Enlightenment

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Complete, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. I think i have to say i disagree a little.... I believe the job of the pastor is to guide and encourage each believer to be obedient to God's Word and to walk in God's ways. And to preach the uncompromised Word of God in love. It's to be a shepherd like our Lord shepherds His flock...and yes sometimes that may make people uncomfortable initially...however the encouragement brings them peace also. :)

    Jesus operated in the office of a preacher just as much the other gifts. And should always be our example

    Blessings
     
    loriT likes this.
  2. As I can understand your view, it would be beneficial for you to not yell at anyone. This keeps you in compliance with the rules of this forum that you agreed to abide by when you joined.

    God bless you abundantly
     
  3. I hope that you are happy! You are now the only person to disagree with me.;)
     
    Cturtle likes this.
  4. Hey brother. If I can keep from yelling (Caps) so can you!
     
    Fish Catcher Jim and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  5. Well if I may add my 2 cents
    I believe it should be the Holy Spirit making any one anything for if The Holy Spirit does it then there is No Room for Questioning However if man does it, then you have to question the spirit of things and the motive of man and so forth.

    Well there you have it !!
    :whistle:
    Blessings my brother and friend
    FCJ
     
    Cturtle likes this.
  6. Oops I just messed that one up for now there is two. Lol
     
    Major and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  7. Thank You Sir !!
    k8220377.jpg
     
    Major and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  8. Absolutely correct. If the preacher is submitted to God he will allow the Holy Spirit to use him and it then becomes the work of the Holy Spirit to convict men of their sin through the preaching of the Word of God.

    John 16:8 .............
    "When he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world, and show where right and wrong and judgment lie. He will convict them of wrong..."

    Prov 24:24-25 ............
    " Whoever says to the guilty, "you are innocent"--peoples will curse him and nations denounce him. But it will go well with those who convict the guilty, and rich blessing will come upon them."
     
    Cturtle and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  9. Major wrote:

    Absolutely correct. If the preacher is submitted to God he will allow the Holy Spirit to use him and it then becomes the work of the Holy Spirit to convict men of their sin through the preaching of the Word of God.
    ------------------------------------------------------

    Shouldn't we return to "Hell-fire preaching" and have the congregation at the altar every Sunday, like Jonathan Edwards did? Certainly, Edwards
    was a preacher submitted to God. Recall his sermon, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God." Don't you think he was used powerfully by the Lord? A lot of
    people were saved under his ministry.
     
    Major likes this.
  10. Hi Penion,
    There may have been a time and place for that hell fire preaching but in today's world that is the last thing the unsaved need to hear.

    They don't need to be told how bad they are and so forth......they already know this. All that does for the most part is push them to the thinking of.....well if I am that much of a worm and there is no hope then I might as well stay as I am.....

    They need to grasp the Love of God for them.

    Two types of preaching going on in this thread....

    Salvation and Teaching and building up the saints.

    I don't know about you but if my pastor would start in on that old hell and brimstone preaching...... lol I would bring a good mp3 player and head phones.
    Blessings
    FCJ
     
    Cturtle likes this.
  11. In my opinion, in a word....yes.

    Not only him but America's 2nd Awakening was led by Billy Sunday, DL Moody to name two.

    Should it be done week in and week out??? NO.

    Todays church members would not stand for it.
     
  12. Every preacher must know his congregation. The fact is simple. The great majority of church believe they are Christians. They do not have an understanding that they have for hell fire and damnation preaching. And you are right. I do not want to hear that every Sunday. But neither do I believe that it should be forgotten about and never preached on.

    If hell is real just as is heaven, should they both not be preached about?????

    My dear friends. The reason that the "Good News" is so good is the fact that the "Bad News" is really bad. IMO, preaching on hell should never, ever be locked away in a chest and forgotten about.

    I am probably different than most (lol), but the truth for me is that at 14 years old I heard evangelist E.J. Daniels preach on hell and I knew right then that I did not want to go there. So what did I do. I did what he told me would save me from hell......The Lord Jesus Christ!!!!

