Do You Believe Atheists "choose" To Go To Hell?

[HisManySongs]

I don't know anyone who does that. Do you? If you have a relationship with someone who professes atheism, would you simply think, "Oh, they have made their choice and for a good reason to them---so be it."???

Spouting Scripture at someone in an effort to pound it into their head is, unfortunately, a common practice. I've seen them on street corners.

I would accept that their reason seems right to them. But:

Proverbs 14:12 (NLT)
12 There is a path before each person that seems right,
but it ends in death.

It's our job to show them the truly right way. Again, we should use words if necessary.

 

[Euphemia]

Thanks, that means SO much coming from you.

All right. Maybe they grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church. But based on your answers thus far, you might be a fan of theirs, so maybe that's not a good example.

That is a very distorted discernment, and a personal slight. Can you be nice at all? Why so rude?

People who are filled with the milk of human kindness can detect when certain Christians overlook more obvious explanations for things before rushing straight to the idea of "devils" being the culprit.

Here you are suggesting that atheists condemn themselves to hell, and you're calling ME bitter?

Yes, I see bitterness in you concerning the fact that Christians disagree with your views surrounding homosexuality. You are holding a grudge, it seems.

Atheists are heading for hell, no doubt, but if they come by me, they will at least be given the good news that they can choose another path.

Well, I don't answer to you, I answer to God, and for the umpteenth time, you're not God, you don't speak for God, and your interpretations of scripture are highly suspect

Once again, I don't claim to be God. I am His ambassador, and as such, I, like all other serious Christians endeavour to preach what God says in His word. He is the one who gives the interpretation of it. I see you lack in that area.

I'm learning plenty here, mostly about you. Allowing people to live their lives isn't false humility and I'm really amazed that you could find ANYTHING prideful in it.

LOL! Yep, it is clear that some people who are frightened by the truth, confronted with the possibility that they may be believing something erroneously and are presented with truth will recoil and bite.

 

[Euphemia]

It's quite amazing to me that not only do you speak on God's behalf, but you can condemn ALL atheists with one statement like that even though you know nothing about them or the experiences they've had. The Jehovah's Witnesses take the message of proselytizing literally by going door to door, and they are despised roundly for that behaviour. Still think it's a good idea?

What are you talking about? Who is suggesting the JW tactic for evangelism? Do you not love people enough to tell them about Jesus? Do you not love God enough to obey Him?

That's a very warped belief you have there, assuming you are serious - it's as hellish and nightmarish as anything you'd see in one of those ridiculous Jack Chick tracts. That is no kind of Christianity to be following. Find me ONE atheist who hasn't heard about Jesus. Good luck. My findings is they all know already, it's kind of hard to live in this day and age and NOT know. They've made their choices, they don't need people nagging at them, it's only going to drive them away. You want people to become Christians? Lead by example. They will be much more impressed by your kind actions than your screaming rage.

Your comments are really bizarre.

Many atheists have heard only a little about Jesus. Many do not understand the true gospel message. It is your job and mine to make sure they hear the true gospel message. Leading by one's life is one way to preach Christ. Words are another. Both is great.

 

[KingJ]

Yes, it is our job, but pounding them over the head with Scripture isn't the most effective way.

As Augustine said - 'preach the Gospel, use words if necessary.'

I agree with Augustine in general and under normal circumstances. But lets face reality. It is easier to say nothing and go under the radar. Nobody wants to come to work the next day and be isolated as the Christian who thinks he is better then everyone else because he told two gays they are going to hell if they continue as they are. What must we do? Make them tea and smile? And sing Christian songs?

It takes more effort to reach out to those who you know are in mortal sin / pushing the boundaries with God / hate God. Of course we reach out in love. Of course we don't harass them over visiting them in hospital. But lets face another reality...God haters take offence with anything a Christian does. Our very presence causes offence. They feel ''''judged''''' the moment our aura enters the room! Matt 13:13 says we will be hated because of Jesus...not because of what we say...not because we never made the tea or smiled when we gave them scripture.

I laugh my head off at the term '''bible punching / bashing someone with scripture''. It is like accusing a kid of being too cute. ''I have a million dollars for you'' ....stop lotto punching me...or the '''worst''' '''you are going to hell (well every sinner can sense punishment for sins is coming, so that is just an obvious reminder that they get tired of hearing)...but you don't have to, Jesus took our place''. Someone is tired of hearing that? We hear that every week at church. We are aware of that every second we speak to Jesus. Are we ever tired of hearing that? Can a Christian ever be bible punched? Should a Christian not see it as someone caring and reaching out to them. They could keep quite and say nothing!!! Being spoken to about scripture / sharing the truth is a privilege for the recipient. The only one at a loss is the speaker for casting pearl before swine.

