Do You Believe Atheists "choose" To Go To Hell?

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

Are you saying it is them that darkened or they are handed over to a reprobate mind and not God that literally darkened their minds? Eph 4:18 that you quoted is just saying their minds are dark.

It isn't for me to judge other people's minds. They are very complicated. I do NOT believe that most people do things just to be wicked or evil, though.

 

[KingJ]

It isn't for me to judge other people's minds. They are very complicated. I do NOT believe that most people do things just to be wicked or evil, though.

I am asking Euphemia.

So you discern nothing? God wasted His time giving you a brain?

 

[KingJ]

I think we'd agree that 2 + 2 = 4. Is there any way you could convince your brain that it's not? If a person using their brain and their logic has concluded there's no God, do you think they can convince themselves otherwise?

The point I'm making is, I don't think people "brainwash" themselves in these matters, they make a decision by using their brain, and just as you and I think the existence of a God is "dead obvious", to them it's dead obvious there isn't one. Doesn't sound like a vendetta or an angry person to me. And to be fair, most atheists I know seem to be placid enough people.

So in a world where the sun sits in perfect harmony to the rest of our galaxy and where your brain works in harmony with the rest of your body (intelligent design)...this being 100% random is dead obvious? In a realm clearly limited by the laws of physics...it is normal to believe 0+0=1....? Talk about brain dead logic.

I am not gonna have this brain dead conversation with you though as atheists love to focus attention on 'where is God'....missing the real question.

The bottom line is that an atheist has clearly not repented at a depth needed for God to pay them a visit. Atheism will disappear when the anti christ comes. That is the messiah they are waiting for.

My advice to you is to watch yourself among atheists. The devil is not dumb. His lies are woven in there and they appear at face value to be honest and logical. There is no point to argue among ourselves. We are Christians. We discern beyond the carnal realm. You are not doing that here, why? Are you looking for an argument? Are you a Christian?

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

So in a world where the sun sits in perfect harmony to the rest of our galaxy and where your brain works in harmony with the rest of your body (intelligent design)...this being 100% random is dead obvious? In a realm clearly limited by the laws of physics...it is normal to believe 0+0=1....? Talk about brain dead logic.

I am not gonna have this brain dead conversation with you though as atheists love to focus attention on 'where is God'....missing the real question.

The bottom line is that an atheist has clearly not repented at a depth needed for God to pay them a visit. Atheism will disappear when the anti christ comes. That is the messiah they are waiting for.

My advice to you is to watch yourself among atheists. The devil is not dumb. His lies are woven in there and they appear at face value to be honest and logical. There is no point to argue among ourselves. We are Christians. We discern beyond the carnal realm. You are not doing that here, why? Are you looking for an argument? Are you a Christian?

We clearly have a completely different understanding of all things relating to God, love, faith, and life. I'm not going to tar all atheists with the same brush as you are. Everyone's path is different. Some are travelling towards Christianity from atheism, some are going the other way, and everyone's reasons for doing so are different and not for me to judge. The point of this discussion, which I started, was to state very clearly that I don't believe atheists "choose" hell, I think that's ridiculous.

Since you imparted some advice to me, I'll do the same to you. You will only sow discord with people if you judge them without first making an attempt to understand them. That's a lesson I've learned over the years. To answer your last question, yes I'm a Christian but I am someone who lives his Christianity rather than screaming it in people's faces.

 

[KingJ]

We clearly have a completely different understanding of all things relating to God, love, faith, and life. I'm not going to tar all atheists with the same brush as you are. Everyone's path is different. Some are travelling towards Christianity from atheism, some are going the other way, and everyone's reasons for doing so are different and not for me to judge. The point of this discussion, which I started, was to state very clearly that I don't believe atheists "choose" hell, I think that's ridiculous.

Since you imparted some advice to me, I'll do the same to you. You will only sow discord with people if you judge them without first making an attempt to understand them. That's a lesson I've learned over the years. To answer your last question, yes I'm a Christian but I am someone who lives his Christianity rather than screaming it in people's faces.

