a part"), is translated "gifts" in Heb_2:4, "gifts of the Holy Ghost" (marg., "distributions"); in Heb_4:12, "dividing." see DIVIDING. Vines Expository Dictionary of the New Testament
    As far as the accuracy the usage of of "gifts" the following translatiors disagree with your statement:
    1Co 12:4
    (ACV) Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    (ALT) Now [there] are varieties of spiritual [gifts], but the same Spirit.
    (AUV-NT) Now there are a variety of [spiritual] gifts, but [they are given by] the same Holy Spirit.
    (ASV) Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    (BBE) Now there are different qualities given to men, but the same Spirit.
    (Bishops) There are diuersities of gyftes, but the spirite [is] one.
    (CEV) There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but they all come from the same Spirit.
    (CENT) Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    (Complete Apostles' Bible) Now there are varieties of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit.
    (Darby) But there are distinctions of gifts, but the same Spirit;
    (DRB) Now there are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit.
    (EMTV) Now there are varieties of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit.
    (ESV) Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
    (Geneva) Now there are diuersities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    (GNB) There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit gives them.


Share This Page