Huntingteckel
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What do you mean?
Do You Believe Atheists "choose" To Go To Hell?
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Huntingteckel
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Oh, okay. I knew that made no sense.
Everyone has a choice to accept Jesus Christ, so when you said "Some people are genuinely seeking the truth and they don't get led to Christianity but instead into atheism or another religion" I disagree because it is their choice if they become an atheist or start practicing some religion. God has no fault in the choices made by men. I interpreted you think that it is God's fault that certain people become atheist or led into another religion. Correct me if i'm wrong on your viewpoint, I don't want to be mistaken.
Huntingteckel
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I'm not saying anything is God's fault. I'm just saying that certain people that are searching for the truth don't end up as Christians and I don't understand that. It seems like God would pop out and say, "Here I am," but He doesn't.
PeaceLikeaRiver
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Unless they don't regard scripture in the same way you do. If they don't believe scripture is the word of God it should not be surprising they make the choices they do. But regardless, it is their choice to make and NOT YOURS.
An atheist believes differently than we do, but it is not our place to judge them for it. The Lord will handle it.
Did you or did you not say that atheists have darkened minds?
I think I've already made it pretty clear that I'm not going to get into a scripture-quoting contest with you. You have already shown many times that you think nothing of speaking on God's behalf. And I think I've given enough examples of you speaking as though you are God when you are not.
Romans 12:3 should fit nicely in this situation: "For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned."[/QUOTE]
If you knew anything about Christianity you would know that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as their savior before they die is going to hell. No one ever said we are judging, WE ARE TRYING TO HELP THE PEOPLE WHO ARENT SAVED. Do you forget that we are suppose to spread the Gospel?
http://www.openbible.info/topics/spreading_the_gospel
Do you want people to go to hell?
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Ok I understand now. Might I give some advice and say, even though you might not understand everything about everything Hunting, when you understand God's nature you don't need to know everything anymore because your questions are already answered by knowing God.
Huntingteckel
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I don't think he's saying we shouldn't spread the gospel, but I could be wrong. Also, many Christians hold the Universalism view. That doesn't make them less of a Christian.
I know I don't, and never will, know everything. Why is it that people feel the need to say things like this when I disagree with them?
Ah but there is
Romans 2:11-16 (KJV)
For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
God reveals Himself in and through scripture. Men's hardened hearts keep them from Him. I don't claim to have the right to make people's choices for them, so your remark about that is inane.
We can certainly judge that they are in error. Their minds are darkened by the evil one. They certainly aren't enlightened by God, are they?
If you did, you'd only lose. As a Christian---as with all Christians---we have the privilege and the responsibility of speaking for God. We do that by speaking the word of God and speaking the truth that comes from it.
Knowing God and His word is not something to be boasting about. It is something we need to do. I think you are merely intimidated by someone who happens to know what she is talking about and so you seek to denigrate. It's only the flesh talking, there.
Proverbs 28:1 (NLT)
The wicked run away when no one is chasing them,
but the godly are as bold as lions.
What do you mean? I wasn't being condescending if that is how you feel, I was just saying something that I thought might be nice to hear. Maybe "advice" was the wrong word, i'm sorry if my message somehow offended you, that wasn't my intention. I will mention though that it feels to me like you are quick to jump to being defensive over things that aren't meant to be insulting, like my earlier post when it was pretty obvious I had accidentally responded to you, or how you've been talking to Euphemia earlier in this thread, or how a simple thing I say leads you to ask why "people feel the need to say things like this when I disagree with them".
Huntingteckel
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What I mean is that people tell me that like I'm not a Christian yet or haven't achieved some spiritual level that will make me on par with others.
Euphemia was being snappy earlier because that's the way she always is. Christians are quick to judge others because they think they are superior or have a clearer picture of the truth when that isn't so.
It wasn't clear that you accidentally quoted me earlier. I reread it a few times because it didn't make sense, but if the thought had even crossed my mind that it was an accident I wouldn't have responded the way I did.
The spiritual man judges all things 1 Cor 2:15. The spiritual man knows we don't pass judgment on the unsaved 1 Cor 5:13 as they don't know any better 1 Cor 15:10.
As 'God is love' said, they have chosen to live a life, believing there is no God. Most sinners believe God understands them and will have mercy and some drinks with them in heaven. Atheists choose daily to brainwash themselves / entertain a belief that there is no God / swim 100% against the current of logic? Why would someone swim 100% against what should be dead obvious? Has to be mortal sin or vendetta with God.
Don't forget Prov 27:6.
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Are you saying it is them that darkened or they are handed over to a reprobate mind and not God that literally darkened their minds? Eph 4:18 that you quoted is just saying their minds are dark.
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G
guest4
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Deuteronomy 30:15-20
According to that we all have a choice. I believe its called free will.
According to that we all have a choice. I believe its called free will.
PeaceLikeaRiver
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I question your methods. I am a Christian myself and what you call helping the unsaved I call annoying and proselytizing. Do you appreciate having Jehovah's Witnesses coming to your door to give you THEIR version of Christianity?
I don't believe a loving God sends people to hell for most of the reasons you probably do. Which is interesting to me because you are the one with the name God is Love.
PeaceLikeaRiver
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I have no problem with people spreading the gospel, but so many distort it and infuse their own prejudices and so forth that it often ends up coming out as a bit of a hodgepodge.
PeaceLikeaRiver
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You just don't see that you're casting judgments left and right here. You are judging people to have hardened and darkened hearts merely because they disagree with you. When I disagree with someone, it's a disagreement. With you, you're right and the other person's been deceived by Satan. And you don't see anything wrong with this picture?
I have absolutely no idea what state they're in! It could be anything at all. What I know is that it's their choice, they've made it, maybe for good reasons, maybe for bad reasons, maybe for no reasons at all. That is their right. I don't judge. Who is to say they're in error? Again, we are not God.
If I were God, there are quite a few people professing to be Christians whom I wouldn't want putting words in my mouth and speaking on my behalf. You and I have butted heads before on the subject of homosexuality. I am a Christian who believes that you don't choose your attractions and that a monogamous relationship is all that matters and all that God wants, but straight AND gay relationships involving things like adultery and promiscuity are the more serious issues. Futhermore, I seem to have the scientific and medical communities on my side in that one. Here's something to consider: What if I'm RIGHT about that? I could be wrong, certainly. My common sense and human rights side tells me I'm not, but I'm going with what I think is right, and if I saw a gay person suffering I would help them just as I would any other person. I think that's what Christ would want. What I DON'T think He'd want is to have His people screaming in that person's face what a vile sinner they are.
I'm glad you think you know what you're talking about, because I sure am struggling to figure it out. I can think of nothing more distasteful than to walk around claiming to speak on God's behalf. I have a little more humility than that.
PeaceLikeaRiver
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I think we'd agree that 2 + 2 = 4. Is there any way you could convince your brain that it's not? If a person using their brain and their logic has concluded there's no God, do you think they can convince themselves otherwise?
The point I'm making is, I don't think people "brainwash" themselves in these matters, they make a decision by using their brain, and just as you and I think the existence of a God is "dead obvious", to them it's dead obvious there isn't one. Doesn't sound like a vendetta or an angry person to me. And to be fair, most atheists I know seem to be placid enough people.
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