Do you believe in HELL?

[Beloved]

:israel:

Ok, so I'm back again to post...on this thread.

Dear Beloved, you ask what's my bible. Any bible that does not use the Alexandrian Text. I hate those corrupt texts with a passion...

Jag

Hi Jag,

I have used various versions over the years...
When I was younger I studied about all text and what their roots were... However I don't now remember 1...

Could you give me a few versions that are not Alexandrian...And I will do some research...

On another note: I think I said this already, but here goes...
I don't know if you were raised like me between 2 cultures, so it is easy for me to understand this precept....

When I was a child the phrase, "She is Americanized" to one culture meant a very positive attribute...

But to the 2nd culture, when they sneered and said to my mother," She is Americanized" was an insult...

Now, lets say this is now written down ...and found 4 thousand years later by archeologist that live in a totally separate and distinked ( sp) culture...

And they interpreted the phrase, She is Americanized"... to mean something totally different than what culture 1 and 2 meant it to be...

They do the best they can in interpreting according to the knowledge they have in there culture...

This is what we have in all Bible versions... None know what the culture was like exactly 4 thousand years ago, except for what is written which can be also mis-understood...

Languages evolve, within a generation, the culture evolves within a generation...

We, in our life time now can see this happening around the world to the majority of cultures...

Though the Father, Christ and the Holy Ghost do not lie ever, they are still within the confines of the world we all live in which is Spiritual but whose understanding are in the flesh when it comes to interpreting a word, numbers, meanings of those people who no longer exist...

It says in Abbas Word:

1. 1 Corinthians 13:12
   For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [ by God].
   1 Corinthians 13:11-13 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter)

Isn't that GOOD NEWS!!!!:dance:Though we cannot see Him clearly He sees us fully and knows us clearly... Halelujah, Praise our Heavenly Abba... He does not give up on us because we don't know everything...

We love you Jag... Let's be patient with one another for that is the Will Of the Father...

 

[thesuperjag]

it says , "I will put emnity between your seed and the womans seed." Emnity means: mutual hatred.
Then it goes on to say, "He will crush your head and you will strike his heal" This is Jesus people. Women dont have seed. This points to a miraculous birth. Jesus crushed satan when he died on the cross. The woman did not get impregnated by the seed of satan. That would please Satan. God was punishing Satan in the garden.

According to the Hebrew manuscripts. Satan the fallen archangel did indeed have sex with Eve. (Genesis 3:13, II Corinthians 11:3) The word for seed is... in Genesis 3:15 ...

Hebrew word #2233 zera: seed, sowing, offspring a sowing, seed, semen virile, offspring, descendants, posterity, children From #2232 zara: to become pregnant, be made pregnant

Jag

 

[thesuperjag]

Ok, so I'm back again to post...on this thread.

Dear Beloved, you ask what's my bible. Any bible that does not use the Alexandrian Text. I hate those corrupt texts with a passion...

Jag

Hi Jag,

I have used various versions over the years...
When I was younger I studied about all text and what their roots were... However I don't now remember 1...

Could you give me a few versions that are not Alexandrian...And I will do some research...

On another note: I think I said this already, but here goes...
I don't know if you were raised like me between 2 cultures, so it is easy for me to understand this precept....

When I was a child the phrase, "She is Americanized" to one culture meant a very positive attribute...

But to the 2nd culture, when they sneered and said to my mother," She is Americanized" was an insult...

Now, lets say this is now written down ...and found 4 thousand years later by archeologist that live in a totally separate and distinked ( sp) culture...

And they interpreted the phrase, She is Americanized"... to mean something totally different than what culture 1 and 2 meant it to be...

They do the best they can in interpreting according to the knowledge they have in there culture...

This is what we have in all Bible versions... None know what the culture was like exactly 4 thousand years ago, except for what is written which can be also mis-understood...

Languages evolve, within a generation, the culture evolves within a generation...

We, in our life time now can see this happening around the world to the majority of cultures...

Though the Father, Christ and the Holy Ghost do not lie ever, they are still within the confines of the world we all live in which is Spiritual but whose understanding are in the flesh when it comes to interpreting a word, numbers, meanings of those people who no longer exist...

