Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by smellycat, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. diseases.

    Jesus said about this ,satan has bound people.but when his friend died he said God did this.what do you all think about this/?
  2. Well, when God cursed the earth for man's sake back in Genesis, He stated weeds and thistles would grow. Basically, you can relate that to diseases then that would become present that were never known in the state of perfection.

    But consider this as well-

    Back in the "dust bowl" "dirty 30's" drought, when all good plant life quit growing, the weeds of the earth were what farmers fed thier livestock to keep them alive.

    So think about it, even tho most people would not consider this at all, but that God can use disease for good even tho its primary reason for being here is rooted in evil.

    Disease may afflict us negatively, it has still helped man grow in knowledge 1- how to combat it, 2- more how our bodies work, 3- Have seen them bring people to Salvation from God.

    But, Christ declared several times during His Ministry, negative things afflicting certain people, were seen at His time, for the Glory of God to be seen thru Christ's miracles, generational curses plus more.

    I believe the same reasoning are all as valid today, as they were in Christ's time. There are healings, restorations of marriages and more to Glorify God, yet there are still generational curses and the rest that I believe still appear today yet too.

    Christ's miracles as He stated still occur thru God's Children who believe and stand on God's Word for that, as well as the rest.

    God Bless!!
  3. Curse

    I thought we were free from the curses?
  4. Only from the curse of eternal damnation if we're born again. We're still subject to the pain, sickness, trials and tribulations of this life.
  5. Wait a minute........

    I should have been more clear. Simple question. What Curses? How bout some scriptures?

    The post started out from Smellycat about some friend dying. What friend? What was the situation. It was almost looking like Jesus had a friend that died and He blamed God for that. That's not in any scripture.

    Then the next post talks about God cursing the earth for man's sake. How is the curse a benefit to man? What was the purpose of he curse? A whole list of them are in Deut 28.

    Then in the middle of Christian Commando's response He quoted:

    What scripture is that? Generational curses? There are no scriptures for that If I am to assume that sin passed down through family lines effecting the living today. If that is what is meant. Once again no scripture given.

    So, I asked a question. "What curses." The original poster never responded. I did get a response.

    thank you brother for the response.

    So, I can accept the curse of eternal damnation even though it's not really put that way in the word. I suppose my next question still stands.

    Generational curse...........What does this mean.
    God cursed the earth for mans sake. Why would He do that?

    and is there anything we can do when going through pain, sickness, trials and tribulations. I know Jesus said we will have tribulation in this life. Is there any thing we can do about this or is this the will of God and we just deal with it?

    any help here?

    God Bless everyone!!!
    Jesus Is Lord.
  6. Jesus,s friend died,and Jesus said God did this.but in every other account about diseases etc it was satan.
  7. "Does God curse people for the sins of others? "

    "The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity..."Ezekiel 18:20NASB"...

    for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
    "Exodus 20:5 NASB

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The first passage clearly states God does not curse people for the guilt of others while the latter appears God does. So which is it? The correct answer is he does not. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Passages such as those in Exodus which state God "visits the iniquity" of the fathers on the children to the third or fourth generation is referring to the consequences of the fathers' sins. Sin (iniquity) not only hurts sinners, but can also hurt those around them; especially family, and not just confined to the generation at hand. The effects of sin can be lasting. Few think about this when they sin, so God's warning is in good order. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It's not like if your father murdered someone, God then says you're a murderer, too. It's more like your father's act results in you grow up being teased, harassed, and developing an inferiority complex, and God points to the situation to say, "Here's yet more reasons why I don't want any of you murdering each other." He's not jumping the guilt from one person to the next, he's just allowing the effects. These effects can be both bad and multi-generational, but that is all part of why we should not sin in the first place.

    Exodus 20:5 is simply stating that a father's sins can effect his children for generations to come .

    As children we learn a great deal from our fathers and tend to be like them in many ways .

