Another thread branched out into this territory earlier and I thought - wondered - if the topic can be handled tactfully and without rancor here in its own thread. At issue was the expressions "born again" and "saved". I expressed that I didn't adhere to either expression, which led a few people to ask how it was possible to be a Christian and NOT be born again. To clarify: There are a few ways to hear "born again". In the Bible we are told in John 3:3 that "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." I was raised Catholic and was taught that this referred to our baptism. I understand and respect that other branches of Christianity understand this expression to mean a public declaration. So in the first sense, yes, I am born again and would say I was with no compunctions at all. But I do not do so in the second sense as I have a different Biblical understanding on the matter. More to the point, though, and more relevant to the discussion from earlier, I would say there is a difference between being born again and calling oneself a "born again Christian". And I was making THAT distinction because while yes, I do see myself as born again, I do NOT consider myself a Born Again Christian because I'm identifying as a Christian from the Catholic end of things rather than the Evangelical end. Evangelicals in my experience call themselves Born Again Christians. The Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopalians I know, do not. That may be different in the experience of others. To come to the expression "saved" now: This is an area a little more cut and dried, in that I think I can confidently say that it's rarer to find Catholics who call themselves "saved" for the simple reason that Catholics are not "one saved always saved" Christians because the understanding is that salvation is something that happens after we have died, not before, and so we don't pronounce ourselves saved before God has judged us. So this is what I mean when I say that I don't consider myself a "saved" or "Born Again" Christian, although I am very much born again in my view, considering my baptism. Now these thoughts and beliefs are central to my Christian faith, and I certainly understand that they will be disagreed upon, challenged, and held up to scrutiny. But that is not the point of this thread, so much as to clarify that there are different understandings within Christianity which many people may not be aware of. I offer this respectfully.