It says in Abbas Word:

1. 1 Corinthians 13:12
   For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [ by God].
   1 Corinthians 13:11-13 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter)

Isn't that GOOD NEWS!!!!:dance:Though we cannot see Him clearly He sees us fully and knows us clearly... Halelujah, Praise our Heavenly Abba... He does not give up on us because we don't know everything...

We love you Jag... Let's be patient with one another for that is the Will Of the Father...[/quote]

Dear Beloved...

The Alexandrian Texts​

• Apostate (heretics-disbelieving cardinal doctrines)
  
  Alexandria, Egypt (never a good thing said about it)
  
  Perverted words of God
  
  45 manuscripts. No *two* consecutive verses in them agree!
  
  Persecutors of the believers, killed Christians and burned their Bibles
  
  Manuscripts Deformed the Roman Catholic "Church".
  
  Apocrypha COMES from Alexandrian "Bibles"!
  
  Bibles lead to Constantine's "Bibles," to RC Latin Vulgate to Jesuit 1582/1610 Rheims/Douay to Challoner's Revision to the 1850s revised Douay/Rheims to the New American Bible (on the Roman Catholic side); Protestant Side: Revised Version (1881), made with the SAME MANUSCRIPTS, and all those that followed, such as the NIV, ASV, RSV, TEV, NASV, NRSV, NEB, REB, Good News, New Living, and almost 200 others!
  
  The "per-versions" brought a revival--of doubt.
  
  The Catholic versions caused people to submit to Rome.
  
  The Catholic versions were only used by Roman Catholics
  
  The modern Alexandrian versions quenched God's words. People said, "thus saith my teacher!"

The Byzantine and Antiochian Text​

• Apostolic
  
  Antioch (Acts 11:26)
  
  Preserved words of God
  
  5,321 manuscripts: massively agree.
  
  Persecuted by others, Bibles burned and their people brutally killed
  
  Manuscripts Reformed the Christians
  
  Bibles without Apocrypha
  
  Bibles lead to Tyndale to Rogers to Coverdale, to Great Bible to Geneva, to Bishop's Bible to the King James Bible.
  
  The King James Bible brought revival
  
  The KJV brought the missionary movement
  
  The KJV helped found the USA
  
  The KJV helped people say: "Thus saith the LORD!"

Source: http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/saved.asp

 

[believerintheword]

According to the Hebrew manuscripts. Satan the fallen archangel did indeed have sex with Eve. (Genesis 3:13, II Corinthians 11:3) The word for seed is... in Genesis 3:15 ...

Hebrew word #2233 zera: seed, sowing, offspring a sowing, seed, semen virile, offspring, descendants, posterity, children From #2232 zara: to become pregnant, be made pregnant

Jag

all it says in both verses you presented is that eve was deceived. not impregnated. She ate of the tree of knowledge. This is called replacement theology. It NEVER says that eve had sexual relations with the serpent. it says God put mutual hatred "emnity" between the seeds of the serpent and the woman. he didnt even say eve. He said, the Woman. Who is this?? and why would he (who is he) strike satans head while satan bruises his heal? and again what would be the point in all of this? This is to punish satan. He was defeated by Jesus dying on the cross. Jesus is the he in Genesis. He is the seed of the woman that will crush satans head.

 

[Beloved]

Ok! so are you saying the

The Byzantine and Antiochian Text

is what you study out of?

No it's the KJV right...

I don't have time now but I will look into that web site...

But Please don't believe everything that you see or hear on TV, radio, or the WEB for many are out there to make a good living out of any religion...

There is a Biblical verse that refers to this ...However it seems you ignore all Bible references unless it is the KJV...?

Have a blessed Sunday, Jag

​

 

[thesuperjag]

Ok! so are you saying the

The Byzantine and Antiochian Text

is what you study out of?

No it's the KJV right...

I don't have time now but I will look into that web site...

But Please don't believe everything that you see or hear on TV, radio, or the WEB for many are out there to make a good living out of any religion...

There is a Biblical verse that refers to this ...However it seems you ignore all Bible references unless it is the KJV...?

