Disagreements In Christianity

I apologize ahead of time........my last comment just made me think of........."Ground control to Major Tom"....
.......................groan...................I'm sorry

I said I'm sorry........:)
 
Major said:
I for one do not believe there are any apostles today simply because of the Biblical requirements can not be met by anyone.

However, in most Christian denominations there is a form of accountability whether it be a forum of administrators or other pastors who ask questions to determine if a man is truly a saved man who is seeking a position of authority.

The problem comes when a man opens a up a building and calls it the "Way to God Church" and sets up his own church with no accountability to anyone. He then begins to preach and teach what HE believes truth is and it may be a far cry from what the Bible says truth is.
That leads to all kinds of doctrinal problems and wrong teaching and once learned, it becomes very hard to unlearn.
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Its true. I personally consider an apostolic successor to be someone God has called to spread the Gospel. That being said Anglican, Episcopal, and I believe even Lutherans and Methodists all lay claim to apostolic succession.
 
Godspell said:
Its true. I personally consider an apostolic successor to be someone God has called to spread the Gospel. That being said Anglican, Episcopal, and I believe even Lutherans and Methodists all lay claim to apostolic succession.
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I do not believe that Episopal, Lutherans and Methodists do. However the AofG does and so do the Mormons.

To be an Apostle one had to bear witness to the fact that Jesus had risen from the dead. In order to do this, they had to have seen him after he was resurrected. That is way I say that there really are no Apostles today. Now some claim that they are but when compared to the requirements listed in the Bible we see that it is impossible to be one today.

Luke 24:46-48..........
"And [Jesus] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day… And ye are witnesses of these things."

Acts 1:22.............
When looking for someone to replace Judas, the one chosen had to be a witness unto the resurrection.
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1:8...................
Jesus told the apostles:
:But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

And that is exactly what they did.

Acts 4:33.............
"And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all."

1 Cor. 9:1..........
Paul the apostle, in defending his apostleship, appealed to the fact that he had seen Jesus after he had risen from the dead.
Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

1 Cor. 15:7-9.......
After that, he [JESUS] was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me [PAUL] also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.


 
Major said:
I do not believe that Episopal, Lutherans and Methodists do. However the AofG does and so do the Mormons.

To be an Apostle one had to bear witness to the fact that Jesus had risen from the dead. In order to do this, they had to have seen him after he was resurrected. That is way I say that there really are no Apostles today. Now some claim that they are but when compared to the requirements listed in the Bible we see that it is impossible to be one today.

Luke 24:46-48..........
"And [Jesus] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day… And ye are witnesses of these things."

Acts 1:22.............
When looking for someone to replace Judas, the one chosen had to be a witness unto the resurrection.
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1:8...................
Jesus told the apostles:
:But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

And that is exactly what they did.

Acts 4:33.............
"And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all."

1 Cor. 9:1..........
Paul the apostle, in defending his apostleship, appealed to the fact that he had seen Jesus after he had risen from the dead.
Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

1 Cor. 15:7-9.......
After that, he [JESUS] was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me [PAUL] also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
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Witness, I do not believe, is used here as in "eyewitness" but rather one who bears testimony. As in the court of law, where witnesses attest to some fact, in this case the resurrection of Jesus, the conquest of death, the harrowing of hades, and the Gospel in general.

Apostolic succession is those who inherent and teach the faith of the apostles. Whether this necessarily must occur within the rite of ordination I think is contestable. The Patriarch of Alexandria, for instance, the original pope, use to be elected by his Church's presbyters.
 
Godspell said:
Witness, I do not believe, is used here as in "eyewitness" but rather one who bears testimony. As in the court of law, where witnesses attest to some fact, in this case the resurrection of Jesus, the conquest of death, the harrowing of hades, and the Gospel in general.

Apostolic succession is those who inherent and teach the faith of the apostles. Whether this necessarily must occur within the rite of ordination I think is contestable. The Patriarch of Alexandria, for instance, the original pope, use to be elected by his Church's presbyters.
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Well then, we will have to stand in disagreement on this.

1 Corth. 15:7-9 says............
"After that, he JESUS was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me [PAUL] also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

This LAST passage is devastating for anyone who believes that there are apostles today. In order to be an apostle one has to have seen Jesus after he rose from the dead. Paul says that Jesus was seen last of all by him. He is the last one to see Jesus after his resurrection. Since no one since Paul has seen Jesus, no one since Paul can be an apostle. Therefore, there can be no apostles today.

I see no way to explain those words from the Bible in any way other than what they actually say.
 
Major said:
Well then, we will have to stand in disagreement on this.

1 Corth. 15:7-9 says............
"After that, he JESUS was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me [PAUL] also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

This LAST passage is devastating for anyone who believes that there are apostles today. In order to be an apostle one has to have seen Jesus after he rose from the dead. Paul says that Jesus was seen last of all by him. He is the last one to see Jesus after his resurrection. Since no one since Paul has seen Jesus, no one since Paul can be an apostle. Therefore, there can be no apostles today.

I see no way to explain those words from the Bible in any way other than what they actually say.
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I do not believe that Luke ever saw the risen Christ (I could be wrong about this, but I've never heard that).

Also, they were considered Apostles even before the resurrection.
 
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