 

[Euphemia]

Spouting Scripture at someone in an effort to pound it into their head is, unfortunately, a common practice. I've seen them on street corners.

I would accept that their reason seems right to them. But:


It's our job to show them the truly right way. Again, we should use words if necessary.

I agree. I just hope that we as believers are willing to use words, or are we governed by a fear of man and disguising it as a respect for the atheist's choice?

 

[KingJ]

You are a liar too, KingJ. Same as me and the unsaved. I do not believe that every atheist is lying when they say they've read the Bible or that they've tried praying. They are the same as us except Jesus forgives our sins and gives us a fresh start daily only to screw up again.

Agreed!! We are all liars. I have plenty sin. The difference being I am choosing to face my sin and deal with it by getting on my knees. Doing that lead me to a supernatural encounter with God, after which I can say Jesus is Lord with zero doubt 1 Cor 12:3.

Atheists on the other hand...are choosing to lie to themselves...daily. ''Repeat after me '''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'' '''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'''''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'''''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'' ''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''

Say that enough times and eventually the Holy Spirit just gives up. Clearly the mental brainwashing is being driven from some twisted / evil heart condition.

Now, how do you get someone out of a rut like that? The normal approach or the desperate approach?

My dad is an atheist. I remind him every-time I see him that wolves will be with wolves and lambs with lambs. Stop hardening your heart! bend that knee and deal with your pride. He sees my Christian actions in that I speak to him with respect, in private. I don't visit and zip my mouth. That is hatred. Is that what you want me to do? I LOVE my dad. I do NOT want him to not be in heaven or know how special and good Jesus is! A life without Jesus is a life not lived!

 

[HisManySongs]

I agree. I just hope that we as believers are willing to use words, or are we governed by a fear of man and disguising it as a respect for the atheist's choice?

We will most likely need to use words, but if our words do not match our actions, we will not be believed and the atheist will have more of a reason to doubt there is a God.

We can respect a person's choice and still point out the error in their thinking.

 

[Euphemia]

We will most likely need to use words, but if our words do not match our actions, we will not be believed and the atheist will have more of a reason to doubt there is a God.

The Lord teaches us about that. It's called hypocrisy.

We can respect a person's choice and still point out the error in their thinking.

That is part of respecting the person. If we truly love people, we will be more than willing to speak up for the truth about Jesus Christ. It's the least we can do for Him.

 

[Huntingteckel]

Agreed!! We are all liars. I have plenty sin. The difference being I am choosing to face my sin and deal with it by getting on my knees. Doing that lead me to a supernatural encounter with God, after which I can say Jesus is Lord with zero doubt 1 Cor 12:3.

Atheists on the other hand...are choosing to lie to themselves...daily. ''Repeat after me '''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'' '''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'''''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'''''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'' ''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''

Say that enough times and eventually the Holy Spirit just gives up. Clearly the mental brainwashing is being driven from some twisted / evil heart condition.

Now, how do you get someone out of a rut like that? The normal approach or the desperate approach?

My dad is an atheist. I remind him every-time I see him that wolves will be with wolves and lambs with lambs. Stop hardening your heart! bend that knee and deal with your pride. He sees my Christian actions in that I speak to him with respect, in private. I don't visit and zip my mouth. That is hatred. Is that what you want me to do? I LOVE my dad. I do NOT want him to not be in heaven or know how special and good Jesus is! A life without Jesus is a life not lived!

If Calvinism is true then they aren't lying to themselves at all. God just doesn't want them so He doesn't reveal Himself to them.
I don't agree with Calvinism, but I understand why people believe it and I do think it has some biblical merit, mainly in the book of Romans. If Calvinism is true then these people can do whatever they like and if they aren't the elect then God won't save them.

At what point should we stop talking to atheists about Jesus and just show them what being a Christian is? Honestly, I hate when Christians approach me and talk to me like they have a certain speech memorized. It makes me want to vomit. It's not genuine, and I feel like if we aren't speaking from the heart we shouldn't say anything. I think it's more meaningful to say less and it be more profound than flippantly reciting lines you think a Christian should say.

I'm not saying you do that with your pops, it just reminded me of that.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

That is a very distorted discernment, and a personal slight. Can you be nice at all? Why so rude?

