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Does The New Testament Make The Old Testament Obsolete?

Discussion in 'New Members Welcome' started by stefan whitfield, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. hello...i would like your feedback on this question!!!
  2. On the contrary...The New Testament is simply revelation of the Old Testament by Jesus...They line up with each other in every way. Jesus taught out of the Old Testament all things concerning Himself and His kingdom. His words are gracious or life giving...Example -Proverbs...If Jesus writes just the proverbs into your heart, you will be a changed man and the rest of scripture is just as powerful and graceful...Grace is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit using the word of god to transform us. That is why ALL scripture is good for reproof correction and instruction in righteousness... Don't fall for the unmerited favor garbage being taught today my friend...Let Jesus teach you His word and be transformed by it...

    Read this post about the falling away, it covers true grace and why most who call themselves Christians today are not born again...

    Click here to read: 'The falling away is here'

    Take care
    KingJ likes this.
  3. Yes, Jesus said that He did not come to do away with the OC, but to fulfill it. The entire thing was based on the fact that your obedience to the Law would put you under God's blessing, as in, the Blessing of Abraham, which is the Blessing of the Lord. NOW, Jesus has fully satisfied the requirement of full obedience FOR you and now you are back under the Blessing of Abraham, just like Abraham was - purely by grace (God's unmerited favor), just because you believe it, because you believe what God has said; you believe Him. Galatians 3:13-14 says as much. So now, you receive God's Blessing (from what you see in Genesis 1:28, Genesis 24:35, Deuteronomy 28:1-13 for example, plus many other manifestations in the Psalms (112, 1, last part of 92, 103, 25, etc) and Proverbs (10:22, etc) on the basis of what Jesus deserves - 1 John 4:17, that AS He IS, so are WE in THIS WORLD.

    Is Jesus blessed with the Blessing of Abraham/the Blessing of the Lord to the fullest? You betcha. So are you, and you deserve it purely because Jesus has made you righteous and brought you into the Covenant, whereby NOW, BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IT, you have the Blessing of Abraham. But you got to talk it, you have speak the Blessing and words of faith (in other words, what the Bible says) about any and every situation. Everything you believe for and expect comes to pass, so does everything you dread and fear. Proverbs says this many places. It is a spiritual law. Life and death are in the power of the tongue (Prov 18:21).

    So ask yourself: WHAT are you expecting? Today, this week, this month, this year? If you aren't expecting God to move on anything, things will just stay the same day after day and month after month. Get yourself full of faith and full of the Word of God, and you cannot be quenched! Stay in faith, even when people brand you a lunatic, one of them, extreme - because you will also get MIRACLES, miracles nobody else gets, because you get what you expect. Find the Scriptures that cover what you need or want and stand on them. Write a petition before the Lord and pass it over Jesus' signature, just as He said. Post it where you'll see it everyday and keep declaring that THIS IS coming to pass TODAY and that you have it and thank the Father for it! Never turn loose of your faith! Don't let the Devil paint you a picture of failure and defeat - remember Daniel; he stayed in faith and kept going and the 21st (or 23rd?) day, the answer arrived, though the angel informed him that he had already obtained it the first moment he began to pray 3 weeks earlier. If he had turned loose of his faith, that angel would not have reached him. Get your hopes UP and be confident in the Word of God - stir up your expectation today!
  4. Hey TC, you may wish to hear a few things about that article:

    The grace part in particular. The word for grace is literally unmerited favor (looking the 1828 Webster's Dictionary (the 1st American Dictionary where all definitions are given from Scripture), or just favor, or goodwill. Jesus was full of grace, He was full of favor, full of goodwill. And the favor and the goodwill is toward US.
    Otherwise if you reject this, then how is God full of love? For the love is an attitude or action TOWARD someone. Jesus was full of love of course, for us, toward us, specifically COVENANT love, or known in the OC and with Abraham as "hesed" in the Hebrew, or in the NC as "agappe". This sort of love is often translated as tender kindness, tender loving kindness, but it's so much more; it is the highest form of love and there is no way out once entered into except to die (and that's just among men). It is what happened when David and Jonathan entered into covenant, or hesed, with one another, and their souls were knit together.