    Now later I learned about the love and compassion of God and His mercy and grace. But in the beginning I got saved so that I would not go to hell.
     
  13. I agree we all need to know about our enemy the devil and how he operates and so forth.

    The old turn or burn message does not do much for the equipping the saints. If at best it might scare some one into being saved but then what?

    Look scripture says that Jesus Cried.....let them that have ears ....hear... this proves Jesus was a Preacher too.......so if Jesus gets loud at times then a true grounded preacher is gonna get Loud too. Thank God......

    Teach me, build me up, equip me and correct me but please do not waste my time. This is how I view a pastor or church. If your messages can not be found in any of those....then what are you doing?
    Know what I mean Major?
    Have a great day !
    FCJ
     
    Melizza likes this.
  14. Yes I know exactly what you mean. What I am saying is that neither method should be exclusive of the other one.

    I think that we are differing here not on the message itself but on the method of presentation. Some preachers are low key teachers and some are excitable preachers which is reflected in their delivery. However, the congregation of a said church has already factored that into whether they stay at a certain church or find one that fits their needs. In other words, the people who attend 1st Baptist go there because they want and need to hear the preacher fired up and excited over his message and expect him to preach on Hell. The members at 2nd Baptist are there because they do not want the kind of preaching done a 1st Baptist.

    Without a doubt, the belief that we need to speak very gently to people about their sinful state has become very popular today. It is also very true that most people are repelled by an in-your-face "turn or burn" message. However Jim, it is also just as true that some of the most successful salvation efforts have been ones full of fire and brimstone.

    Again, IMHO, if it is in the Bible it needs to be preached. Heaven is real so we preach about it because it is in the Bible. Should not the same thing apply to the reality of hell. I think we need to remember that it was Jesus Himself who spoke on the truths and horrors of hell. It seems to me that makes it so important that God the Father trusted only His Son to tell us about it.

    The advantage of hell-fire preaching is that it gets to the heart of the problem. The key to this and one that is mostly ignored is that people need to know that they are already under a sentence of condemnation to hell, that we are all sinners. It seems to me that a lot of people have bought into the "Seeker Friendly" theology espoused by some of our popular preachers. But the Bible truth is just the opposite. No one "Seeks" after God!!! It is God that seeks out the sinner, finds him, calls him and then save him. That is the only way that allows Ephesians 2:8-9 to be true.

    The love option is a good way to connect with people, but at some point they need to be confronted with the truth. This can be done in a loving, concerned and kind way without watering down the facts.
     
    Melizza likes this.
  15. I agree. I also believe that only the Holy Spirit will and can change and move ones heart into repentance and conviction in Truth (Jesus) and Love (God).

    So as much as a Preacher can preach the Good News on Heaven or Hell, brimstone way or not - only the Holy Spirit of God will soften that persons heart to receive the Gospel.

    Blessings.
     
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  16. You're right but it's also the responsibility if you will, of a person to grow in God's Word for themselves and not only rely on a Pastor or his/her sermon.

    Blessings.
     
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  17. Agreed completely.

    Romans 14:5..........
    "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."
     
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  18. Agreeed!!! That is the only way that a man can be saved. We can preach all day long but only the Spirit of God can convict a man and point him to Christ.
     
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  19. I talked to my Pastor about this subject, and here is what he said:

    The Love option is not an option, it's a command. The love method, if you want to call it that, is the only method that Christ modeled during His ministry on earth. He had compassion for people. They felt His love because it was a real sincere love. And because of His love for mankind He had a deep desire for them to come to Him. But it is also because of His sincere love for them that they were willing to listen to Him and trust Him.

    If you have a sincere love for people they will sense that love, walls will come down and then you can confront them with their sinful state and their need for Christ.

    Pastor Paul
     
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  20. Amen Brother Amen !!
    It's funny how some think Love is an option and not a command.

    Forgiving is a command and you can't forgive unless you walk in Love

    Faith needs Love and without forgiveness your love is void which will seriously hinder your faith.

    Love ties everything together.
    God Bless you Penion my brother and friend.
    FCJ
     
    Major likes this.

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