Doctrinal Authority

[Major]

I suppose it is what you call a "true Christian "
It was to Christians that Paul spoke too as being "yet carnal" Who were still in need of being given the milk of the Word who he judged should have been teachers of the milk.
For all Christians should be able to teach others and instruct them in the way of righteousness and to "make disciples of all men"
Now a true BORN child of God ;born again by the Word and the Spirit of God . Have been regenerated or become a new creation in their SPIRIT .
Their BODIES have been redeemed also "ready to be revealed"
But the MIND has to be renewed and made conformable to the Word of God which in turn transforms the life LIVED .

The great problem is that in the main it appears that according to Pauls list as to what the milk is (Hebrews) those subjects are the only things preached and taught on .Save the sensational antichrist and the rapture and the rest is taken up in defending error rather than contending for "THE faith that was once and for all delivered to the saints"
In fact because of the lack of teaching of the MEAT of the Word error and the leven of the pharaseses are beign propagated and accepted .Even in this Forum as in others as well of course in the church in general .

Moreover for peace sake and because of the above we have reduced the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the getting out of Egypt or to be BORNagain.
It took them only 40 DAYS to reach the banks of Jordan and the border of the promised land .
Paul warns the church not to be like them "who entered not in because of unbelief"
Unbelief in God is not just simply not believing God .It also includes believing another message .
The 10 false messengers saw with the natural eye and with a carnal mind and forgot the last 40 DAYS as if they had never occurred .
and by their false reasoning and false perceptions they sowed fear and doubt in the minds and hearts of Gods people who the vast majority (save TWO) were of the same opinion .
Who then believed their message .
Rather than the message of the two faithful witnesses who saw exactly the same things but in the true light of what God HAD DONE already . Who was with them in the present and what He had promised for the future .

in Christ

Gerald

My brother you are correct. I have for many years taught soul winning classes to believers. I have used the "Roman Road" and in the past 15 years used also the "Faith" method.

When I ask people after we have finished the classes, what was the reason behind them not being a soul winner, almost 100% say the say thing....................
"I was afraid that I would say something wrong to the person and cause them to be lost forever".

Can I say to all of you out there that if you will talk about JESUS and what He is and has done for you, the Holy Spirit will put the right words in your mind and you will never go wrong.

 

[CCW95A]

When we think that it was "Jesus" who brought salvation to man, we must also realize Jesus was not alone in his quest to bring salvation to mankind. It was the Father in Him that did all works, and he was anointed by the Holy Spirit that broke every yoke over disease, sickness, and death. So we see God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were all at work in unity in bringing salvation to man. Not only did God bring about our salvation, he also is at work teaching and perfecting his children to maturity. As Jesus said.....

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

The order in which God works in teaching his children is #1: you hear the Father and he teaches you something. #2 You then go to the Word of God for confirmation. #3 the Holy Spirit bears wittiness to the truth. If we do not have all three witness's, then we do not have the truth, but some man made doctrine that does nothing in changing hearts. The Word of God does not speak until the Father speaks. What does this mean? With out having a intimate one on one relationship with God the Father through prayer we will never know the truth.!!

 

[By Faith]

Now, IMO-----you know that if you are saved, you got saved by trusting Jesus Christ and his blood shed at Calvary for your sins. The BIG QUESTION, then is, am I saved forever???

The answer to that is a resounding YES! You will understand that when you realize that DOCTRINE for the church is found in the epistles of Paul the Apostle to the GENTILES. You Cannot lose your salvation!!

Romans 11:13.............
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles."

Paul had a distinct message for the church. He got that message AFTER the resurrection of Christ by special revelation.

Galatians 1:11 .......
"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

So, can you lose your salvation? If we take Paul's word for it, and he wrote most of the New Testament, No.

I use to Pastor a morning server and the night service had a different teacher. This other teacher taught you could "Loose" your being saved and born again status and he went through scriptures and a list of things that could doom you to the fires of Hell.