Have a blessed Sunday, Jag

​

Dear Beloved, not only I agree with that website, I don't go around to websites agreeing everything it says. I do my own research. I don't watch TV, nor hear the radio. For I am better at reading than I do listening.

For if I say The Byzantine Texts and the Alexandrian Texts are both the Word of God. I had easily deceived myself, and the Truth is not in me. For it is impossible for The Byzantine Texts and the Alexandrian Texts to be the Word of God. I studied bibles and yet I can tell which text is true or not. For I am blessed by God for knowing this.

Much love to you Beloved, from Jag.

According to the Hebrew manuscripts. Satan the fallen archangel did indeed have sex with Eve. (Genesis 3:13, II Corinthians 11:3) The word for seed is... in Genesis 3:15 ...

Hebrew word #2233 zera: seed, sowing, offspring a sowing, seed, semen virile, offspring, descendants, posterity, children From #2232 zara: to become pregnant, be made pregnant

Jag

all it says in both verses you presented is that eve was deceived. not impregnated. She ate of the tree of knowledge. This is called replacement theology. It NEVER says that eve had sexual relations with the serpent. it says God put mutual hatred "emnity" between the seeds of the serpent and the woman. he didnt even say eve. He said, the Woman. Who is this?? and why would he (who is he) strike satans head while satan bruises his heal? and again what would be the point in all of this? This is to punish satan. He was defeated by Jesus dying on the cross. Jesus is the he in Genesis. He is the seed of the woman that will crush satans head.[/quote]

Don't mind me, I'm just a mouthpiece used by God. Satan is addressed to "thy seed" and I'm only saying what the Hebrew manuscript says.

Whereof Hebrew is a fixed language

Whereof Engish is not a fixed language

As the English language falls short.

Much love to you, from Jag

 

[CD27]

Hokay guys, (snaps fingers), let me intervene..lol, j/k. Um, actually, i have a very interesting story i'd like to share with those of you who are willing to put aside skeptisizm for a sec to watch a video you can download for free of this website. here it is:

here's the audio version:
http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/BillWise_AllTracks.mp3

here's the video version:

http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/..._Hell_by_Bill_Wiese_Reference_Version_med.wmv

this is an excillent story and it's backed completely by scripture as well as other individuals who have had similar experiences.

God Bless and In Him,

Eric Wright

 

[believerintheword]

but it dosent make any sense. The hebrew word means many things. what makes you think that it means she was impregnated by satan? It would not make sense. It dosent make sense. It says emnity. emnity means mutual hatred. I think the whole eve and satan having intercourse is non biblical. It is a replacement theology. I dont mean to be rude at all , so let me apologise if I am. The Hebrew text does not say that the serpent will have sexual relations with the woman. Seed, means offspring. does it say that eve will give birth to satans offspring? no

If people try to rake this as Cain and Abel, how could they? Cain killed able. So since he is evil, how did "he" in genesis 3:15 crush his head? and another thing, Cain hated Abel, But did Abel Hate Cain? because emnity means mutual hatred, they would have to hate eachother equaly wouldent they? But if you put it into prespectice of Christ and Satan, Christ mutualy hates Satan as Satan Hates Christ. then it makes sense. Just a thought. I love ya!! Just showing the context that is most common that I have read

 

[thesuperjag]

but it dosent make any sense. The hebrew word means many things. what makes you think that it means she was impregnated by satan? It would not make sense. It dosent make sense. It says emnity. emnity means mutual hatred. I think the whole eve and satan having intercourse is non biblical. It is a replacement theology. I dont mean to be rude at all , so let me apologise if I am. The Hebrew text does not say that the serpent will have sexual relations with the woman. Seed, means offspring. does it say that eve will give birth to satans offspring? no

If people try to rake this as Cain and Abel, how could they? Cain killed able. So since he is evil, how did "he" in genesis 3:15 crush his head? and another thing, Cain hated Abel, But did Abel Hate Cain? because emnity means mutual hatred, they would have to hate eachother equaly wouldent they? But if you put it into prespectice of Christ and Satan, Christ mutualy hates Satan as Satan Hates Christ. then it makes sense. Just a thought. I love ya!! Just showing the context that is most common that I have read

Because YHWH gave the commandment to Adam not to eat the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Satan) (Genesis 2:16-17) Apparently Eve knows that too...(Genesis 3:2-3)

What did Eve do? She did the opposite of what YHWH said.

