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Does Scripture Threaten Loss Of Salvation To Pre-tribulationists?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Osterloh, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. 2 Thessalonians 2 (NKJV):
    1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
    and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
    2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter,
    as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
    3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
    for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
    and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition
    ,
    4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped,
    so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.


    The antichrist comes and causes the great tribulation,
    which then causes the falling away (apostacy).

    IMO, this great falling away from the church is the result of
    many pre-tribulation believers NOT being prepared in any way
    for the horrendous persecution that will be coming upon them!

    Surely, many will NOT endure with their faith until the end of their lives.
    Surely, many will NOT refuse to take the mark of the beast to feed their families, etc.

    Scriptures are available upon request regarding …
    the warnings that either one of these two causes loss of salvation!

    Does not all of this happen before Jesus comes to rapture His bride (in verse 1 and elsewhere)?
     
  2. 1Th 5:2, For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    1Th 5:3, For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    1Th 5:4, But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    1Th 5:5, Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    Notice, to the true child of God the "day of the Lord" will not over take them as a thief, because we are not the children of darkness, but the children of the light, and of the day!!
     
    Euphemia likes this.
  3. All I can say right now is ... I believe it is widely accepted/believed that ...
    THE DAY OF THE LORD in Scripture refers to when God pours out His wrath upon mankind.
    This is after the rapture, etc.
    But post-tribbers would say the rapture happens just before God's wrath is poured out.
    It has to do with the very end, just before the 1000 year reign of Christ.
     
  4. There have been many "day of the Lord " in scripture, some past and some future yet to come.

    Acts 2:16-20 talking about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, also known as the "day of the Lord"

    Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
    Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

    2 Peter 3:10 The coming destruction of the earth and it's dissolvement referred as "a thief in the night" also known as the "day of the Lord"

    Lam 2;21 referring to the destruction of Jerusalem. Know as the "day of the Lord"

    Lam 2:22 Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.

    This is clearly talking about the coming of the Lord for his Church, not the end of history in which the judgement of the wicked.

    1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
     
    Major and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
  5. Of course, we are talking about the real end-times DAY OF THE LORD.

    Now, for the shocker ... I believe Peter was mistaken in Acts 2:16-20!
    He didn't have any idea what was going on!
    Jesus had just told them to to wait in the upper room until the Spirit came upon them.
    Peter knew Joel 2 and surmised that it was happening then.
    Was there any of Acts 2:19-20 going on ... before, during, or after the Day of Pentecost?
     
  6. Peter just recited the whole passage. He didn't make any mistake.
     
    Major likes this.
  7. Peter was simply confirming the fulfillment of the prophecy spoken by the prophet Joel which was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
    Remember when the Holy Spirit comes he will show you things to come through visions, and revelations. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit is not just for speaking in tongues, but for how God empowers us to understanding his thoughts and ways. No one knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of man, even so no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. When you are filled with the Spirit of God, you are filled with his thoughts!
     
    Euphemia likes this.
  8. C'mon now, you're much better than this!
    Did anyone see any of this @ any time? ...

    Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
    Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
     
  9. #9 CCW95A, Jul 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
    Ever hear of the Apostle John in the Book of Revelations? How do you think he received all these things?

    Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
     
    Major likes this.
  10. No. The Book says in the last days God will pour out His spirit on ALL flesh. Even babes in Christ will prophecy. If someone is messed up on doctorine about when Christ will return(pre, mid, post) He will set them straight real quick. Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you.
     
  11. Oh yes, him! (I was in his cave on Patmos 3 years ago. Awesome.)
    He experienced wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire,
    and vapour of smoke: the sun was turned into darkness, and the moon into blood ...
    ... but I can't seem to remember exactly when he saw all of this!
     
  12. In 1987, I was in an evangelistic outreach meeting in Taiwan,
    standing out in the crowd next to a mother holding a baby.
    All of a sudden, the baby started talking for a few moments
    in a weird language, which definitely was NOT Chinese!
    I immediately surmised that the baby was speaking in tongues.
    Hey, maybe he/she was prophesying? lol
     
  13. Do you think the prophet who spoke this saw what he was saying? One of the most quoted scripture in the Bible is this...

    1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

    Rarely is the next verse quoted with it which is....

    1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

    The Lord reveals to us his Church the things that are to come before they do. This is normal and not unusual to those who are filled with the Spirit of God. Knowing this and believing it will open the door for God to show you these things. No man can experience anything about God and or His kingdom beyond his faith. We have believed them first before we can experience them. A lot of Christians are waiting to experience them first then believe, which is how the world works.
     
  14. Your point is moot in light of Matt 24. We will all endure suffering. I believe in pre-trib as currently, the fallen angels run from me in Christ. Can you imagine their boss? He will not rise on the third day because I will bind him in Jesus name :giggle:.

    Matt 24:9-Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
     
    Euphemia likes this.
  15. My brother, look again at the verses you quoted..........
    "Let no one deceive you by any means;
    for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
    and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, "


    The "Falling Away" comes first so that the way can be clear for the A/C to come upon the scene.

    You said...........
    "this great falling away from the church is the result of
    many pre-tribulation believers NOT being prepared in any way
    for the horrendous persecution that will be coming upon them!"

    I can not agree with you here. The falling away IS NOT FROM THE CHURCH, but from the Word of God my friend!

    I believe that ALL Pre-tribulation believers are prepared. ME, We are prepared by faith in Christ to hear our name when He calls us to COME UP and meet Him in the air! The Rapture will remove the Bride of Christ and forever more shall we be with the Lord.
     
    Euphemia likes this.
  16. Joel 2:28-32 has not been fulfilled to this day. The day of the Lord will begin with the Great Tribulation Period.

    In the 3 chapter of Joel the Day of the Lord is spoken of 5 times. He speaks about a time of war, judgment on the earth and that has not yet taken place and it was not fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.
     
    Euphemia likes this.
  17. I wish demons ran from me!!! It seems I spend most of my times running from them.
     
    KingJ and Silk say Amen and like this.
  18. Yes, this is so true ... but it takes a lot of discernment to know the true prophets from the false ones.

    Also ... I have worked with a lot of Baptists who are filled with unbelief about certain things,
    and thus are totally spiritually blind in those areas.
     
  19. Either way, some true believers will be so unprepared and devastated that
    they will not endure in the faith until the end of their lives.
    Several Scriptures warn that if this happens, eternal life is lost.

    Those not willing to endure the great tribulation will lose their salvation.
    Those not willing to refuse the mark will lose their salvation.
    You shall see it happen, my friend!
     
  20. My dear friend, you said ...........
    "I have worked with a lot of Baptists who are filled with unbelief about certain things,
    and thus are totally spiritually blind in those areas."


    Do you not know that can be said of every single Christian denomination in existence????
     

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