My day folk would go to the night service and after that, I get lots of folks asking me questions and having fear of "Loosing" their born again status. I hate coming up with counter messages, but lots of folks had gotten concerned that they just might not be saved now.

You use the term Loose as in wake up one day, and a letter from heaven is just sitting there saying, sorry, you have screwed up far to much and you are no longer a member.

I am against the idea that we can stop being a child of God, by being bad and disobedient. Even natural children are your children no matter how they act. How much better a Father than God?

I can not cross the line into Calvinism where we never have a choice though. One would think a sane person would never leave Jesus, and if someone did want to leave Jesus, they must be out of their mind and not held accountable for it anyway.

One man I did meet though, He worked for Billy Ghrahm in the 70's, had spoken tongues and ministered. Something happened with the wife, but he got mad at God over it. He could quote scriptures like I have never seen someone do, whole chapters even. I suspect He had help, and it was not from God.

He turned to Devil Worship, and many came by to ask him to come back to Jesus and he told them no.

Many others came that God sent, He said No. One told him the Lord is not sending anymore, you will have made your choice. He told them good, then God won't bother me anymore.

I went to pray for him, if there is breath there is hope and the Lord said to me real clear........ "NO, Don't, He has made up his mind, and is lost."

Now I was just hearing God really being just a couple years old in the Lord, but it was very strong inside me.......... NO.

That confused me, but I did not pray for him.

Now, I am not building a doctrine on experiences, and not dragging out tons of scriptures to prove my experience.

I don't think there are absolutes when it comes to a mans own heart toward God. We are told to submit ourselves, and I still believe if someone wants to leave, knowing full well what they are leaving, then God is not holding them prisoner, despite what is good for them.

I can make a good argument for eternal Salvation even Jesus said depart from me workers of iniquity, I know you not. They have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Well, Kingdom is just a Greek Female noun meaning to rule over. It's not a place, So Jesus could have been saying depart, you wil not share in my rule in Heaven........ Does not mean they did not make it though.

There are lots of things you can do with languages as you know. Paul said their works are burned up by fire, but still saved as if by fire.

Major, you might want to look into something called "Outter Darkness"

I have not fully examined it, but It's not the Lake of fire, Not Sheol/hades Not Gehennah (a place in Hinnom south of the city and still there today)

It's ony mentented in Matt, and everytime it's used, it's used in a sense of a place of lost reward. Not hell, but those who have no reward.

anyway.

 

[By Faith]

While all of what you said is pretty much true, we must remember that we will live in a body of flesh that is prone to sin because we are SINNERS even after we have been saved. The OLD NATURE never dies brother! We have it until we receive glorified bodies.

There is no such thing as SINLESS PERFECTION while we live in a body which is under the curse of sin and depravity.

Ah, as the flesh will pull to do bad things and over eat, it can be made subject to the spirit man through the Holy Spirit and the Old man can be kept locked in the box. It's like a weight we have to drag around and make sure He don't get out.

 

[Major]

Ah, as the flesh will pull to do bad things and over eat, it can be made subject to the spirit man through the Holy Spirit and the Old man can be kept locked in the box. It's like a weight we have to drag around and make sure He don't get out.

Now are you totally confident that the Old Sin Nature can be controlled and made subject to our thinking and actions????

Romans 7:20 seems to be saying something else...........
"Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

Paul said that Sin lives in us. There is a law of sin at work in the members of my body, Paul states.

Where did this evil force come from? From our parents and ancestors, probably, along with what we ourselves picked up along the way.

Suffice to say there are urges to sin present in the members of our body.

Jeremiah 17:9 seems to agree with Paul............
"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"

Romans 7:23.............
"But I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members."

The key here to understanding IMO is that we grasp the fact that a Christian can and does sin after being saved BUT he does not stay in that sin.

We don’t lose our sin nature once we receive Christ. The Bible says that sin remains in us and that a struggle with that old nature will continue as long as we are in this world. But we have help in the battle—divine help. The Spirit of God takes up residence in each believer and supplies the power we need to overcome the pull of the sin nature within us.