    At any rate, God is full of love, which is to say, that He is full of love TOWARD us, and in the same way Jesus is full of grace (favor/goodwill) TOWARD us.
    If we were to write that someone were full of anger, that is to say that they are full of anger toward someone, etc.

    So grace, translated from the original language means favor, or goodwill, and God means just what He says. Fighting against grace is fight against God's will and gainsay the Holy Spirit.

    Also, Jesus will be back for us (not setting His foot on the Earth at that time) who are Believers BEFORE the day of God's wrath. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 says we who believe have not been appointed for wrath.
    Romans 5:9 also says we who believe are saved from wrath.

    Revelation 6 describes the day of God's wrath (THE tribulation), but before this the Wedding Supper of the Lamb has already begun. How can the Believers, who will all be present for that in Heaven, be down here on the Earth for the day of God's wrath when Jesus said we'd be at His Wedding Supper?

    I didn't read the rest of that article, but these 2 points are very important and cancel out what that guy was trying to say.
  5. I stand with Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."
  6. I am very glad that you brought up this subject to discuss.
    I noticed that many Christians completely ignoring the Old Testament, and some even said to me that they are not under the Old Law, but under the New Law of Christ!
    And no wonder that many Christians do not understand and misinterpreting the New Testament and the message of Christ, because they have no knowledge and understanding of the Old Testament which they ignored.
    I see New Testament as the extension and as the continuation of the Old Testament, with only difference between them, that the Old Testament have two parts in itself, the Physical-Ritualistic part (such as animal sacrifices and so on), and the Spiritual part (Ten Commandments and all the details of their explanations and interpretation by the Law)
    Above all, Jesus Christ brought nothing new from Himself, but He always quoted the Old Testament, referred to the Old Testament, gave examples from the Old Testament, presented actions and deeds of the Old Testament, and spoke often about the prophets of the Old Testament.
    Actually Jesus Christ embodied in Himself entire Old Testament when He made ultimate Sacrifice on the cross, replacing by Himself all the sacrificial animals, 70 years before destruction of the Temple, and due to His Sacrifice all the rest of the physical rituals of the Old Testament became purely spiritual in Jesus Christ.
    So Jesus Christ indeed is the embodiment of Old and of New Testament, converting physical rituals of the Old Testament into the spiritual entities of the New Testament, and now only by a prayer to Jesus Christ we can activate and implement all necessary physical rituals of the Old Testament for our own benefit at any time then we need them.
    And as conclusion, without Old Testament never will be a New Testament, because the birth to the New Testament was given by the Old Testament, just like the birth of the child is impossible without its parents.
  7. Yes, with Mike the Fifth (or Mike V), that statement Alex doesn't compute with the Bible. Jesus was the fulfillment of what God said in Genesis and to fulfill the everlasting covenant made with Abraham and bring us all back to receiving the Blessing of the Lord/The Blessing of Abraham purely by grace (favor) as opposed to having to earn it through obedience. Jesus shows us in His resurrection all that is possible through the Blessing, and that we can have it all now since He has made us every bit as righteous as Himself and the Father now.

  8. Rodain... I could care less what the Websters dictionary says grace is.. I care what Jesus said grace is:

    2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

    Jesus was not full of favor- He was full of the Holy Ghost:

    Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

    If you understand what grace is, you will understand scripture...Grace is the transforming power of the Holy Spirit that teaches us how to live..

    Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
    Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

    We are not saved by 'unmerited favor but by the washing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit:

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    Unmerited favor is licentiousness or lasciviousness-exactly what Jude warns us to avoid.

    The Greek word for Grace in the Greek New Testament(not the Websters dictionary) is 'charis'. The Greek definition for 'charis' is 'a divine influence upon the heart and the reflection in the life'... Unmerited favor will not save you. We are saved by the power of God....

