PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Well, here's the thing. I read the thread as an absolute newcomer and identified where I thought the division was occurring. I'm not even taking sides, just showing the area where I thought people were beginning to diverge.
Do Angels Have An Earthly Ministry Today?
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
I realize that my brother. However that is exactly what happens in many gatherings and churches today when angels are place in such high reguard by men.
I understand. And you are right that that fact will leave dividing answers.
Perhaps, but no one is even doing that -- or suggesting that.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Does this actually happen Major, or is it merely the perception? I've yet to meet a human being who exalted angels, the Pope, Mary, the saints, or statues over Jesus Christ.
That I like a lot!
Catholic and Protestants have been at odds for what.....500 years give or take a 100. There is no way we will reconcile those differences on a web site.
The best we can do is state our differences, be nice to each other and move on to something else.
Well sir......you can call me a Bible only person when it comes to Christian doctrine.
Generally I would say not correct. Most here, I suspect, seek and read other sources for complimentary and a more complete learning. But where the Bible gives strong indications on topics, such as angels and how we regard them, we should use it to verify traditions and teachings that may have been skewed by people looking for prominence in the church, or those trying to get their own worldview legitimized.
I for one, am very quick to check out other sources, such as historical ones, to get a better feel for why and how things happened the way they did.
The Bible is inerrant.. while Tradition is not inerrant.
A Tradition (can be errant) can be subjected to a test by the Bible (inerrant) …. and cannot be the other way around…
Thus, this very topic: is a Tradition being tested if it is accordance with the Bible.
Say, the practice of hurting oneself during Lenten season: it is a Tradition: but it is not recognize as a doctrine/instruction by the Catholic Church.
That is how I see it….
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
But the issue here is the matter of authority. My statement was that for Bible-0nly Christians, there is no authority outside of the Bible. Meaning that you would not be willing to accept a church teaching, for example, regarding angels, if it were not mentioned in the Bible. Not so?
Yes it does.
Google "Angels" and see what you get.
Next time you go to a book store, check out the Christian section and note how many books there are on Angels, Angel Worship and so on. It is not over whelming but it is none the less there. In my own church, we had to dismiss a teacher several years ago because they were using non-Biblical materials to teach the doctrine of angels and how they were just as effective as is Jesus.
I agree with you that many people do mistakenly re-direct their worship when they shouldn't. But just because that happens doesn't mean talking to others, being friends with others, even admiring others, is wrong.
We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
To answer, I'll give an example. Let's say there is this teaching about the purpose of angels. I would pour through all mentions of angels in the Bible, look online for commentaries on the issue, both current and historical, and look for possible agreement with actual statements in the Bible or, if not specifically addressed, the spirit and attitude of the Bible towards the subject, always looking for contextual meaning.
So I could accept a teaching not mentioned in the Bible as long as it had zero instances of conflicting with the Bible, and it fit with the related concepts specific to the Bible.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
With that in mind, I apologize for my "Bible-only" people aren't willing to look outside the Bible" quote. It appears I was wrong. I have learned something. Many of the "Bible only" people I know reject anything not in the Bible as being "unbiblical" (when a better word in fact would be "nonbiblical").
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
If you read up on angels a little bit you also see that they're not specific to Christian belief, there are other faiths that have angels and they seem also to figure in pagan circles.
People always ask: what do we do in heaven? We minister. Some may play a vital part, we don't know. Here's what I'm saying. If you trace back who John is trying to worship, Rev 19:10, you see this "fellowservant and of thy brethren" is one of the 7-trumpet angels. So one must understand what an "angel" really is. In the letters to the churches the "angel" was the pastor. The word "angel" in Greek means: a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God, and in Hebrew: messenger, representative. So who then are the "men in white linen"? The Church:
Revelation 19:8 (KJV)
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Revelation 19:14 (KJV)
And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Think about it... don't rely on 12th-20th century paintings...
Revelation 19:8 (KJV)
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Revelation 19:14 (KJV)
And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Think about it... don't rely on 12th-20th century paintings...
"sent forth" ( apostello )tells us the Ministering Spirits were, and are, set aside and were, and are, sent forth. Heb 13:2 tells us that in the past people have entertained angels unawares as a lesson for the reader.
Why would there need to be a reminder to show hospitability to strangers, because they may be Angels, if Angels didn't visit them/us anymore ?
G649
ἀποστέλλω
apostellō
ap-os-tel'-lo
From G575 and G4724; set apart, that is, (by implication) to send out (properly on a mission) literally or figuratively: - put in, send (away, forth, out), set [at liberty].
Yeah it's a very special reminder of the hierachy in Yahweh's Kingdom. Jesus is Lord !
Hebrews may have been written to the Messianic Jew but I don't see why Yahweh would only send His Angels to aid them alone. "No Jew nor Greek" etc. Every believer is an Heir of Salvation.
Gal 4:6-7 KJV And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. (7) Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
When do you suggest Yahweh's angels stopped ministering to believers and/or the Jews ?
I think it's interesting that some Jews didn't/don't believe in Angels. The Sadducees I think.
Act 23:8-9 KJV For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both. (9) And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.
We know it was Jesus Himself that spoke to Paul but the Pharisees knew Angels could communicate with men.
Act 23:8-9 KJV For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both. (9) And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.
We know it was Jesus Himself that spoke to Paul but the Pharisees knew Angels could communicate with men.
True. The Saducees then are what we would call Agnostic or Atheistic Jews today. Secularlized some might even say.
IMO it was when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit after He ascended to heaven. There seems to be no angels ministering in the New Test., however thy are once again prominent in the Tribulation period. The thing missing from the Tribulation is the Holy Spirit so once again angels return to aid the "HEIRS of salvation......Jews. That is just my opinion. No one has to agree. It is just something for everyone to think about. That is way we are here!!