1 John 3:9........
“No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God"..

 

[Major]

I use to Pastor a morning server and the night service had a different teacher. This other teacher taught you could "Loose" your being saved and born again status and he went through scriptures and a list of things that could doom you to the fires of Hell.

My day folk would go to the night service and after that, I get lots of folks asking me questions and having fear of "Loosing" their born again status. I hate coming up with counter messages, but lots of folks had gotten concerned that they just might not be saved now.

You use the term Loose as in wake up one day, and a letter from heaven is just sitting there saying, sorry, you have screwed up far to much and you are no longer a member.

I am against the idea that we can stop being a child of God, by being bad and disobedient. Even natural children are your children no matter how they act. How much better a Father than God?

I can not cross the line into Calvinism where we never have a choice though. One would think a sane person would never leave Jesus, and if someone did want to leave Jesus, they must be out of their mind and not held accountable for it anyway.

One man I did meet though, He worked for Billy Ghrahm in the 70's, had spoken tongues and ministered. Something happened with the wife, but he got mad at God over it. He could quote scriptures like I have never seen someone do, whole chapters even. I suspect He had help, and it was not from God.

He turned to Devil Worship, and many came by to ask him to come back to Jesus and he told them no.

Many others came that God sent, He said No. One told him the Lord is not sending anymore, you will have made your choice. He told them good, then God won't bother me anymore.

I went to pray for him, if there is breath there is hope and the Lord said to me real clear........ "NO, Don't, He has made up his mind, and is lost."

Now I was just hearing God really being just a couple years old in the Lord, but it was very strong inside me.......... NO.

That confused me, but I did not pray for him.

Now, I am not building a doctrine on experiences, and not dragging out tons of scriptures to prove my experience.

I don't think there are absolutes when it comes to a mans own heart toward God. We are told to submit ourselves, and I still believe if someone wants to leave, knowing full well what they are leaving, then God is not holding them prisoner, despite what is good for them.

I can make a good argument for eternal Salvation even Jesus said depart from me workers of iniquity, I know you not. They have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Well, Kingdom is just a Greek Female noun meaning to rule over. It's not a place, So Jesus could have been saying depart, you wil not share in my rule in Heaven........ Does not mean they did not make it though.

There are lots of things you can do with languages as you know. Paul said their works are burned up by fire, but still saved as if by fire.

Major, you might want to look into something called "Outter Darkness"

I have not fully examined it, but It's not the Lake of fire, Not Sheol/hades Not Gehennah (a place in Hinnom south of the city and still there today)

It's ony mentented in Matt, and everytime it's used, it's used in a sense of a place of lost reward. Not hell, but those who have no reward.

anyway.

My brother.....always remember that God is not the God of confusion. Now, I want you to consider something very important. How can we loose something that we did not work for, pay or do anything to get. We are saved as a GIFT of God because of His love and GRACE in action and the only way we could loose it is for Him to take it back. Now, that being the case, do you know of a Bible verse which tells us that God would do such a thing ONCE we have come to Him by the Lord Jesus?

"The gift of God is eternal life" (Rom. 6:23).

How can eternal life be anything else but eternal? It cannot be lost, forfeited, or sinned away, for "the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" (Rom. 11:29).
Eternal life once given is an everlasting gift. He who gave has pledged His word not to recall it.

A Christian, when he sins, does not forfeit the life he has, but he mars the enjoyment of it. The life is God's free gift; it is unfettered by conditions and never withdrawn. "Have everlasting life" is the Lord's repeated declaration to all who believe on His name (John 3:15-16,36; 5:24). And this "life is hidden with Christ in God" (Col. 3:3). How then can it be lost? It is not in our hands to keep or to lose. Our "life is in His Son" (1 John 5:11). "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13). -
(See more at: http://www.backtothebible.org/is-my...-can-I-lose-my-salvation#sthash.IhfFQhdK.dpuf).

