Does God love everyone equally?

epistemaniac said:
in response to the "God doesn't send people to Hell, they themselves do" type of responses, well this answer just doesn't square with the plain text of Scripture. For instance:

Mat 25:41 ESV Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Daniel chapter 7 also shows the Ancient of Days, not sitting passively by, waiting for people to assign themselves to heaven or Hell, but rather is an active judge, assigning people's eternal destinies... it is God who writes person's names in the Book of Life, not the individuals themselves, unless that is, you can show me where you personally signed the Book yourself ;).

Also, if it was really people themselves who got to assign themselves to their eternity, it seems highly unlikely that many would say "I think I am going to go to Hell for eternity... I hear all sorts of really terrible things about it... remaining forever under God's wrath, it being a place of eternal torment and suffering and the like, but hey, I'm kinda into that stuff and I think Hell is really the place to be."!!!! No.... no one would send themselves to Hell, rather it is a wrathful God who sends people and the rebellious angels to this place of eternal torment because they rejected Christ Jesus. True, whether or not people believe in Jesus is the deciding factor as to where they will be for eternity, but in the end, it will be God who sends people to hell or heaven as the just Judge.

Isa 66:15-16 esv For behold, the Lord will come in fire, and his chariots like the whirlwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (16) For by fire will the Lord enter into judgment, and by his sword, with all flesh; and those slain by the Lord shall be many.

Mat 13:40-42 esv Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. (41) The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, (42) and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Heb 12:23 esv and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

So just as, to use a human analogy, a criminal's unlawful actions are not what sends him or her to prison, rather it is the judge who hands down the sentence, so too is it for God, who deliberately, methodically and justly sends people to their final eternal destinations. People do not send themselves to prison, and people do not send themselves to hell.

blessings
Click to expand...

Who was the fire prepared for? .... "the devil and his angels." Christ Jesus was making a point of distinctive truth. He wishes no one to be lost. 1 Tim. 2:4.

Of course God sends people to the fire, yet who makes the choice? He simply gives one what they desire. The full context of my post explained the same.

You may not have understand the irony, for we do not know each other. Also, paradox is common to scripture. Thanks for the discussion, may we come into the unity of faith.

blessings in Christ to you,
John
 
I agree that the bible says that hell was a place prepared for satan and his angels, but given God's omniscience, He surely knew all along that it was likewise prepared for all those whom He would judge and send to hell. Otherwise we have the somewhat absurd scenario of God creating hell and then, somewhere in time, God smacks His head ands says "hey, I just never could have known that some of these people would reject my Son, and since I have this place originally only prepared for fallen angels, in order to be economic with my time and energy, so I don't have to create another place of torment, why don't I just send rebellious humans to the same place as the fallen angels!?!?!" This is silly of course. For God knew.... ALWAYS knew.... that humans would rebel and would find themselves in the same place as the fallen angels.

Also, since God knows every single person before they were ever born, knows ever single detail about them, including of course whether or not they will be saved or not, its interesting to note that God allows every person to come into existence knowing full well that they will be born and for whatever reason, they will deny Him and end up in hell. If we look at this as like a "which came first, the chicken or the egg", or which comes first.... God's knowledge of who will be saved, or the person choosing in space and time to either honor to son or reject him, then its clear that God's judgment comes first, for it was settled in eternity, before the first person was even born. God would also know ahead of time what it would take to get a certain person to believe savingly... eg what set of circumstances must entail for John believe savingly in Christ, yet God chooses not to bring about those sets of circumstances in every one. Rather, He brings about that set of circumstances in the lives of relatively few people, namely His Bride, or also called "the elect of God". Instead He chooses to bring into existence persons He knows will never savingly believe. This factor also leads me to say that much more so than individuals choice, any single person choosing to go to Hell, its instead more a case of a sovereign eternal God who sends people to hell, far more so than it is the case of people choosing heaven or hell. So its not as if the issue of who will go to heaven and who will go to hell is somehow unsettled or uncertain until a certain person "chooses" heaven or hell. Its not in the least bit uncertain.

As far as God wishing that no one would be lost.... while this is true, it has to be true in the sense that there are 2 types of willing in God. For we know that God is omnipotent, if it were really the case that God, in an absolute sense, did not want anyone to go to hell, He could in fact quite easily make this the case. He is powerful enough to do just this if it was His will. But He doesn't will this in an absolute sense. Then in what sense are these types of statements to be taken? Well they seem to be descriptive of God's moral sense. God takes no pleasure in the fact that some are sent to Hell by Him. But His judgment, His sense of justice demands that all who reject the Son are sent to Hell.

blessings,
Ken
 
epistemaniac said:
I agree that the bible says that hell was a place prepared for satan and his angels, but given God's omniscience, He surely knew all along that it was likewise prepared for all those whom He would judge and send to hell. Otherwise we have the somewhat absurd scenario of God creating hell and then, somewhere in time, God smacks His head ands says "hey, I just never could have known that some of these people would reject my Son, and since I have this place originally only prepared for fallen angels, in order to be economic with my time and energy, so I don't have to create another place of torment, why don't I just send rebellious humans to the same place as the fallen angels!?!?!" This is silly of course. For God knew.... ALWAYS knew.... that humans would rebel and would find themselves in the same place as the fallen angels.