    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

    With the Holy Spirit comes love, help, healing, and many other spiritual gifts. Grace is not unmerited favor. If the power of God does not transform you and cause you to live in a spiritually minded way, you have no salvation.

    Put away the teachings of men and go to the source- Jesus...through His word and Spirit. There is no other way


  9. Who is the father of lies... You said " as opposed to through obedience...and you are wrong:

    Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
    1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    When Jesus said you must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. He wasn't kidding...Grace is the power of God given to us through the teaching and influence of the Holy Spirit.

    You have a complete lack of understanding of scripture because you are still listening to the spirit of the world...Jesus said unless you repent ye shall likewise perish. Again, He wasn't kidding. We are made righteous by His divine power influencing our lives and teaching us to deny ungodliness. Unmerited favor is a false gospel and leads to disobedience:

    Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
    Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
    Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
    Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
    Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
    Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

    Grace is the righteousness of Christ in us..It is power to overcome the Devil and discern good from evil. Grace is the love of God through the Holy Spirit to love even your enemies and bless those who curse you. God giveth grace to the Humble but resisteth the proud:

    Jas 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace
    unto the humble

    If you lack the gifts of grace, it is because you are still to proud to receive them...

  10. Grace is all those things that God says my brother, because if you take every place you read the word "grace" and read it as "favor" it all works, and it makes faith and sense as well. Look at all the Old Covenant times you see the word grace, filling it in what you have defined as grace cannot possibly work, therefore, again, grace = FAVOR.

    The grace of God, the favor of God being sufficient for Paul was not God saying, yeah just learn to live with it Paul, it was God saying, YOU deal with it; what I already poured out through My favor at the cross is sufficient - use it. There is no place in the New Covenant where God ever tells you to pray to Him to get rid of the Devil in your life - you have already been given all power and authority in Heaven and Earth, the same as Jesus. That means the Devil has none - you are to exert that authority over him in faith, speaking God's Word as Truth, resisting him everywhere (finances, family, body, etc) as if you were resisting a person of flesh and blood.

    The righteousness of God, which we already have and are, is not grace, it IS righteousness, and it CAME BY favor.

    You also may not seem to know what Christ is. Christ is the Greek for the Hebrew Messiah, and nothing is lost either way, and in the English Bible, they did us a disservice by leaving Christ in the Greek. In English, without losing anything, Christ = The Anointed One and His anointing, OR The Anointed One, OR the anointing [that came with the Anointed One]. It depends on where it is used.
    To say Christ Jesus is to literally say, "The Anointed One Jesus", or to say Christ, depending on where it is, like say Phil 4:13, I can do all things through Christ WHICH strengthens me. Not Who. WHICH. More modern translations are gutless and out of unbelief they change it to Who, but it is WHICH in the original text.

    I also think you do not realize that the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are 2 separate things:
    The Kingdom of God is His ways and methods (sowing and reaping, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, prosperity, healing, tongues, etc), whereas the Kingdom of Heaven is the physical location God physically resides and where we will all go one day. The original Greek uses two different words. Reading this out and understanding this brings significant revelation on various passages that used to seem to say certain things when in fact they didn't.
    Case in point: when it said that those who practice lifestyles of sin cannot enter the Kingdom of God, it means that because they insist on sinning, they cannot walk in God's ways; it has nothing to do with whether they can be saved, for if any kind of sin disqualified people from getting saved, then no one would be saved, including Paul.
    Walking in God's Kingdom; Jesus is the Door in, and then you're expecting to come up into the fullness of the maturity of the stature of the Anointed One and His anointing.
    We'll leave it there for now.
  11. Rodain....Grace is the power of God:

    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    2 Co 12:9 nd he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

    Grace is also the love of God...

    Grace is help from God....

    Grace is comfort of God...