As a matter of fact I had looked into the phrase "Outer Darkness" several years ago when someone asked me about it.

It is found only in Matthew 22:13. There Jesus tells of a “wedding crasher”, a man in the wedding hall was discovered to have entered the feast without authorization. Jesus says that the king, the master of the feast, issued a dire command concerning the interloper:.........
“Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness” (ESV).

Context of the whole comment tells us that Jesus uses the term “outer darkness” to describe a condition of great sorrow, loss and woe. It stands in vivid contrast to the great, wonderful and joyous celebration attended by those who accepted the king’s invitation. Interpreting the wedding feast as heaven, the “outer darkness” then must be the place of eternal punishment. Most Bible scholars I have read and studied agree that the phrase “outer darkness” refers to hell or, more properly, the lake of fire.

The outer darkness that Jesus speaks of is called “blackest darkness” in Jude 13. Again, a place of judgment is the obvious meaning, since it is reserved for “godless men” as he tells us in verse 4.

Perhaps the place of judgment is pictured as “dark” because of the absence of God’s cheering presence.

Psalms 104:29..................
“When you hide your face, they are terrified”.

1 John 1:5 God is called LIGHT and if He takes away His blessing only darkness is left.

Then when all the context is considered we can see that the outer darkness of judgment is accompanied by “weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The “weeping” describes an inner pain of the heart, mind, and soul. The word in the original denotes a bewailing or lamentation by beating the breast in an expression of immense sorrow. The “gnashing of teeth” describes an outward pain of the body. Taken together, the weeping and gnashing of teeth says hell is a place of indescribable spiritual agony and unending physical pain.

 

[By Faith]

My brother.....always remember that God is not the God of confusion. Now, I want you to consider something very important. How can we loose something that we did not work for, pay or do anything to get. We are saved as a GIFT of God because of His love and GRACE in action and the only way we could loose it is for Him to take it back. Now, that being the case, do you know of a Bible verse which tells us that God would do such a thing ONCE we have come to Him by the Lord Jesus?

"The gift of God is eternal life" (Rom. 6:23).

How can eternal life be anything else but eternal? It cannot be lost, forfeited, or sinned away, for "the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" (Rom. 11:29).
Eternal life once given is an everlasting gift. He who gave has pledged His word not to recall it.

A Christian, when he sins, does not forfeit the life he has, but he mars the enjoyment of it. The life is God's free gift; it is unfettered by conditions and never withdrawn. "Have everlasting life" is the Lord's repeated declaration to all who believe on His name (John 3:15-16,36; 5:24). And this "life is hidden with Christ in God" (Col. 3:3). How then can it be lost? It is not in our hands to keep or to lose. Our "life is in His Son" (1 John 5:11). "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13). -
(See more at: http://www.backtothebible.org/is-my...-can-I-lose-my-salvation#sthash.IhfFQhdK.dpuf).

As a matter of fact I had looked into the phrase "Outer Darkness" several years ago when someone asked me about it.

It is found only in Matthew 22:13. There Jesus tells of a “wedding crasher”, a man in the wedding hall was discovered to have entered the feast without authorization. Jesus says that the king, the master of the feast, issued a dire command concerning the interloper:.........
“Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness” (ESV).

Context of the whole comment tells us that Jesus uses the term “outer darkness” to describe a condition of great sorrow, loss and woe. It stands in vivid contrast to the great, wonderful and joyous celebration attended by those who accepted the king’s invitation. Interpreting the wedding feast as heaven, the “outer darkness” then must be the place of eternal punishment. Most Bible scholars I have read and studied agree that the phrase “outer darkness” refers to hell or, more properly, the lake of fire.

The outer darkness that Jesus speaks of is called “blackest darkness” in Jude 13. Again, a place of judgment is the obvious meaning, since it is reserved for “godless men” as he tells us in verse 4.

Perhaps the place of judgment is pictured as “dark” because of the absence of God’s cheering presence.

Psalms 104:29..................
“When you hide your face, they are terrified”.