You are dodging points raised and not dealing with scripture given to you. You just continue with ''do not judge'', ''they are not evil'' . I can see you have been around atheists.

Who said anything about screaming in their faces? What have you done to show them you are a Christian? Have you told them about Jesus? Do you defend Jesus? Have you told them about the need to repent of sins? Or... do you just smile and praise them, nodding your head to everything they say?

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

You are dodging points raised and not dealing with scripture given to you. You just continue with ''do not judge'', ''they are not evil'' . I can see you have been around atheists.

Who said anything about screaming in their faces? What have you done to show them you are a Christian? Have you told them about Jesus? Do you defend Jesus? Have you told them about the need to repent of sins? Or... do you just smile and praise them, nodding your head to everything they say?

I know from experience that giving scripture to people not receptive to receiving it only annoys them. If you are referring to scripture you're using to enlighten me, I have also found that people can use scripture to enforce any point they like, so I'm not going to play that game with you. Yes, I've been around atheists - are you suggesting that I shut them out or snub them? I don't believe they are evil, why do you?

Atheists already KNOW about Jesus, me telling them things about Jesus is going to achieve nothing except irritate them. I tell them I'm Christian and what Jesus has done for me but it ends there, I'm not interested in lecturing and proselytizing. Like I said, clearly we have completely different methods of how we live our Christianity. And when I say "screaming in their faces" I don't mean literally screaming, I mean pointing and prodding my finger at them and lecturing and proselytizing, which does no good at all, ever.

 

[Euphemia]

Euphemia was being snappy earlier because that's the way she always is. Christians are quick to judge others because they think they are superior or have a clearer picture of the truth when that isn't so.

Stop lying and trim that broad brush of judgment.

 

[Euphemia]

Are you saying it is them that darkened or they are handed over to a reprobate mind and not God that literally darkened their minds? Eph 4:18 that you quoted is just saying their minds are dark.

I am saying that people who deliberately choose to believe that there is no God have chosen darkened minds and blind spiritual eyes. That is never God's doing, but both the devil and the person himself. I don't believe that all atheists have a reprobate mind, however. Some have simply jumped on a bandwagon called "Rebellion" until such time as God will get hold of them and wake them up out of that delusion.

 

[KingJ]

I am saying that people who deliberately choose to believe that there is no God have chosen darkened minds and blind spiritual eyes. that is never God's doing, but both the devil and the person himself. I don;t believe that all atheists have a reprobate mind, however. some have simply jumped on a bandwagon called "Rebellion" until such time as God will get hold of them and wake them up out of that delusion.

Agreed. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Euphemia]

You just don't see that you're casting judgments left and right here. You are judging people to have hardened and darkened hearts merely because they disagree with you. When I disagree with someone, it's a disagreement. With you, you're right and the other person's been deceived by Satan. And you don't see anything wrong with this picture?

If that wasn't so off the wall, it would be comical.

I have absolutely no idea what state they're in! It could be anything at all. What I know is that it's their choice, they've made it, maybe for good reasons, maybe for bad reasons, maybe for no reasons at all. That is their right.

Give us an example of a good reason.

I don't judge. Who is to say they're in error? Again, we are not God.

People who are filled with the spirit of God and are familiar with God's word can detect spiritual error. We are called to make certain judgments, or we become easy prey to doctrines of devils.

If I were God, there are quite a few people professing to be Christians whom I wouldn't want putting words in my mouth and speaking on my behalf. You and I have butted heads before on the subject of homosexuality.

So, it is bitterness on your part colouring your behaviour toward me in this forum.