    Grace is many things...but all gifts of grace come from the Holy Spirit( The kingdom within)

    Grace is established in our hearts:

    Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

    Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

    We can grow in grace because it is power, strength, wisdom, love, and many other gifts:

    2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen

    We are set free from sin by grace, because it is the power of God

    Grace is actual effectual working power from God that we as believers receive through faith. I have been empowered by the Holy Spirit to reject Satan. It is through Christ that I can do all things because grace is power. I can love my enemies because God has given me His love through the Holy Spirit. God has empowered me to do these things- they are not of myself lest I should begin to boast.

    I have spiritual discernment to understand truth from error through grace. Grace is a spiritual commodity to me that I can grow in through faith. Grace is the weapons of my spiritual warfare and my armour. I am sorry that you don't understand the gospel of grace..I wish I could show you, but only God can open the hearts and minds of people...

    You are a perfect example of the falling away...You will ever learn and never be able to come to the knowledge of the truth because of pride. Grace comes through the Holy Spirit... I have said all that I am going to say to you on the subject. If you would like to read more on grace-click the link to a PDF that explains grace, the falling away, the fate of the United States and a refutation of many other false teachings that are out today.

    Click here to read 'The falling away is here' PDF

  12. I, myself, don't care for the labels 'old' or 'new' as they refer to the testaments as they are labels created by man. Created, IMO to mislead and suit man. I tent to refer to them as first and second or next testament.

    A great deal of the second testament is/are quotes from the first.

    A lot can be gleened from the first testament, that will shed understanding to the second testament. Like what a levite, or a nazerite is.

    Also when the second testament mentions scripture, they are refering to the first testament.
  13. Oh, and pardon me Stan. My name is David and welcome to the forums. I hope and pray you will be blessed each and every time you visit.
  14. I also believe it pertinent that the word Christ where Paul uses it there in 2 Cor 12 is "the anointing", meaning, that the power of the anointing may rest upon him. Look it up. Things come by favor, but favor is not all those things, otherwise they would not have names, they would all be called favor. Just like the gifts of the Holy Spirit; the gifts themselves are not the Holy Spirit, but gifts OF the Holy Spirit.
  15. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
    Matthew 5:17 (ESV)
  16. on the contrary. Jesus came to fufill the law not amend it. we no longer place animals for sacrifice for the perfect sacrifice was Christ. so we uphold the law and new testament
  17. That's right guys, AND now, we have the Blessing of the Lord, which is the Blessing of Abraham, as listed in Galatians 3:13-14. Then look over at Genesis 12:1-3 and Genesis 13:1-3 and Genesis 24:35 for how God blessed Abraham. It is what you see in Gen 1:28 and Deut 28:1-13, and then look at Deut 28:15-68 to see what you're redeemed FROM, and as Psalm 107:2 says, SAY you're redeemed from these awful things and that they don't take place in your life, but you actually have the opposite, you have Deut 28:1-13 :) WOW! Hallelujah!
  18. One way of looking at this discussion is thinking about Jesus as our Rabbi. To explain (basic summary)...

    In Jewish tradition, becoming a Rabbi meant taking on certain authority (and responsibility) to guide your followers in interpreting the law. So while the OT law seems fairly specific in many ways to us, if you think about any single element of it, you can ask, "Yeah, but what if...?" And the Rabbi would have authority to answer that "what if" question. For example, the OT commands that the Jewish people could not work on the Sabbath. But what is "work?" How do I ensure I follow this law? So you would take on your rabbi's "yoke," his burden, his interpretation of the law, upon yourself.

    So when the teachers of the law question Jesus on "law" issues, like the sabbath, they are challenging his yoke, or sometimes asking him to clarify his yoke. (Consider, for example, Mark 2:23-28 from this perspective.)

    When I'm reading the Bible, it helps me to think of Jesus as my Rabbi. I take on his yoke. Jesus as our Rabbi shows us how to read the old testament, not replace it.

    Jesus our Rabbi tells us:

    Matt 11:28-30 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
  19. Jesus came to fulfill the law not amend it

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