1 John 1:5 God is called LIGHT and if He takes away His blessing only darkness is left.

Then when all the context is considered we can see that the outer darkness of judgment is accompanied by “weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The “weeping” describes an inner pain of the heart, mind, and soul. The word in the original denotes a bewailing or lamentation by beating the breast in an expression of immense sorrow. The “gnashing of teeth” describes an outward pain of the body. Taken together, the weeping and gnashing of teeth says hell is a place of indescribable spiritual agony and unending physical pain.

Not to make this Long.......... I will have to study outer Darkness more. I just brought it up. It's not Hell, Gehanna, or lake of fire. it's something else.

Paul did say that He does things He does not want to do, the death and carnal body in him........ but if you keep reading Paul goes on to say.

Rom 8:1-2 kjva 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Gal 5:16-17 kjva 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Paul says the same thing in Galatians.......... The fix for the flesh, is walk after the Spirit (spirit) not the things of the flesh. IN other words, stay filled with the Holy Spirit, singing pslams and meldoies to the Lord. (Praying in tongues also helps greatly)

So there is a fix for the old man.

Being born again is a free gift, as with all the other Gifts of God........... Job was wrong, God does not give or take away.

There is only 3 places in scripture though where after knowing the truth, walking in the power to come, and tasting the goodness of God that if you leave to serve another god like Allah there is no way for "US" to bring that person back.

Scripture does not say they can't come back, it says we can't get them back.

John warned just like in Hebrews to not pray for someone who sinned a sin unto death. There is ONE SIN unto death, do no pray for that. Just ONE.

IF we Sin willfully................ ONE SIN.

John goes on to warn........... Stay away from Idols.

 

[Major]

Not to make this Long.......... I will have to study outer Darkness more. I just brought it up. It's not Hell, Gehanna, or lake of fire. it's something else.

Paul did say that He does things He does not want to do, the death and carnal body in him........ but if you keep reading Paul goes on to say.

Rom 8:1-2 kjva 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Gal 5:16-17 kjva 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Paul says the same thing in Galatians.......... The fix for the flesh, is walk after the Spirit (spirit) not the things of the flesh. IN other words, stay filled with the Holy Spirit, singing pslams and meldoies to the Lord. (Praying in tongues also helps greatly)

So there is a fix for the old man.

Being born again is a free gift, as with all the other Gifts of God........... Job was wrong, God does not give or take away.

There is only 3 places in scripture though where after knowing the truth, walking in the power to come, and tasting the goodness of God that if you leave to serve another god like Allah there is no way for "US" to bring that person back.

Scripture does not say they can't come back, it says we can't get them back.

John warned just like in Hebrews to not pray for someone who sinned a sin unto death. There is ONE SIN unto death, do no pray for that. Just ONE.

IF we Sin willfully................ ONE SIN.

John goes on to warn........... Stay away from Idols.

ONE Sin????

Then explain David my friend. Is there a sin that he DID NOT commit yet god said he was a man after God's own heart.

Paul was a great sinner. He even killed the saints and I am one who believes he threw the 1st rock at Stephen.

How about YOU??? Did you commit only ONE sin and yet God forgave you.

I believe you need to give this some more thought.

 

[By Faith]

ONE Sin????

Then explain David my friend. Is there a sin that he DID NOT commit yet god said he was a man after God's own heart.

Paul was a great sinner. He even killed the saints and I am one who believes he threw the 1st rock at Stephen.

How about YOU??? Did you commit only ONE sin and yet God forgave you.

I believe you need to give this some more thought.

This is one reasons I don't like doctrines. They get in the way and make things Absoutes.

Heb 10:26-29 kjva 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Read this carefully Major..............

1) One sin

2) Can only be commited once a persons has the knowledge of the truth. Unsaved have zero knowledge.

3) Only judgement and fire from God is the result of this one sin.

4) The sin was counting the blood covenant by which that person was santified by a unhoy thing. The Person was saved, but left Jesus for another god. IN Hebrews going back to Judiasm was a issue.