I am a Christian who believes that you don't choose your attractions and that a monogamous relationship is all that matters and all that God wants, but straight AND gay relationships involving things like adultery and promiscuity are the more serious issues. Futhermore, I seem to have the scientific and medical communities on my side in that one. Here's something to consider: What if I'm RIGHT about that? I could be wrong, certainly. My common sense and human rights side tells me I'm not, but I'm going with what I think is right,

God's word says that your beliefs about that subject are wrong. Following your own flesh instincts is usually a mistake.

and if I saw a gay person suffering I would help them just as I would any other person. I think that's what Christ would want. What I DON'T think He'd want is to have His people screaming in that person's face what a vile sinner they are.

Would anyone want that?

I'm glad you think you know what you're talking about, because I sure am struggling to figure it out. I can think of nothing more distasteful than to walk around claiming to speak on God's behalf. I have a little more humility than that.

We are Christ's ambassadors. What do ambassadors do, and who do they speak for? Maybe you can learn something here and stop holding to a false humility, which is really pride turned upside down.

 

[KingJ]

I'm not saying anything is God's fault. I'm just saying that certain people that are searching for the truth don't end up as Christians and I don't understand that. It seems like God would pop out and say, "Here I am," but He doesn't.

James 4:8 tells us that God draws near to those who draw near to Him. So is God at fault or them? It is an 'either / or' statement by you, you realize that?

Whenever I hear anyone say 'if God would just reveal Himself to help their unbelief in...God...not Jesus' I just roll my eyes!!!! They are clearly NOT seeking God.

This is why I harp over and over on the fact that atheists, unsaved, devil are liars! We are simply 'spiritually dumb' to believe anything they say.

 

[HisManySongs]

Give us an example of a good reason.

What matters is that they believe it's a good reason. We might disagree with them, but what they believe is reality to them.

 

[Euphemia]

I know from experience that giving scripture to people not receptive to receiving it only annoys them. If you are referring to scripture you're using to enlighten me, I have also found that people can use scripture to enforce any point they like, so I'm not going to play that game with you. Yes, I've been around atheists - are you suggesting that I shut them out or snub them? I don't believe they are evil, why do you?

Atheists already KNOW about Jesus, me telling them things about Jesus is going to achieve nothing except irritate them. I tell them I'm Christian and what Jesus has done for me but it ends there, I'm not interested in lecturing and proselytizing. Like I said, clearly we have completely different methods of how we live our Christianity. And when I say "screaming in their faces" I don't mean literally screaming, I mean pointing and prodding my finger at them and lecturing and proselytizing, which does no good at all, ever.

That to me is a cop-out. Atheists do not know Jesus or about Him sufficiently. As a Christian, it is your job to tell them. You are commanded to do so.

You believing they are not evil is a silly statement when in reality, according to God---they ARE---and they are heading for hellfire. Do you really love others enough to try to snatch them from the fire? Or do you love them the way the world does and nod and pat their heads as they walk down that wide path to destruction? In the end, when they stand before God and face His wrath, will they be able to point to you and screech, "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME ABOUT JESUS???"

 

[Euphemia]

What matters is that they believe it's a good reason. We might disagree with them, but what they believe is reality to them.

Yes, what they deem a good reason is only their own idea. However the member who said that they have a good reason seems to agree with them. I would like for him to answer my request, thanks.

 

[HisManySongs]

That to me is a cop-out. Atheists do not know Jesus or about Him sufficiently. As a Christian, it is your job to tell them. You are commanded to do so.

You believing they are not evil is a silly statement when in reality, according to God---they ARE---and they are heading for hellfire. Do you really love others enough to try to snatch them from the fire? Or do you love them the way the world does and nod and pat their heads as they walk down that wide path to destruction? In the end, when they stand before God and face His wrath, will they be able to point to you and screech, "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME ABOUT JESUS???"

Yes, it is our job, but pounding them over the head with Scripture isn't the most effective way.

As Augustine said - 'preach the Gospel, use words if necessary.'

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

If that wasn't so off the wall, it would be comical.

Thanks, that means SO much coming from you.

Give us an example of a good reason.

All right. Maybe they grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church. But based on your answers thus far, you might be a fan of theirs, so maybe that's not a good example.

