Differences In The Penitential Rite

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by PeaceLikeaRiver, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. Is this rite used in churches besides the Roman Catholic and Lutheran?

    I know about the confeitor:

    I confess to almighty God,
    and to you, my brothers and sisters,
    that I have greatly sinned
    in my thoughts and in my words,
    in what I have done,
    and in what I have failed to do;
    through my fault
    through my fault
    through my most grievous fault
    Therefore, I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,
    all the angels and saints,
    and you, my brothers and sisters,
    to pray for me to the Lord our God.

    And being more familiar with the Lutheran service, they use this:

    Pastor: If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    People: But if we confess our sins, God who is faithful and just will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    Pastor: Let us then confess our sins to God our Father.
    People: Most merciful God, we confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean. We have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done and by what we have left undone. We have not loved You with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We justly deserve Your present and eternal punishment. For the sake of Your Son, Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us, and lead us, so that we may delight in Your will and walk in Your ways to the glory of your Holy Name. Amen.
    Pastor: In the mercy of almighty God, Jesus Christ was given to die for us, and for His sake God forgives us all our sins. To those who believe in Jesus Christ He gives the power to become the children of God and bestows on them the Holy Spirit. May the Lord, who has begun this good work in us, bring it to completion in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  2. Do they do public confessions?
  3. I have never heard of either prayer, although my "brand" of Messianism is liturgical, prayed in either Hebrew or one's common tongue.
  4. I've never heard of them either.

    What does "ever virgin" mean?
  5. The Lutherans have a service of corporate confession and absolution of some kind, I haven't seen it practiced too often. Not sure about the Catholics.
  6. Not sure. Good question, I will look it up.
  7. I would assume that it means she was forever a virgin, but that isn't true so it would have to mean something else.
  8. That is what it means.
  9. Didn't Jesus have siblings?
  10. Presbyterians have a similar responsive confession of sins as part of the service.
  11. He did, but in those days you could pretty much absorb anyone's children as your own. I'm dubious myself David, it's certainly nothing I've ever read in scripture but as you know I think there are other places to look.
  12. Virgin, in a spiritual sense, it can mean free from impurities…
    In carnal sense: it is what it meant…

    Suggest we just agree on the spiritual sense

    How or Why?
    For one:

    Many of us here believes we are saved by grace of God, sure I believe that as well.

    Now, there are verses that Faith can be measured in certain way, such as “mustard seed”…
    I believe as well the Grace has a measure as well….
    I think I just got a tiny drop of Grace with my belief that we are I am saved by Grace….

    The lady is FULL of GRACE……
  13. His "brothers" were intimate friends with him, but not in fact his actual half brothers. Similar to how you would call your very close friend a brother.
  14. Really? That's very interesting. I didn't know that.
  15. No, Jesus had no siblings.
    The term used when scripture speaks of "his brothers and sisters" refers to relatives of any kind and could equally
    refer to cousins, nieces, nephews, etc.

    St. Mary is forever a virgin, as in she and Joseph never "knew each other in the Biblical sense".
  16. Well, as much as I cyber-love y'all and love y'all in the L-rd as well, I have to disagree. Because of the dynamics of Jewish families, we don't know with absolution whether Y'shua had actual brothers and sisters as we recognize them today -- the offspring of the same mother and father. We also don't really know if Mary had more children, except, for some, if they believe by faith that she did not. His stepfather was an older man than she, and who knows by what circumstances they married. Had he had children before? Had he been widowed? Etc.

    However, Mary was a good Jewish woman, as indicated by the Scriptures, chosen for that very thing. A good Jewish woman would not turn down her husband, remaining a physical virgin. First, she would have to go totally against Scripture to do so. Could a Scripturally-declared good Jewish woman -- a called-out great Jewish woman -- do that? She would have to also reject centuries of Jewish teaching as well.
  17. Well, she WAS unique, WAS singled out, so for her to go against type in those circumstances you could possibly understand.
  18. One who is called out because of her integrity and proper training in Jewish society, then, would have to change and start going against what the Scriptures say and what she had been taught through tradition -- and that within a society in which Scripture and obedience to G-d was more important than anything else within a religious family. :)
  19. Am I correct in thinking that sexual relations between a husband and wife may be seen by some here as sinful? Or maybe less than ideal? It would appear to me to be so. Ideally, Scripturally, the ideal would be a husband and wife joyously enjoying one another.
  20. I think Jesus was her only son or else why would he have told John to take care of his mother before he died?

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