1Jn 5:16-17 kjva 16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Throwing rocks at Stephan is bad and acts of unrighteousness. There is ONE SIN though that is not to be prayed for. Same one mentioned in Hebrews.

John Mentions it at the end. He does not warn not to throw rocks, or commit adultery. He does not mention lying or drinking. He does not mention muder, or coveting. He Mentions One warning.

1Jn 5:21 kjva Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

There is a sin unto death, a sin under judgement and fire, a sin that is mentioned 3 times in scriptures. A sin we can't do anything to bring them back, John said don't even pray for that.

 

[GBzone]

My brother you are correct. I have for many years taught soul winning classes to believers. I have used the "Roman Road" and in the past 15 years used also the "Faith" method.

When I ask people after we have finished the classes, what was the reason behind them not being a soul winner, almost 100% say the say thing....................
"I was afraid that I would say something wrong to the person and cause them to be lost forever".

Can I say to all of you out there that if you will talk about JESUS and what He is and has done for you, the Holy Spirit will put the right words in your mind and you will never go wrong.

If we lead any one to Christ .It is by the way that he led us . It is not therefore some strange and inexplicable thing we know not of .
Jesus said" ye shall be my witnesses " after that the Holy Spirit has come .
A witness speaks of what they have seen and heard .
The moon bares witness that in the darkest night the sun still shines and there is coming a perfect day and as long as the relationship to the Son is kept in good order as it were and the relationship with the world is also upheld in it but not of it .
Then seated with the sun in heavenly places the moon can do no other than speak and bare witness to the Sun.

The Roman way is the only way really . First the conviction of sin by the law then the turning to Christ in repentance .

in Christ
gerald

 

[GBzone]

This is one reasons I don't like doctrines. They get in the way and make things Absoutes.

Heb 10:26-29 kjva 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Read this carefully Major..............

1) One sin

2) Can only be commited once a persons has the knowledge of the truth. Unsaved have zero knowledge.

3) Only judgement and fire from God is the result of this one sin.

4) The sin was counting the blood covenant by which that person was santified by a unhoy thing. The Person was saved, but left Jesus for another god. IN Hebrews going back to Judiasm was a issue.

1Jn 5:16-17 kjva 16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Throwing rocks at Stephan is bad and acts of unrighteousness. There is ONE SIN though that is not to be prayed for. Same one mentioned in Hebrews.

John Mentions it at the end. He does not warn not to throw rocks, or commit adultery. He does not mention lying or drinking. He does not mention muder, or coveting. He Mentions One warning.

1Jn 5:21 kjva Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

There is a sin unto death, a sin under judgement and fire, a sin that is mentioned 3 times in scriptures. A sin we can't do anything to bring them back, John said don't even pray for that.

The true good and sound doctrines of God and scripture are the BONES of the body .They are therefore essential . and if they "get in the way" then you are trying to put error where truth should be.
and God is he not absolute?
There are some very fundamental and absolute truths you ignore violate and deny at your peril.

in Christ
gerald

 

[By Faith]

The true good and sound doctrines of God and scripture are the BONES of the body .They are therefore essential . and if they "get in the way" then you are trying to put error where truth should be.
and God is he not absolute?
There are some very fundamental and absolute truths you ignore violate and deny at your peril.

in Christ
gerald

Being unable to reead can also get you in trouble. I never Said God is not absoulte.............. But claiming I did, shows that I am not the one in Peril.

 

[Major]

This is one reasons I don't like doctrines. They get in the way and make things Absoutes.

Heb 10:26-29 kjva 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Read this carefully Major..............

1) One sin

2) Can only be commited once a persons has the knowledge of the truth. Unsaved have zero knowledge.

3) Only judgement and fire from God is the result of this one sin.

4) The sin was counting the blood covenant by which that person was santified by a unhoy thing. The Person was saved, but left Jesus for another god. IN Hebrews going back to Judiasm was a issue.