    God Bless Everyone !
  8. Awesome

    God bless you Tracer!!! A straight answer with scripture.

    for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"Exodus 20:5 NASB

    after reading your post I noticed the other condition was those that continue in the ways of their father and hate God.

    Children do learn from their parents, but it's just learned behavior and not some spiritual malevolent curse.

    Once again.. That clears up some stuff.
    God Bless !!!!

    Jesus Is Lord.
  9. I'm new to this site and I do not want to step on toes. I am wondering though, Christian Commando, why you say God cursed the Earth for Adams sake. God does not curse anyone or anything. He is life and curses are under the dominion of death. If you wish God is the Life cycle and Satan is the death cycle. Curses are part of death.
    What God was saying to Adam is that (paraphrased) Since you sinned you are now living under the curse of sin. All that you do or have will be under that curse, until you eventuall succumb to that curse.
    Later on when God made covenant with Abraham He made a way for us to come out from under that curse. See how the Amplified bible says it;
    Genesis 3:17-19 (Amplified Bible)

    17 And to Adam He said, Because you have listened and given heed to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it, the ground is under a curse because of you; in sorrow and toil shall you eat [of the fruits] of it all the days of your life.

    18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth for you, and you shall eat the plants of the field.
    19 In the sweat of your face shall you eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return.

    (Wow! That pasted funny)

    But you see God was not cursing the Earth, He was telling Adam the result of his decision and action.
  10. Awesome

    Denadii Cho Great post!!!!!

    God did not curse anything. God told Adam to protect the Garden. Adam obeyed Satan making Satan his god.

    Man had fallen and Satan now had control over what God Gave to Adam.
    The effects of sin and death flooded the earth as the earth had a New god of this world.

    2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    That's god with a little g.

    This was not God's choice....... Think about it. you create angels and they rebel and go against you. Then you decide to reproduce yourself. A man that is just like you. that man commits high treason against you.

    God never made anything to fail. Never..............
    I thank God He made a way for us.

    Jesus Is Lord.
  11. Wow!! Brother Mike I just LOVE being right!!

    LOL The reason following the enemy is so bad and only death follows, is that Satan has no LIFE God is LIFE and Satan and his hordes stepped out of LIFE. To follow Satan then is to do the same. To step from LIFE into darkness and death. Is that correct?
  12. correct :D
  13. Gen. 3:14-18-

    14- "And the Lord God said unto the serprent, Because thou hast done this, THOU ART CURSED, above all cattle, above every beast of the field; upon thy belly thou shalt go, and dust shalt thou eat, all the days of thy life.

    16- Unto the woman He said- I WILL GREATLY MULTIPLY THY SORROW AND THY CONCEPTION; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    17- And unto Adam He said, Because thou hast harkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, thou shalt not eat of it: CURSED IS THE GROUND FOR THY SAKE, ...

    So, God never curses anyone or anything huh? Hhhhhmmmm, doesn't come across that way to me people.

    18- "Thorns and Thistles shall it bring forth to thee",

    This was the whole reason I mentioned every aspect I did about whats shown in Scripture-

    SmellyCats' exact words were- "Jesus said about this, Satan has bound people. But when His friend died, He said God did this. What do you all think?"

    So, I answered the question with God's Truth-

    Jesus declared some diseases effect us because of generational curses, some were present to Glorify God, Also because Satan is the author of Death, father of lies, god of this world, etc, we are subject thru disease by Satan's attacks.

    I would suggest before declaring things from our own view point, we study all Scripture for all related Scripture for the most accuracy in responces.

    Yes, Jesus had said with some people, they are bound by Satan with a disease. But Jesus also pointed out some diseases, some deformities, etc were present by God, in order they be healed as signs of the power of God being present. Some were a curse of some type.

    You'll find, Jesus healed people by forgiveness of sins, one of thier own sins, another of a generational curse.

