Doctrine Matters!

[Bro.Benjie]

Doctrines are policies or ways to followfrom what "is written" in the Holy Bible.
But the trouble is different people have different interpretations of what "is written."

This caused the division of CHRISTIANITY into sects and denominations.
Therefore, what is the TRUTH?

Let ALONE God expound on His words "through His very words," and this is what is to be regarded as "divine revelation."

Example, the very IDENTITY of Jesus Christ is foremost of these doctrines! Why do we hear people say:

* Some say, "Jesus Christ is only a man and not God."
* Others say, "Jesus Christ is only a Mighty God for there is a supreme or Almighty God."
* Still others say "Jesus Christ is the name of the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT."
* Many say, "Jesus Christ is both God and man, and He is the SECOND PERSON of the Trinity."

You were right to say that let God expound on His words as what in the book of II Tim 3:16 says "all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

Also the bible says that God is true, but every man is a liar. But we must also realize that if God wanted to deal with His people He used man. And so we just only need to know the right fellowship because there is only one true Church or the body of Christ. I do believe that Jesus will not return into various churches but instead he will go back on His own church.

 

[mistmann]

You were right to say that let God expound on His words as what in the book of II Tim 3:16 says "all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

Also the bible says that God is true, but every man is a liar. But we must also realize that if God wanted to deal with His people He used man. And so we just only need to know the right fellowship because there is only one true Church or the body of Christ. I do believe that Jesus will not return into various churches but instead he will go back on His own church.

Not sure what you are calling "His own church" but it is important to understand what the Spirit says to the seven churches of Revelation and it is this. The promises are not to the churches but to the INDIVIDUALS who endure in the faith and doctrine of CHRIST as ORIGINALLY delivered through HIS 12 + 1 personally appointed Apostles and the OT scriptures. The Spirit say churches can (and did even then) go horribly wrong but salvation is through CHRIST alone.

No denomination on Earth can save us, only Christ who is in Heaven. JESUS knows who are in His church and who are not, and many who cry "Lord, Lord" and who have the outwardly appearance of godliness and churchgoers, JESUS will disown, and many THEY think are not in Christ, Jesus will call His own.

What our denomination says is not important - what Jesus says is. I FELLOWSHIP with a church but I do not BELONG to a church. I BELONG to Christ Jesus. In short, I follow Christ and HIS teachings and commands, not those of an earthly church or denomination NONE of which is "THE Church of Jesus Christ".

 

[Bro.Benjie]

Not sure what you are calling "His own church" but it is important to understand what the Spirit says to the seven churches of Revelation and it is this. The promises are not to the churches but to the INDIVIDUALS who endure in the faith and doctrine of CHRIST as ORIGINALLY delivered through HIS 12 + 1 personally appointed Apostles and the OT scriptures. The Spirit say churches can (and did even then) go horribly wrong but salvation is through CHRIST alone.

No denomination on Earth can save us, only Christ who is in Heaven. JESUS knows who are in His church and who are not, and many who cry "Lord, Lord" and who have the outwardly appearance of godliness and churchgoers, JESUS will disown, and many THEY think are not in Christ, Jesus will call His own.

What our denomination says is not important - what Jesus says is. I FELLOWSHIP with a church but I do not BELONG to a church. I BELONG to Christ Jesus. In short, I follow Christ and HIS teachings and commands, not those of an earthly church or denomination NONE of which is "THE Church of Jesus Christ".

God indeed deals individually on the Gentiles unlike to the Israel as nations. Don't take it literally the meaning of church it means from the word ekklesia (called out or assembly). Religion cannot really save us but there is a right fellowship. I don't think God will return in all churches where there is a different spirit. But as I have said there is a right fellowship and you to knows that other wise you will just go alone in serving God which is not biblical.

 

[mistmann]

God indeed deals individually on the Gentiles unlike to the Israel as nations. Don't take it literally the meaning of church it means from the word ekklesia (called out or assembly). Religion cannot really save us but there is a right fellowship. I don't think God will return in all churches where there is a different spirit. But as I have said there is a right fellowship and you to knows that other wise you will just go alone in serving God which is not biblical.

The keyword here is FELLOWship for we are ALL a Royal Priesthood, a Holy nation EACH with our own direct relationship with the Lord through Jesus Himself. Our relationship with the Lord is not through a church or other believers but a direct one-on-one relationship which is something many churches do not quite grasp. They have not understood the full implication of what Jesus is saying to us His disciples when He said:-

"Matt 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, .... 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."

I am the servant of but ONE master, the pupil of but ONE teacher, the son of but ONE Father and over me is but ONE head of the church of which I am part.