1Jn 5:16-17 kjva 16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Throwing rocks at Stephan is bad and acts of unrighteousness. There is ONE SIN though that is not to be prayed for. Same one mentioned in Hebrews.

John Mentions it at the end. He does not warn not to throw rocks, or commit adultery. He does not mention lying or drinking. He does not mention muder, or coveting. He Mentions One warning.

1Jn 5:21 kjva Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

There is a sin unto death, a sin under judgement and fire, a sin that is mentioned 3 times in scriptures. A sin we can't do anything to bring them back, John said don't even pray for that.

I do not see the word "ONE" in the verses you posted from Hebrews my brother. Then the other thing here is that the Heb. 10:26 verses simply do not apply to your thinking that they do.

They were given as a warning to the HEBREW believers because many of them were turning from Christ and wanting to go back to the Temple worship and make sacrifices and keep the law as a way of being saved. By doing so they made the cross of Christ ineffective and meaningless. So the phrase .......
"If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth", means that to go on making sacrifices at the temple was to willfully sin. That being the case.........there would be no other way to come to God because they had in effect rejected Christ.

As for 1 John 5:16-17 and the "Sin unto death".

The teaching there is referring to PHYSICAL death and there is no referrance at all to spiritual death because the chaild of God has eternal life. John is saying that there is a sin that a believer can commit which when done, God will call that believer home to heaven.

It is NOT the unpardonable sin. Example.......
Moses committed the "sin unto death".(Deu. 3:26).
Aaron committed the sin unto death. (Numbers 20:12).
Ananias & Sapphira committed the sin unto death. (Acts 5:1-11).
The believers who were drunk at the Lords supper. (1 Cor. 11:30).
Absalom committed this sin unto death.

It is simply when a child of God continues to disobay and disgrace the Lord down here, God will simply take him home by death.

I submitt to you the truth of this teaching by quoting 1 John 5:17 which says..................
"All unrighteousness is sin....and there is a sin NOT unto death".

Well there it is for you my brother. Believers who are alive today have all sinned but we havent sinned a sin unto death. We all have done things that were wrong and it was unrighteousness but God did not take us home.

 

[CCW95A]

Here is another example of someone willfully sinning in the Church, yet the Apostle tells them how to deal with this person so, his spirit may be saved.

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
1Co 5:3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing.
1Co 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
1Co 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

 

[By Faith]

I do not see the word "ONE" in the verses you posted from Hebrews my brother. Then the other thing here is that the Heb. 10:26 verses simply do not apply to your thinking that they do.

They were given as a warning to the HEBREW believers because many of them were turning from Christ and wanting to go back to the Temple worship and make sacrifices and keep the law as a way of being saved. By doing so they made the cross of Christ ineffective and meaningless. So the phrase .......
"If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth", means that to go on making sacrifices at the temple was to willfully sin. That being the case.........there would be no other way to come to God because they had in effect rejected Christ.

As for 1 John 5:16-17 and the "Sin unto death".

The teaching there is referring to PHYSICAL death and there is no referrance at all to spiritual death because the chaild of God has eternal life. John is saying that there is a sin that a believer can commit which when done, God will call that believer home to heaven.

It is NOT the unpardonable sin. Example.......
Moses committed the "sin unto death".(Deu. 3:26).
Aaron committed the sin unto death. (Numbers 20:12).
Ananias & Sapphira committed the sin unto death. (Acts 5:1-11).
The believers who were drunk at the Lords supper. (1 Cor. 11:30).
Absalom committed this sin unto death.

It is simply when a child of God continues to disobay and disgrace the Lord down here, God will simply take him home by death.

I submitt to you the truth of this teaching by quoting 1 John 5:17 which says..................
"All unrighteousness is sin....and there is a sin NOT unto death".

Well there it is for you my brother. Believers who are alive today have all sinned but we havent sinned a sin unto death. We all have done things that were wrong and it was unrighteousness but God did not take us home.