People who are filled with the spirit of God and are familiar with God's word can detect spiritual error. We are called to make certain judgments, or we become easy prey to doctrines of devils.

People who are filled with the milk of human kindness can detect when certain Christians overlook more obvious explanations for things before rushing straight to the idea of "devils" being the culprit.

So, it is bitterness on your part colouring your behaviour toward me in this forum.

Here you are suggesting that atheists condemn themselves to hell, and you're calling ME bitter?

God's word says that your beliefs about that subject are wrong. Following your own flesh instincts is usually a mistake.

Well, I don't answer to you, I answer to God, and for the umpteenth time, you're not God, you don't speak for God, and your interpretations of scripture are highly suspect

We are Christ's ambassadors. What do ambassadors do, and who do they speak for? Maybe you can learn something here and stop holding to a false humility, which is really pride turned upside down.

I'm learning plenty here, mostly about you. Allowing people to live their lives isn't false humility and I'm really amazed that you could find ANYTHING prideful in it.

 

[Huntingteckel]

Stop lying and trim that broad brush of judgment.

That's hilarious coming from you but this was probably the point of God is Love's post anyway. Conspiracy!

James 4:8 tells us that God draws near to those who draw near to Him. So is God at fault or them? It is an 'either / or' statement by you, you realize that?

Whenever I hear anyone say 'if God would just reveal Himself to help their unbelief in...God...not Jesus' I just roll my eyes!!!! They are clearly NOT seeking God.

This is why I harp over and over on the fact that atheists, unsaved, devil are liars! We are simply 'spiritually dumb' to believe anything they say.

From a Calvinists point of view anyone being saved or unsaved is up to God and man has nothing to do with it. So yes, if Calvinism is true than anyone going to hell is God's fault.

Since I'm not a Calvinist, I don't know what I feel about it. You are a liar too, KingJ. Same as me and the unsaved. I do not believe that every atheist is lying when they say they've read the Bible or that they've tried praying. They are the same as us except Jesus forgives our sins and gives us a fresh start daily only to screw up again.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

That to me is a cop-out. Atheists do not know Jesus or about Him sufficiently. As a Christian, it is your job to tell them. You are commanded to do so.

It's quite amazing to me that not only do you speak on God's behalf, but you can condemn ALL atheists with one statement like that even though you know nothing about them or the experiences they've had. The Jehovah's Witnesses take the message of proselytizing literally by going door to door, and they are despised roundly for that behaviour. Still think it's a good idea?

You believing they are not evil is a silly statement when in reality, according to God---they ARE---and they are heading for hellfire. Do you really love others enough to try to snatch them from the fire? Or do you love them the way the world does and nod and pat their heads as they walk down that wide path to destruction? In the end, when they stand before God and face His wrath, will they be able to point to you and screech, "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME ABOUT JESUS???"

That's a very warped belief you have there, assuming you are serious - it's as hellish and nightmarish as anything you'd see in one of those ridiculous Jack Chick tracts. That is no kind of Christianity to be following. Find me ONE atheist who hasn't heard about Jesus. Good luck. My findings is they all know already, it's kind of hard to live in this day and age and NOT know. They've made their choices, they don't need people nagging at them, it's only going to drive them away. You want people to become Christians? Lead by example. They will be much more impressed by your kind actions than your screaming rage.

 

[Euphemia]

Yes, it is our job, but pounding them over the head with Scripture isn't the most effective way.

As Augustine said - 'preach the Gospel, use words if necessary.'

I don't know anyone who does that. Do you? If you have a relationship with someone who professes atheism, would you simply think, "Oh, they have made their choice and for a good reason to them---so be it."???

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

I don't know anyone who does that. Do you? If you have a relationship with someone who professes atheism, would you simply think, "Oh, they have made their choice and for a good reason to them---so be it."???

Um, yeah. I might not agree with their reason but I can still respect their reasons for making it.