Do Christians Need Guns?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Where is the Messiah, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. As I would counsel you, it is not our human experience that God protects Christians from all harm. But rather I would read these things as saying that God protects us from that evil entering our spirit. He says, "Fear not he who can destroy the body but not the souls, but rather fear He who can destroy both the body and the soul in Hell." IMO that means Christians can still be harmed in the body, so don't give in to worldly pressure. And if carrying a gun abolishes that fear, more power to you.
     
  2. Well you have to understand that the use of a gun in justice is not in conflict with true faith. Just as the sword is not held in vain by ministers of justice. In our society and according t our laws the citizens are also ministers of justice according to the laws. To protect the weak against the wicked is love and God reflects His approval of this sort of justice in the scriptures.
     
    Major likes this.
  3. Not sure how that relates to the point I was making?
     
  4. Messiah made an observation about the Zimmerman/Martin case and said something to the effect he wasn't sure if a gun was the right option. Per Zimmerman possessing a concealed permitted weapon at the time he was attacked by Martin.
    You stated that the same could be said about a knife.

    On the periphery, as would relate to the Zimmerman case even though a knife was never at issue there, my comment basically addressed the proximity issue in defense against an aggressive offender like Martin. And the skill set that would be required in wielding a blade in the same self defense scenario as that presented in Zimmerman/Martin case.

    Further, in most states one has more freedom to carry a knife, blade allowances vary state to state, than one does with a firearm.
     
  5. Come into my house I the middle of the night and shots will be fired. The first couple may be into the wall or something if the situation dictates but that is not a guarantee. The guarantee is that shots WILL be fired. Period.





    It's actually the best weapon for an untrained individual. A LOT of damage can be done with a knife in the hands of an untrained individual. And if someone comes at me with a knife from a close distance, I'll go hands-on before I try to draw my gun. Again, the situation dictates the response.




    Wanna hear something funny? I'd be ok with 100% total gun eradication. Meaning no person, no country, no police force, no army, etc., has guns. No guns on the face of the planet whatsoever. Like in medieval times. But, alas, that will never happen so, the more the better!

    Regarding the last part, I have enough faith to believe the Lord will protect me. THAT'S WHY I HAVE GUNS! I've tried to get this point across but I don't believe I have done a good job of it. I believe the Lord is protecting me by giving me my love of weapons and my desire to become proficient with them. Does that make sense? The Lord will protect you, yes. But have you ever stopped to think that maybe me or someone like me could be sent by God to do said protecting if the need arose?
     
    Major, KingJ and Mitspa says Amen and like this.
  6. ok I see your point...yes
     
    Scripture Bird likes this.
  7. A knife?
    We'll have to disagree that a knife is the best weapon in the hands of an untrained individual.

    Combat skills vary among trained individuals, and I agree the situation dictates the actions taken. It's instinct and training that kicks in in aggressive offender situations.
    I can't say I'd let someone get close to me for a one on one hand to hand, were I armed.
    That was, since the case was already brought into this discussion, the issue between Zimmerman and Martin.

    Martin got the upper hand on Zimmerman and had him supine on the ground pummeling him physically when Martin realized Zimmerman had a gun in his waistband.
    Martin went for the gun so as to finish the job he started with his hands.
     
    TH420X likes this.
  8. I understand.
    Here's a thought...

    Will the Lord protect us from all evil? Of course. Does this mean we may never be attacked by anyone or anything? No, of course not. Many people devoted to God have suffered greatly, and not just from natural causes, but at the hands of evil-doers. From St. Stephen, the first martyr, to so many slaves--young and old, to the victims of the Holocaust in Europe, to so many Christians in the Middle East today...and of course, many people domestically.

    God's protection from evil doesn't mean we can walk out into a war zone of evil and test Him. While an illness doesn't necessarily mean evil, we do our best to combat illnesses through medication, surgeries, etc -- unless you're a Christian Scientist, you find the necessity of taking these precautions, and we know it doesn't interject with God. To cause harm to ourselves would mean that.

    I'm not suggesting a Christian needs a gun like the thread title says...it's really up to the individual just as it's up to us if we want to get a bicycle helmet or a fishing pole. But I am trying to offer an explanation on why owning a gun 1) doesn't mean you don't trust God, and 2) doesn't mean evil will come of it. With everything we do and own, we have a Christian responsibility to do the right thing. Self-defense or more importantly, defense of one's family, I think is not only a good thing, but an obligation, whether it is done with a gun, a bat, or a watchdog.
     
    TH420X likes this.
  9. You're spot on other than I believe a spazzed out monkey with a knife is insanely dangerous. But the rest, yes. [emoji41]




    [emoji120] [emoji106] [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122] [emoji109] [emoji120]
     
  10. That's well stated.

    Let me poke at it a little :)

    Do you think those whose family defense plan is limited to prayer, or "run away and let them have the house" are in sin?

    Also, to make it historically categorical, what if the aggressor is the state (who does not bear the sword in vain)? Are/were Christians who submit to persecution from the state in sin for not protecting their families?
     
    Where is the Messiah likes this.
  11. Yeah, well in that case having a double barrel that shoots peeled bananas goes a long way to curb spaz knife wielding monkeys.

    Or, so I've heard. (cough) :p


    [​IMG]
     
    TH420X and DavidG say Amen and like this.
  12. [emoji13] [emoji1]
     
  13. I always like your posts. They are thought provoking. If it be the Lord's will, I will live, and if it be the Lord's will for me to die, I will die.