On Genesis 3:3 the word touch in Hebrew is...

Hebrew #5060 naga` naw-gah' a primitive root; properly, to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to lie with a woman); by implication, to reach (figuratively, to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.):--beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.

Genesis 3:13 The word for beguile in Hebrew is

Hebrew # 5377 nasha' naw-shaw' a primitive root; to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce:--beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

We find the same word beguiled in II Corinthians 11:3. The Greek word for beguiled is...

Greek #1818 exapatao ex-ap-at-ah'-o from 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly:--beguile, deceive.

A sexual act is committed. Now we can see "thy seed" more clearly. Satan's offspring vs, woman offspring (Lineage for Christ to come through)

Jag

 

[thesuperjag]

If we read it as a story, you are correct...but seeing how touch, eat, beguiled, are all completely related to the sexual act, the additional informations that Eve said, didn't hurt the truth.

So she still went against YHWH...We got Satan's offspring on Earth even today. We got many races exist today (Genesis 1:26-28)

Jag

 

[believerintheword]

theres a problem here. God never said not to touch the tree. He said not to eat of it. Eve said that god said not to touch the tree. The obvious context of touch is to handle or feel. like I said before. it dosent make any sense with satan impregnating eve. Did eve say, not to touch the serpent? if she said that god said this then she would have had sex with the serpent going againsed God. according to this specific interpretation of the text. There are also other Hebrew words for touch. like :

4184 muwsh moosh a primitive root; to touch:--feel, handle.

 

[believerintheword]

If we read it as a story, you are correct...but seeing how touch, eat, beguiled, are all completely related to the sexual act, the additional informations that Eve said, didn't hurt the truth.

So she still went against YHWH...We got Satan's offspring on Earth even today. We got many races exist today (Genesis 1:26-28)

Jag

The earthly Flood took out these Human Races. Noahs family are the only to survive. We do know that all of todays inhabitants come from the line of Noah

 

[thesuperjag]

If we read it as a story, you are correct...but seeing how touch, eat, beguiled, are all completely related to the sexual act, the additional informations that Eve said, didn't hurt the truth.

So she still went against YHWH...We got Satan's offspring on Earth even today. We got many races exist today (Genesis 1:26-28)

The earthly Flood took out these Human Races. Noahs family are the only to survive. We do know that all of todays inhabitants come from the line of Noah[/quote]

Actually there were more people on Noah's Ark. Those eight souls mention are those souls who did not mate with the sons of God. (fallen angels) Quite frankly...everyone being a descendent of Noah doesn't hold water...If that's true, that makes Yahshua, the Son of God, a liar on what He said on John 8:37-44 and John the Baptist on Matthew 3:7-9.

Jag

 

[believerintheword]

I dont know what you have been reading, but that is not biblical at all. It does not say that. It says Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives. It mentions NOTHING about any other people on the Ark. also, Jesus is not talking about satans actual children. He is talking about evil people in general. for example. I debate with Atheists all of the time, they dont understand the scriptures like I do AT ALL!! They do not claim god as their father therfore they do not listen to god, they listen to satan who has things like evolution and gnostic gospels to lead people astray

 

[thesuperjag]

I dont know what you have been reading, but that is not biblical at all. It does not say that. It says Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives. It mentions NOTHING about any other people on the Ark.

Genesis 7:14 - They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

The word beast in Genesis 7:14 in Hebrew is chay

chay khah'-ee from 2421; alive; hence, raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively:--+ age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life(-time), live(-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.

Genesis 7:15 - And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Genesis 7:16 - And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

.................

Genesis 7:23 - And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

................

Genesis 8:1 - And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;

.................