Well, we met part of the way I guess. The first effects of sin are those things mentioned in the curse of the law Deut 28. Physicaly problems, money problems, and it's a long list.

I can't agree with your thought on Hebrews 10. The "ONE" sin is specific and that is counting the blood covenant by which you where sanctified a unholy thing.
Folks that take up keeping parts of the law or even making sacrifices again like they did in Galatia does not mean they look forward to God's judgement and fire.

Someone that actually counted the blood covenant worthless is a heart condition. It says nothing about keeping the law.

John said there was a sin unto death. To say that means physically dead would mean that believer would have to die sick or something and God would not heal them.
Even Paul turning one over to Satan for his death (Destruction of the Flesh) so the spirit might be saved, reprented and got better as Paul said recieve him that he have no overmuch sorrow.

So even blatant sin and getting close to death is recoverable.

Not wanting Jesus anymore, counting the blood covenant a unholy thing despite the Holy Spirit of Grace is not good. Someone can be in sin and make it back. Someone that wants nothing more to do with Jesus and Salvation after knowing the truth, We can't bring them back.

Scripture never mentioned they can't repent, but two places say we can't do anything for them.

 

[Lanolin]

Um I agree with Major cos this happened to a friend of mine.
She was saved five days before she passed and she did sin after she was saved and that sin was unto death. She was drinking and the consequences of that were severe. However her spirit was saved and I know she is with the Lord.
I found out cos her sister told me..some neighbours came to their door as heard some fighting and they told her and her sister the gospel and they repented and believed there and then. five days later my friend went missing, it is presumed she drowned though nobody really knows for sure, but she was at a party and quite scared and she knew she shouldnt have gone cos she didnt trust the ppl,and even tried to ring the police but they wouldnt believe her. Anyway her behaviour was quite erratic but I know she was trying the best she could to have faith while knee deep in sin after being saved. I dont think she ever got time to even go to any church.

 

[CCW95A]

This is why a born again Christian can never stay in sin as it is completely against their new nature which is Jesus Christ.

1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Unbelief is the only sin that is unforgivable. This sin is done by those who know the truth, but have decided not to believe because their deeds are evil.

 

[GBzone]

Being unable to reead can also get you in trouble. I never Said God is not absoulte.............. But claiming I did, shows that I am not the one in Peril.

You said absolutes get in the way.
Thus denied either that there were absolutes or they were an obstical to you.
thus I replied with the mention of God.
Yet are you now saying that you cannot be absolutely sure of anything? How then can you be free for it is only when you know the truth are you made free.
You may know the truth and be absolutely certain of it for it is God who spake it .
You cannot be less certain about the truth than God is in the matter if you are in agreement .
But make sure it is the truth .and not what you think it is .

in Christ
gerald

 

[By Faith]

You said absolutes get in the way.
Thus denied either that there were absolutes or they were an obstical to you.
thus I replied with the mention of God.
Yet are you now saying that you cannot be absolutely sure of anything? How then can you be free for it is only when you know the truth are you made free.
You may know the truth and be absolutely certain of it for it is God who spake it .
You cannot be less certain about the truth than God is in the matter if you are in agreement .
But make sure it is the truth .and not what you think it is .

in Christ
gerald

I never said anything what you mentioned above. Being misquoted bothers me very much as it shows a) I said something over someones head. b) They just did not take the time to read carefully and assumed things.

In both cases, it's best to ask what was meant.

Now go back and read again.

 

[GBzone]

Ah, as the flesh will pull to do bad things and over eat, it can be made subject to the spirit man through the Holy Spirit and the Old man can be kept locked in the box. It's like a weight we have to drag around and make sure He don't get out.

It is more of being "crucified with Christ "
Then being "buried with Christ "
For" they that are Christs have crucified the flesh with the lusts thereof"
"If then the same Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell IN you he shall quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit "
It is then a question of "let not sin reign in your mortal bodies that ye obey in the lusts thereof"
Then the logic is let Christ reign in your moral body or in you . Not you .

Very different .

in Christ
gerald