    I showed all examples Scriptures show, that we not limit Christ to only that which was asked about. But all aspects, so we better understand the "scope" of teaching God was trying to apply for our understanding more how things work.

    Read and study God's Word to show ourselves approved in rightly dividing Truth. Let us consider all related Scripture for best all around understanding. Too often is the misconception of Scriptures because of lacking pertinant related ones.

    God Bless!!
  14. I'm not sure what the conversation is about but let's look at it this way.

    God curses those who bring the curse upon themselves.
    Yes God can curse. and He can take it away as easily as He can give peace and take peace away.

    If we bring curse upon ourselves (disobeying God through sin) then He'll curse us eventually. either with blindness to His Word, by death (those who lied to the Holy Spirit in Acts 5) or any other plague and Curse (Revelation is full of them, to those who disobey the LORD).

    but we have to bring it upon ourselves, He won't do it for no reason. He is just.

    I think I understand Cho's interpretation. that God is Life. and around Him we have life, but when we get out of His presence (dismissing Him) then we are no longer part of eternal life but death and curse. That's what you were saying Cho?
  15. Thanks C. C..... Those are very good points.
    I am thinking also of people who are crippled and are being used by God and say that if they were not the way they were they probably would not serve and rely on God the way they do . I am thinking of Joni Toda and she has done some amazing work and beautiful books and poetry. There is a guy from Australia who has no arms and no legs and he preaches . He is propped up on a table so people can see him. Now to me that is inspiring .
    I also know a former patient of mine who is a paraplegic and he paints with his mouth... Beautiful painting .

    Point is sometimes God in His Sovreinity leaves people in that state for His glory and only He knows who can be the blessing to others. God ways are higher than ours and His thoughts are not our thoughts.

    1 Corinthians 2:11
    For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
  16. I think I understand Cho's interpretation. that God is Life. and around Him we have life, but when we get out of His presence (dismissing Him) then we are no longer part of eternal life but death and curse. That's what you were saying Cho?[/quote]

    That's what I'm saying Ramsey. I think the King James version is the best one out there but there are some weak points in it. Some of those weak points are in syntax.
    For example: a curse is a spoken wish for someone to have trouble, to put it very simply (only one of several definitions) God said to Adam; Because you did that you will ..... It could have been worded "Because you did that you stepped into all that trouble... with the same thing said

    I believe that the words were taken that God was cursing Adam and his decendents instead of what was really being said
  17. Jesus said satan has bound.the only time he mentions death ,then he says God did this i was wondering if this is significant with the world today being so diseased.
  18. Denadii Cho-

    No, those words God spoke in Genesis to Adam were not taken out of context. Other Scriptures declare- "by one man sin entered this world and death by sin." And as mentioned, because man became sinful, God then also had to taint the world as well. God clearly shows how good and evil cannot be lived together at the same time because of thier inerrant contradictions- (we cannot eat of the table of God and of Satan together, nor drink of the Cup of Christ and the cup of demons together either).

    God declares Satan is the author of confusion. Thus, he will twist God's Word to make it sound acceptable, so that he will try to intermix God's Teachings with worldly beliefs. In that way, we can supposedly attain the best of both worlds.

    The only problem is, is that we can't live and accept worldly beliefs and thinking, because they so oppose what God teaches. And God teaches us, His Word is to be taken- "precept upon precept, line upon line, repeating that for clairification to understand, we should take God's Word as literally spoken.

    We need to realize, it helps alot more to realize, we have to be careful about interpretations of original Hebrew. Why? Because, the Jews used an old ancient original Hebrew language that existed before the Egyptian captivity.

    During that captivitiy, that language was basically lost. During or shortly after the Exodus, the Jews rebuilt that Hebrew Language. But, its not identical to the old original Hebrew Language. For instance-

    At the falling of the "wall of Jerico", theres been centuries of arguments over how many people the wall fell on- 1, 10, 100, or 1,000. Thats because the old Hebrew word for that number means like 10, or 100. Where the newer word means like- 1,000.