I'm sorry you found that to be rude, but consider the Westboro Baptists, easily the most hate-filled group of Christians I've ever seen. In some respects they are IDEAL Christians. They can quote scripture like nobody's business, and based on a documentary I saw about them, they do practice Christian charity in their homes (although not during their horrible demonstrations). Whether or not anyone likes it, however, they have become the face of Christian hate and bigotry and the world SEES that and the whole of Christianity is damaged because of it. That is the opposite of the kind of Christian I strive to be. But some of the statements you've made seem closer to them than I find comfortable.

Yes, I see bitterness in you concerning the fact that Christians disagree with your views surrounding homosexuality. You are holding a grudge, it seems.

No, I just think those particular Christians are wrong. And that is based on a combination of my Christianity and my dedication to simple basic human rights. No grudge.

Atheists are heading for hell, no doubt, but if they come by me, they will at least be given the good news that they can choose another path.

You really think so? I think God would probably spare some. If they lived good moral lives, if they discovered a vaccine that saved millions of lives, things like that. I don't think things are as cut and dried as you do.

Once again, I don't claim to be God. I am His ambassador, and as such, I, like all other serious Christians endeavour to preach what God says in His word. He is the one who gives the interpretation of it.

I am sure you won't want another Westboro Baptist comparison, but I'm sure they see things that way too. I'm sure they think they're doing God's work.

I see you lack in that area.

I do not concern myself with your pronouncements and judgments of me. They are irrelevant.

LOL! Yep, it is clear that some people who are frightened by the truth, confronted with the possibility that they may be believing something erroneously and are presented with truth will recoil and bite.

They might also just think you're so far off base that you aren't to be taken seriously.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

What are you talking about? Who is suggesting the JW tactic for evangelism? Do you not love people enough to tell them about Jesus? Do you not love God enough to obey Him?

Whether you tell an atheist at their door about Jesus or whether you tell them to their face at work or in a coffee shop, I think the result is the same. You're going to tick them off. That's not the way to go about it.

Your comments are really bizarre.

Suggesting people lead by example is bizarre? It's worked well for me so far. I've been very careful in choosing my words to you, and I might be crossing a line here, but I find your words and beliefs borderline hateful. Just as I consider Jack Chick tracts hateful (and in fact they are considered hate speech and some aren't even allowed in Canada). Admins - sorry if that's a loaded word, and I'll try not to use it in future, but I just can't think of another word that works.

Many atheists have heard only a little about Jesus. Many do not understand the true gospel message. It is your job and mine to make sure they hear the true gospel message. Leading by one's life is one way to preach Christ. Words are another. Both is great.

My experience is that many atheists know the Bible and have read it - do you think your particular spin on it, or mine, or anyone's, is going to hit them in a way they haven't considered already?

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

Atheists on the other hand...are choosing to lie to themselves...daily. ''Repeat after me '''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'' '''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'''''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'''''sin is not a problem I need to deal with'' ''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''''There is no God''

Say that enough times and eventually the Holy Spirit just gives up. Clearly the mental brainwashing is being driven from some twisted / evil heart condition.

Sorry, I can't let that one go by without comment. First of all, no atheist I know repeats a mantra that keeps them in an "atheistic state". Secondly, they might define sin differently than you do (example: Do you consider gambling to be a sin? I know churches that teach that it is, and ones that teach it isn't).

Why on earth is it so hard to accept that many atheists just came to the conclusion that there's no creator? It isn't something I believe myself, but LOTS of people believe it to be true. Take a famous atheist like Richard Dawkins - do you honestly think he walks around all day going "there is no God, there is no God, there is no God?" Or has he arrived at a conclusion the way people normally arrive at conclusions?

 

[Euphemia]

I'm sorry you found that to be rude, but consider the Westboro Baptists, easily the most hate-filled group of Christians I've ever seen. In some respects they are IDEAL Christians. They can quote scripture like nobody's business, and based on a documentary I saw about them, they do practice Christian charity in their homes (although not during their horrible demonstrations). Whether or not anyone likes it, however, they have become the face of Christian hate and bigotry and the world SEES that and the whole of Christianity is damaged because of it. That is the opposite of the kind of Christian I strive to be. But some of the statements you've made seem closer to them than I find comfortable.

I have said nothing that should remind you of the WBC.

No, I just think those particular Christians are wrong. And that is based on a combination of my Christianity and my dedication to simple basic human rights. No grudge.