Revelation 17:15 - And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Genesis 8:3 - And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

Genesis 8:4 - And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Genesis 8:5 - And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

Genesis 8:6 - And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:

Genesis 8:7 - And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.

raven = Satan (Hint: Job 1:7, Job 2:2)

Genesis 8:8 - Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;

dove = Holy Ghost (Note: Matthew 3:16)

Jag

 

[believerintheword]

Allogorical interpretation

You are using Allogorical interpretation. This does not work because anyone can interpret anything the way they please if they use this method. Things in the Bible are to be taken Literally. This is the only way for common man to read and understand it. The Bible was written for common people to be able to read. If I picked up a bible and read it for the first time not knowing what it meant, I would take it literally. If I interpreted it allogorically then I could make it mean anything I wanted to. That is not what God intended his word to be like. If everything was symbolism, then absolutly no one would get the right interpretation. They would get their own.

PROV. 3:5-7

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight. [a]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.

 

[violet]

I just stopped in to say...Wonderful thread! Hell is a very real, very important topic of discussion that too many people try to avoid. I find that mostly it is feared by those who assume they are going there (whether they actually say it out loud or not). Those of us who know we are saved by the blood of Jesus need not fear.

Another part of this discussion that caught my attention was the mentioning of the rapture. It will indeed happen as it has been written, it's just a matter of when. I myself cannot wait to meet my Father in heaven.

As for the term Abba, it is a title for father but I know some people who use it when referring to God. It's really no different that just calling Him Father if you think about it.

Thank you, Jennifer, we are in agreement~
​

 

[violet]

If we read it as a story, you are correct...but seeing how touch, eat, beguiled, are all completely related to the sexual act, the additional informations that Eve said, didn't hurt the truth.

So she still went against YHWH...We got Satan's offspring on Earth even today. We got many races exist today (Genesis 1:26-28)

Jag

We have RACES that are fathered by satan?
Who are these races may I ask?
This sounds like pure prejudice to me!
How can you truly believe this?
So you also believe there is a superior race?
​

 

[thesuperjag]

If we read it as a story, you are correct...but seeing how touch, eat, beguiled, are all completely related to the sexual act, the additional informations that Eve said, didn't hurt the truth.

So she still went against YHWH...We got Satan's offspring on Earth even today. We got many races exist today (Genesis 1:26-28)

Jag

We have RACES that are fathered by satan?
Who are these races may I ask?
This sounds like pure prejudice to me!
How can you truly believe this?
So you also believe there is a superior race? [/quote]

Dear Violet

First, they are some offspring that the Devil had. Hence with Eve (Genesis 3:13, II Corinthians 11:3) and the sons of God (fallen angels) took the daughters of men (human) as wives and had sex with them and had giants. (Genesis 6:2) Hence the reason for that flood.

Secondly the offsprings of Satan is out there to stop the lineage of Christ to come through in Bible times...today that same offsprings of Satan is trying to deceive as many members of the Body of Christ. In reality, there are only two Bodies.

Thirdly, no races are superior, as YHWH created all races equally. As we fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) as only through Lord Yahshua Christ shall we have eternal life. (Romans 6:23)

Anybody can repent to Him and anybody can deceive anybody with lies without anybody knowing what they did.

Jag

 

[Rumely]

Genesis 7:14 - They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

The word beast in Genesis 7:14 in Hebrew is chay

chay khah'-ee from 2421; alive; hence, raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively:--+ age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life(-time), live(-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.

Genesis 7:15 - And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Genesis 7:16 - And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

.................

Genesis 7:23 - And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

................

Genesis 8:1 - And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;

.................

Revelation 17:15 - And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Genesis 8:3 - And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

Genesis 8:4 - And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Genesis 8:5 - And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

Genesis 8:6 - And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:

Genesis 8:7 - And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.

raven = Satan (Hint: Job 1:7, Job 2:2)

Genesis 8:8 - Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;

dove = Holy Ghost (Note: Matthew 3:16)

Jag

So God destroyed all the evil men of Noah's time, but in the process saved not only righteous Noah's family and the various dumb beasts, but also let on some half-demons? That doesn't even begin to make sense from the text. Wouldn't that have defeated the whole purpose of the flood? I ask this rhetorically, of course.

Whenever I make baked beans, it is necessary to stir the pot on occasion to keep them from burning. If they are stirred up too much, however, they just turn into an unpalatable mush. Fearing that possibility, this constitutes my only contribution to this thread. That's what happens when you come late to the party.