    Did Elijah need a gun? Was he testing God when he said this:

    "Elijah answered the captain, "If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!" Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men."


    In my opinion, for a believer, it's not really up to the believer. The believer should be seeking God in everything that he does. Even if he wants a bicycle helmet or a fishing pole, he should say if it be the will of the Lord. Of course I would never walk into a war zone on my own will, but if it is God's will for me to walk into that war zone, whom then shall I fear?
     
    MMurphy likes this.
  14. Great questions.
    I don't think they're in sin for running away and not protecting the house. In fact, for some, that may be their only option. I'm only suggesting that defense is not a sin either provided it is done with the sole purpose of defending, not abusing.

    The State many times unfortunately is the aggressor. Thomas Jefferson wrote extensively on this and how people need to hold the State to the same level of morality as anyone else. I could give you countless stories of just 2014 alone where the police have invaded and abused their role. I hate to be that guy using the tired analogy, but would we blame the family man in 1941 Warsaw who used a gun to protect his family when the Nazis entered his home? Not to murder them, but to use all precautions in order to protect his family...
     
    Where is the Messiah and DavidG say Amen and like this.
  15. Let me ask you this, it is written that Christ has healed our every sickness..That the prayer of faith will deliver the sick, so according to your logic, is it wrong to seek medical help? Or does God work in all these things according to the faith we have?
     
  16. You would never choose to join the army? Even if the enemy is Hitler...who just gassed your entire family and is doing medical experiments on your little brother?
     
  17. In WITM's defense, his decision of whether to join the army or not is beside the point. It is a decision he would make on his own behalf, regardless of the enemy. No one's individual behavior or decisions dictates an object truth.
     
    Where is the Messiah, DavidG and Major says Amen and like this.
  18. There is a real difference between .......
    " but I do get worried when that seems to be taken all the way to a gun slinging, don't tread on me, sort of spirit."....

    And the defense of your family, home and yourself in times of break-ins, robbery and the like.

    I must say again, Jesus was not a pacifist and the Bible clearly tells us that a man who does not provide and care for his family, is less than an infidel.

    If a man wants to be a pacifist then by all means.....be one. We all need to be what we believe God wants us to be. But may I remind you of a Bible verse which speaks to everyone.

    Romans 14:5.....
    "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind".

    That means we are all at different levels of growth and understanding and what might be right for one man may not be right for another. This is all about non-essential Bible doctrines and has no effect on the salvation of man so it actually comes down to what we are taught and convicted of by the Holy Spirit of God.

    Personally, I was raised by one of the greatest Christians men to ever have lived. He was an old fashioned farmer from Alabama. He was totally disabled in WW2 and he taught me to never ever be a door mat or to be pushed around or over. I guess that has stuck with me now for my whole life and it is one of the reasons why I get feisty over certain issues here on this forum when some people become personal in their attacks.

    So there you have it. It is what it is and if you are like me, God bless us both. I see absolutely no reason in the Scriptures to be anyones door mat. Love all.....YES.
     
    DavidG likes this.
  19. There is a real difference between .......
    " but I do get worried when that seems to be taken all the way to a gun slinging, don't tread on me, sort of spirit."....

    And the defense of your family, home and yourself in times of break-ins, robbery and the like.

    I must say again, Jesus was not a pacifist and the Bible clearly tells us that a man who does not provide and care for his family, is less than an infidel.

    If a man wants to be a pacifist then by all means.....be one. We all need to be what we believe God wants us to be. But may I remind you of a Bible verse which speaks to everyone.

    Romans 14:5.....
    "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind".

    That means we are all at different levels of growth and understanding and what might be right for one man may not be right for another. This is all about non-essential Bible doctrines and has no effect on the salvation of man so it actually comes down to what we are taught and convicted of by the Holy Spirit of God.

    Personally, I was raised by one of the greatest Christians men to ever have lived. He was an old fashioned farmer from Alabama. He was totally disabled in WW2 and he taught me to never ever be a door mat or to be pushed around or over. I guess that has stuck with me now for my whole life and it is one of the reasons why I get feisty over certain issues here on this forum when some people become personal in their attacks.

    So there you have it. It is what it is and if you are like me, God bless us both. I see absolutely no reason in the Scriptures to be anyones door mat. Love all.....YES.
     
  20. My dear brother......are you aware of the phrase: "God helps those who help themselves"????

    Many people believe that it is the most often quoted phrase that is not found in the Bible. This saying is usually attributed to Ben Franklin, quoted in Poor Richard's Almanac in 1757.

    Although the actual words are not in the Bible, the doctrine of "Implied Truth" teaches exactly that.

    Apart from salvation, there is perhaps a way that the concept "God helps those who help themselves" is correct. As an example, if you asked me to help you move a piece of furniture, but then just watched me as I moved the furniture for you, I was not actually helping you. I would be doing the work for you. Many Christians fall into the trap of inactivity. Many Christians ask God for help, but then expect God to do everything Himself. They excuse this by pointing to the fact that God will provide according to His will and in His timing. However, this is not a reason for inactivity. As a specific example, if you are in need of a job, ask the Lord to help you find a job - but then be active in actually looking for a job. While it is in His power to do so, it is highly unlikely that God will cause employers to come looking for you!

    Same thing applies to those who believe in God and have complete faith in Him, but still have a weapon in the possession.

    Something I was told a long time ago applies here I think.

    God made the birds and God made the worms. But God did not put the worms in the birds mouth. He has to go out and do that for himself.
     

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