Then why do you bring up the difference of opinion from one thread to another? That is grudge-bearing. Human rights is one thing, but it doesn't figure in this. Every human has a need to hear the truth of the gospel. It isn't for us to "get them saved". It is for us to communicate the gospel message.

You really think so? I think God would probably spare some. If they lived good moral lives, if they discovered a vaccine that saved millions of lives, things like that. I don't think things are as cut and dried as you do.

It is this kind of statement that flies in the face of God. God tells us plainly what he will do with those who deny Him and those who reject His gift of salvation. You are creating your own personal gospel and that is what is causing you to step back from proclaiming it boldly as you are called to...so it seems.

No one is saved by living a moral life! We are saved by the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ applied to our sin! Your gospel doesn't exist. If you believe that one is saved by one's behaviour, you are believing a lie.

I do not concern myself with your pronouncements and judgments of me. They are irrelevant.

That is obvious.

They might also just think you're so far off base that you aren't to be taken seriously.

That is what people who are dedicated to hating God and denying the truth will think. It takes the work of Holy Spirit to open their eyes and hearts to the truth. Their rejection doesn't deter me. What seed I sow does its work, anyway.

 

[Euphemia]

Whether you tell an atheist at their door about Jesus or whether you tell them to their face at work or in a coffee shop, I think the result is the same. You're going to tick them off. That's not the way to go about it.

But I don't. So there!

Suggesting people lead by example is bizarre? It's worked well for me so far. I've been very careful in choosing my words to you, and I might be crossing a line here, but I find your words and beliefs borderline hateful. Just as I consider Jack Chick tracts hateful (and in fact they are considered hate speech and some aren't even allowed in Canada). Admins - sorry if that's a loaded word, and I'll try not to use it in future, but I just can't think of another word that works.

Ah, but I find you spiteful here.

How many people have you led to the Lord?

My experience is that many atheists know the Bible and have read it - do you think your particular spin on it, or mine, or anyone's, is going to hit them in a way they haven't considered already?

Only Holy Spirit can do the work of convincing people of the truth. We are called to speak the truth in love. So, that is what we must do. It matter s not whether an atheist has read the bible or not. He doesn't believe it! He needs to hear the truth from someone who believes it and in whose lives Holy Spirit is alive and working.

 

[Euphemia]

Sorry, I can't let that one go by without comment. First of all, no atheist I know repeats a mantra that keeps them in an "atheistic state". Secondly, they might define sin differently than you do (example: Do you consider gambling to be a sin? I know churches that teach that it is, and ones that teach it isn't).

Why on earth is it so hard to accept that many atheists just came to the conclusion that there's no creator? It isn't something I believe myself, but LOTS of people believe it to be true. Take a famous atheist like Richard Dawkins - do you honestly think he walks around all day going "there is no God, there is no God, there is no God?" Or has he arrived at a conclusion the way people normally arrive at conclusions?

Atheists choose to come to such a conclusion, but God tells us that no one has an excuse to deny His existence. No one. I believe God---not man. why do you have such a hard time doing that?

I believe that KingJ speaks the truth about the inner mantra of the atheist, as God presents Himself over and over again to these people, and they have to reconfirm their dedication to unbelief continually---many times it is most likely a subconscious thing.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

I have said nothing that should remind you of the WBC.

Telling people they're going to hell because of this or that infraction you believe them to be breaking whether they are or not sure sounds WBCish to me.

Then why do you bring up the difference of opinion from one thread to another? That is grudge-bearing. Human rights is one thing, but it doesn't figure in this. Every human has a need to hear the truth of the gospel. It isn't for us to "get them saved". It is for us to communicate the gospel message.

Because this is one of those areas where you claim to speak on behalf of all Christians, and you simply don't. There are many Christian churches welcoming to homosexuals and who don't ask them to live loveless and sexless lives. What is your response to them? That they're not true Christians, I'm guessing, since you yourself don't approve.

It is this kind of statement that flies in the face of God. God tells us plainly what he will do with those who deny Him and those who reject His gift of salvation. You are creating your own personal gospel and that is what is causing you to step back from proclaiming it boldly as you are called to...so it seems.

I choose to believe that God is merciful. If God were the tyrannical monster you are making him out to be where everyone who doesn't believe in Him is whisked off to burn horribly and torturously for an eternity of eternities, I would likely not want to be a Christian. I can't think of a punishment that terrible for any human being that ever existed, regardless of the offense. Incidentally, there are Christians who say hell is simply the grave and not a fiery furnace. Did you know that? Are those Christians wrong?