    This arguement is stupid. Why? The story is not based solely on the number of people the wall fell on. It is based on the fact that according to God's Children following God's commands, what God declares will happen, does or did happen.

    At this time in man's existance, what we have for the earliest known documentations of either Old Test. Scriptures as well as New Test Documents considered as part of the "Canon of Scripture."

    Secondly- Because most of the Documentations had been found centuries before now, remember, A- There have been centuries of translating. Because of the outfit who is chosen to do the translating, they will apply thier words and meanings as such for that reason.

    B- Remember as well, the "Church Leadership over the centuries have changed thier views concerning some Scriptures that are considered outlandish. (Even tho Early Church Leaders of the first 3 centuries of the Church age teach different.)

    Pretty clear I'd say. Secondly- God had to curse the earth for man's sake. How could a sin tainted man exist in a still perfected world? If weeds didn't grow, if particular animals were not converted to meat eaters, this would be a pretty smelly world with all the dead carcasses laying around decaying not getting eaten.

    If question that, look back in Gen. 1 for the description God gave of the food sources for all living animals, birds, etc- vegetation. In this first "perfected" life, there was no death, so no need for carnivors. Until death came into the world, now some element was needed to balance out all the dead carcasses that would end up lying around decaying and smelling.

    Man himself was already cursed by eating of the forbidden fruit. Notice God had the "Tree of Life" in the Garden- (Fruit that would hold the spiritual enhancement of the phys. body).

    The "Tree of the konowledg of Good and Evil" would take that enhancement away. Why? Gen. 3:22- ": And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever; 23- "Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden."

    If God had left man in the Garden to have eaten of the "Tree of Life" again, man would've lived forever in that fallen state.

    World diseased as it is now-

    Yes, when God declares that weeds and thistles would grow, this also mean't diseases would eventaully appear after the tainting continued to grow. And you can read I think its in Deut and Levit. about God's "Prescriptions" for caring for diseased people.

    God speaks of burning clothes in some cases, keeping people seperated in outer parts of a settlement for quaranteen, having diseased people wash, and thier clothes too, in a river- (running water), to carry disease away from the settlement, covering containers that had food in them to seal them from disease, plus alot more.

    It only stands to reason, the more technologically advanced man gets, the more polutants and other by products we produce, that can cause more problems for our environment as well as phys. bodies increase.

    btw- The actual definition of "Curse" is- "a spoken phrase or incantation, repeated or used along with special ingredients applied, mixed, cooked or burnt, in a ritual to bring about evil results or consequences. Mostly related to witchcraft, ancient sorcery, demonology,

    Here is the Biblical extension to "Curse"- the opposite of a Blessing. A Blessing is a good positive event that happens to someone. A Curse is a negative, hurtful, tormenting event that happens to someone.

    You'll find, the secular definition refers to a "curse" relating to a "wish", because little of the secular world believes in spiritual or supernatural powers that can produce Blessing or cursing. Rather, It is normally related to being lucky or unlucky.

    As such, its easy to come up with misconcieved beliefs, when we rely first of all too much on secular teachings, but also from more modern sources.

    I've amazingly found even, that secular sources from back in Christ's time, were so much more convicted to share evidence witnessed, read, heard first hand, etc, compared to the distortions we easily find in modern translations, definitions, etc today.

    And there are Christian Biblical Documentations that easily back up those ancient secular documents, as well as vise versa.

    This is why I believe it was God who took me thru all those years of study and research of God's Word, to help me, as well as others, to know I greatest intent is to speak the old original Truths God taught since Early Church Days.

    God Bless!!
  19. very interesting
    1. Matthew 8:17
      This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases."
    2. Mark 1:34
      and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.
    3. Mark 3:10
      For he had healed many, so that those with diseases were pushing forward to touch him.
    4. Luke 6:18
      who had come to hear him and to be healed of their diseases. Those troubled by evil spirits were cured,

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