Also, since God knows every single person before they were ever born, knows ever single detail about them, including of course whether or not they will be saved or not, its interesting to note that God allows every person to come into existence knowing full well that they will be born and for whatever reason, they will deny Him and end up in hell. If we look at this as like a "which came first, the chicken or the egg", or which comes first.... God's knowledge of who will be saved, or the person choosing in space and time to either honor to son or reject him, then its clear that God's judgment comes first, for it was settled in eternity, before the first person was even born. God would also know ahead of time what it would take to get a certain person to believe savingly... eg what set of circumstances must entail for John believe savingly in Christ, yet God chooses not to bring about those sets of circumstances in every one. Rather, He brings about that set of circumstances in the lives of relatively few people, namely His Bride, or also called "the elect of God". Instead He chooses to bring into existence persons He knows will never savingly believe. This factor also leads me to say that much more so than individuals choice, any single person choosing to go to Hell, its instead more a case of a sovereign eternal God who sends people to hell, far more so than it is the case of people choosing heaven or hell. So its not as if the issue of who will go to heaven and who will go to hell is somehow unsettled or uncertain until a certain person "chooses" heaven or hell. Its not in the least bit uncertain.

As far as God wishing that no one would be lost.... while this is true, it has to be true in the sense that there are 2 types of willing in God. For we know that God is omnipotent, if it were really the case that God, in an absolute sense, did not want anyone to go to hell, He could in fact quite easily make this the case. He is powerful enough to do just this if it was His will. But He doesn't will this in an absolute sense. Then in what sense are these types of statements to be taken? Well they seem to be descriptive of God's moral sense. God takes no pleasure in the fact that some are sent to Hell by Him. But His judgment, His sense of justice demands that all who reject the Son are sent to Hell.

blessings,
Ken
Click to expand...

Hi Ken,

When Christ said that hell was for prepared for the devil and his angels" there was no "but" added to His divine revelation. The word shows that “whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren.” It is plainly stated in the scriptures that God knows all things. Not only does he know the things that are past, but he sees the future too. “Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.” Acts 15:18. “O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising; thou understandest my thought afar off.” Ps. 139:1, 2.

The death of Christ reconciles us to God. “He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2. His death has secured pardon and life for all. 2 Cor. 5:14-21. “God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” John 3:17.

“He was … the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.” John 1:8, 9. Nothing can keep them from salvation except their own perverse will. Men must take themselves out of the hand of God, in order to be lost. God’s thoughts toward men are thoughts of peace, and not of evil. Jer. 29:11. He ordains peace for us. Isa. 26:12.

It is true that satan’s followers will be “burned up,” Then there will be no more sin or sorrow nor anyone to tempt or trouble the followers of God. Although, we read nothing about men being foreordained to destruction; the only thing that God has predestinated is that men should be conformed to the image of his Son.

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the LORD." Isaiah 55:8 For this reason I believe no man or body of men is at liberty to put any construction on the word of God, or to change it, or to hold or to teach that His word means anything different from exactly what it says.

I believe we are to worship God not as "we" think Him to be, but as He is according to His divine revelation. I believe the Word should not be taken in our own spirit, but in the Spirit of God. However, this does not mean we will not have larger and larger ideas according to his Spirit.


blessings in Christ,
John
 
God's love for all!

A quote received through my email today:

When the angel sang his chorus over the hills of Bethlehem when Christ was born, that was his message: “Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord” (Luke 2:10, KJV).

(1) It’s good news. (2) It brings “great joy.” Not a trace of sadness in it! (3) It’s for “all people,” a blessing universal. (4) It announces a gift that Christ gives to “all people.” (5) Paul explains it in Romans 5: he says five times that it is “a free gift” for the same “all who “sinned,” reversing that “condemnation” that the fallen Adam brought on the entire human race (vss. 15-18). Deliverance from all addictions!The true story of the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem is great good news! It will finally be told with “great power” to “lighten the earth with glory,” and it will prepare all who believe with all their hearts; it will prepare them for meeting Jesus when He returns (Rev. 14:1-5). That time is now. End Quote

blessings in Christ
 
Does God Love All of Us equally?

NO. The reason for that is that only a computer without feelings could love all equally. God is very much a person and has emotions and feelings. To believe that he could love Adolph Hitler and Billy Graham equally is ludicrous and takes the personhood away from God.
 
GodsChild08 said:
NO. The reason for that is that only a computer without feelings could love all equally. God is very much a person and has emotions and feelings. To believe that he could love Adolph Hitler and Billy Graham equally is ludicrous and takes the personhood away from God.
Click to expand...

Hi,

A computer does not love at all. .... However, “God is love.” The text does not say "God has love," in certain degrees, but that He is love. It is not simply that he has love in large measure for his creatures, but he is love. He is the embodiment of love. He is love itself; that is His very nature. There is "no variableness" in God. He is not a respecter of persons. James 1:17 and Acts 10:34.

“All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” and “God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Why did Christ die? He himself answers: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16. Christ Jesus does not say He loved others more and others less. He loves the world, in spite of the fact the whole world is charged with the murder of the Son of God. For the wages of sin is death, Christ taking the curse for us.

We naturally love those who are lovable, and think we can’t be expected to love those who are hateful, and who hate us; but God loves the hateful, and those who hate Him. “If ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even the publicans the same?” “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” Matt. 5:46, 48.

Christ Jesus has "perfect love" for all, yes, even His enemies.


blessings in Christ,
John
 
^^^ Somewhere in there, I believe you have hit on a key difference between "true Love" and "perfect love".
 
And we know that God hates some. Surely those He hates He does not love- that would be confusion.
 
Bo - to human minds, yeah. But God is infinite in mind and reasoning. What's impossible for us alone is possible with our God.

But I see what you're saying.

I think God loves all of us equally. It's whether or not we decide to return that love to Him that decides on how loved we believe we are.
 
Perhaps- you know I am certainly a strong believer in the foreknowledge of God and how He plans our lives accordingly. But one must look carefully at the following:
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

If it fits His plan He turns all the way He wants.
 
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