No one is saved by living a moral life! We are saved by the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ applied to our sin! Your gospel doesn't exist. If you believe that one is saved by one's behaviour, you are believing a lie.

In that case you're not just condemning me, but every single Catholic out there, since Catholics don't believe in faith alone for salvation but a combination of faith and works. You are really just digging the hole you're in deeper and deeper every time you make a blanket statement that condemns entire groups of people, you should really do something about that because it's a bad habit.

That is what people who are dedicated to hating God and denying the truth will think. It takes the work of Holy Spirit to open their eyes and hearts to the truth. Their rejection doesn't deter me. What seed I sow does its work, anyway.

No one hates God. Either they obey and love Him or they don't believe He's there. People might get angry at God when bad things happen in their lives but I think it's a stretch to say people hate God. Usually when people like you say things like that, what you're really saying is you don't like to be disagreed with and therefore the person you're in dispute with is a hellbound God-hater.

 

[HisManySongs]

Atheists are heading for hell, no doubt,

You don't know that for certain. God will deal with them as He sees fit

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

Ah, but I find you spiteful here.

I don't care.

How many people have you led to the Lord?

How should I know? I don't go tallying the results, I just live the best life I can.

Only Holy Spirit can do the work of convincing people of the truth. We are called to speak the truth in love. So, that is what we must do. It matter s not whether an atheist has read the bible or not. He doesn't believe it! He needs to hear the truth from someone who believes it and in whose lives Holy Spirit is alive and working.

You do it your way then, and I'll do it my way.

 

[HisManySongs]

How many people have you led to the Lord?

I don't think we need to be keeping track. God doesn't look at numbers.

Besides it smacks of works. 'Look at what I did.'

 

[Euphemia]

Telling people they're going to hell because of this or that infraction you believe them to be breaking whether they are or not sure sounds WBCish to me.

I don't tell people they are going to hell. More jumping to conclusions, I see!

People aren't cast into hell because of certain sins. They are condemned because of their position before God as unrighteous. That can only be overturned by being covered by the blood of Jesus.

Because this is one of those areas where you claim to speak on behalf of all Christians, and you simply don't. There are many Christian churches welcoming to homosexuals and who don't ask them to live loveless and sexless lives. What is your response to them? That they're not true Christians, I'm guessing, since you yourself don't approve.

I certainly cannot speak for all Christians, but I can speak what God's word says about a matter...and that is what I do in obedience to Him.

Any church that doesn't make a stand for righteousness is a compromised church and not worthy. Homosexuals are more than welcome in our church, and they will hear the truth of God's word every time they come, and if there is no repentance but rather a resistance to the truth and a persistence in holding to their sin, all the while enjoying fellowship with us, then they will be corrected a number of times after which if there is no repentance and they will be asked to leave.

The leadership's first care is for the flock, that it isn't diluted by error or polluted by sin being deemed acceptable.

I choose to believe that God is merciful. If God were the tyrannical monster you are making him out to be where everyone who doesn't believe in Him is whisked off to burn horribly and torturously for an eternity of eternities, I would likely not want to be a Christian. I can't think of a punishment that terrible for any human being that ever existed, regardless of the offense.

God is merciful and His mercy is great---new every morning, in fact! However, there is a time coming where God will set aside His mercy, and the universe will experience His unrestrained wrath. Don't be an ostrich about this fact.

Incidentally, there are Christians who say hell is simply the grave and not a fiery furnace. Did you know that? Are those Christians wrong?

Yes, they are wrong.

In that case you're not just condemning me, but every single Catholic out there, since Catholics don't believe in faith alone for salvation but a combination of faith and works. You are really just digging the hole you're in deeper and deeper every time you make a blanket statement that condemns entire groups of people, you should really do something about that because it's a bad habit.

I condemn no one. You are jumping to conclusions all over the place, aren't you? Now THAT"S a bad habit, mister!

I repeat: NO one is saved by good behaviour, or living a moral life! No one is good! God says so---so please get that clearly.

No one hates God. Either they obey and love Him or they don't believe He's there. People might get angry at God when bad things happen in their lives but I think it's a stretch to say people hate God. Usually when people like you say things like that, what you're really saying is you don't like to be disagreed with and therefore the person you're in dispute with is a hellbound God-hater.

What do you mean, "people like you"??? You are wrong again in your judgmental comments.

Yes, some people hate God. In fact, God tells us that the natural mind is hostile to God!

Romans 8:6-7 (NKJV)
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.