But when I want to know if I am hanging around in the right orchard I check out the fruit that is hanging off the other trees!!

 

[mistmann]

God indeed deals individually on the Gentiles unlike to the Israel as nations.

Do not be misled, the Lord deals individually with the Israelites also. Being born an Israelii is no guarantee of salvation. Look how many have and will perish. The Lord is clear only a REMNANT of Israel will be saved. Remember what The Lord said to Elijah:-

1 Kings 19:17 "And it shall come to pass, that him (of Israel) that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay. 18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him."

Not only does the Lord deal individually even with the Israelites but in His kingdom there is no Jew or Gentile. ALL are the same in Christ, there is no difference.

 

[Bro.Benjie]

Thanks for the reminders.
But I am not misled because I really know that God will deal the Israel as a nation but it doesn't mean that all Israel will be save.
As it is clearly says in the book of revelation about what will happen on the Israel during tribulation period.

 

[mistmann]

Thanks for the reminders.
But I am not misled because I really know that God will deal the Israel as a nation but it doesn't mean that all Israel will be save.
As it is clearly says in the book of revelation about what will happen on the Israel during tribulation period.

But understand that "Israel" to the Lord is not an earthly nation but a heavenly one. As Paul said:-

Rom 2:28 " For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

and elsewhere:-

Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

We must understand that the grafting of the gentile branches is into ISRAEL. That the phrase "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" refers to them coming in - to Israel. The King of all followers of Christ is also the King who sits on the throne of David - as the King of Israel.

Rom 11:17 " And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou (gentiles), being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

 

[Bro.Benjie]

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Thanks. I strongly agree with this because it is in the bible as Jesus Christ is the true vine and that grace is just came to us (though I do believe that it is already on God's plan and this the mystery of God the dispensation of grace age) that is why Paul says by the grace of God I am what I am. As it is written the Lord will deal on Israel once rapture takes place and He will send to witnesses with the spirit of Moises and Elijah the prophet and will prophesy for 3 1/2 years and after that tribulation takes place.

 

[mistmann]

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Thanks. I strongly agree with this because it is in the bible as Jesus Christ is the true vine and that grace is just came to us (though I do believe that it is already on God's plan and this the mystery of God the dispensation of grace age) that is why Paul says by the grace of God I am what I am. As it is written the Lord will deal on Israel once rapture takes place and He will send to witnesses with the spirit of Moises and Elijah the prophet and will prophesy for 3 1/2 years and after that tribulation takes place.

You will probably find that I have a very different view of what the Bible is telling us about the events of the last days but that is a whole new thread right there. Suffice here to simply note only that whilst we may agree on one point chances are there are many others we will not.

 

[Bro.Benjie]

You will probably find that I have a very different view of what the Bible is telling us about the events of the last days but that is a whole new thread right there. Suffice here to simply note only that whilst we may agree on one point chances are there are many others we will not.

I know we have a lots of differences when it comes to the bible doctrines but that's okay with me because that is one reason why I join this forum to know what are other Christians belief not to say that I am right and you are wrong but I do respect your stand and hope you too.

 

[fil3232003]

I know we have a lots of differences when it comes to the bible doctrines but that's okay with me because that is one reason why I join this forum to know what are other Christians belief not to say that I am right and you are wrong but I do respect your stand and hope you too.

For me, I joined this Forum in order to find God's "intended message" from the topic given in the Thread.

 

[Bro.Benjie]

For me, I joined this Forum in order to find God's "intended message" from the topic given in the Thread.

It's good that you have that kind desire. Just be careful because it's too hard to discern what was God true message because there are lots of doctrines now. I suggest that you always rely to the bible not just by human ideas. Any message even if it is in a nicest way if it is not inline with the Word of God, we cannot say that it is right.

"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him."
James 1:5

 

[Bro.Benjie]

You will probably find that I have a very different view of what the Bible is telling us about the events of the last days but that is a whole new thread right there. Suffice here to simply note only that whilst we may agree on one point chances are there are many others we will not.

I will look for you on the other thread because I really want to know what others belief.

 

[mistmann]

I will look for you on the other thread because I really want to know what others belief.

Sorry, I didn't mean there was another thread going, merely that this thread was probably not the place to have what would undoubtedly be an involved and probably complex discussion on the matter. I only wished to point out (to anybody new in the faith mainly) that although you mentioned these other things in a way (probably not intentionally) that seemed to suggest they were "matter-of-fact" and already well established, that they are, in fact, merely one particular school of thought and belief among many.

 

[Bro.Benjie]

I understand. That's nice to know your intentions.