Devotional - Debunking The New Testament Prophetic Culture Of Deception

Discussion in 'Thoughts for Today' started by anthony wade, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. - 1Corinthians 14: 18-19 (NIV)


    But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!” - 1Corinthians 14: 24-25 (NIV)


    In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. - Hebrews 1: 1-2 (NIV)




    As the end times grow darker and closer we see the influence of evil continue to infiltrate the church to even deceive the elect of God. This is nothing that has not been foretold by the Bible and we should be aware and alert regarding it. I understand that the notion of a New Testament prophetic culture has many sitting under deception. I know that this is a sacred cow to many in their churchianity. I understand why. It feels right. It looks right. There are enough Scriptures that can be ripped out of context and cobbled together to make it seem right. Many will know a "prophet" or "apostle" personally and will take offense. That is a shame because at the end of the day what should matter to us is what the Word of God says. Whenever I have debates in this area, inevitably the other person ends up defending man while I try to hold the Bible up as the plumb line.



    I want to be clear. I am not saying that the gift of prophecy is not in operation. It clearly is according to Scripture. Most cessationists will readily admit that it is the abuses of the gifts of the Spirit that led them to believe they were only intended for the Apostolic Age. If that were the case, what do we make of this:



    Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. - 1Corinthians 14: 1 (NIV)



    I find it very difficult to believe that an omniscient God would allow this to be in the canon of Scripture if it were only meant for people who lived 200 years before the canon of Scripture was decided. No, the issue is not prophecy but how it is being misused in the church. Likewise, the office of Prophet is not closed either. I used to think differently but given all of the admonitions against false prophets in the New Testament, it would seem logical once again to assume there must be true prophets. I have to be careful to not fall into the trap cessationists are prey to. Where the abuse of something of God leads me to wish it simply is not in operation anymore. No, the issue is not the office of Prophet but those who claim they hold it. Invariably, they are false by nature. They do not point people to Jesus but to themselves. They perform for personal gain. At the heart of the leaven is one of the greatest poisons infecting the church today - divine revelation.



    If you peel back the onion that is modern prophet-wannabes you inevitably will come to some form of divine revelation. This is the notion that they are not to be questioned because they heard what they are saying from God Himself! The New Apostolic Reformation claims they specifically heard from God in 1999 and He instructed them to band together. The Kansas City Prophets go back into the 1980's when Mike Bickle claims God instructed him to build the International House of Prayer. Bill Johnson out at Bethel Church in California claims divine impartation and visitations, something he then teaches at his "school of the supernatural." Many of your false teachers also claim this nonsense. Joseph Prince claims God gave him his great revelation of grace. People like Benny Hinn, Cindy Jacobs, and Todd Bentley all claim divine revelation. Let's face it - it makes it a lot easier to deal with critics to simply point up and say He told me!



    Besides this divine revelation scheme, there is also the notion of a "paradigm shift" from the Old Testament to the New Testament regarding the prophetic. Realize beloved, this is the only way the schemers can operate. They have to believe that the rules for prophecy have changed now that we live under the new covenant. That is because in the Old Testament it only took one wrong prophecy to be exposed as being false. To hear the new guns tell it, you can be 35% wrong and still be a pretty good prophet! So despite the fact that God is the same yesterday, today and forever, they claim there was a paradigm shift in the prophetic ministry once we entered the new covenant. That in the Old Testament the Prophet was the mouthpiece of God but in the New, he/she is just there to build the church up in unity. That the Old Testament was a period of judgment and law and the New is all puppies and unicorns - hallelujah! This is to cover up of course the absurd nature of modern prophecies; which are nothing more than clairvoyancy and doctrines of demons. Benny Hinn once prophesied Fidel Castro would die somewhere in the 1990s and despite giving himself a ten year window - he was still wrong. In 1996 Cindy Jacobs prophesied that the Christian divorce rate would be cut in half within one year...oops. Just this year someone claiming to be an apostle-prophet said that God had confirmed in his Spirit that the Denver Broncos would win the Super Bowl. They went on to lose 43-8! That is a 50-50 shot and he still was wrong by 35 points! This is not prophecy beloved - it is fortune telling and witchcraft. It is not supported anywhere in Scripture - neither is the notion of a paradigm shift in the prophetic culture of the church. As with so many of the gifts may I proffer the notion that we simply are doing it wrong. Heading to our key verses, let us start with the difference between the two covenants and their relationship to prophecy:



    In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. - Hebrews 1: 1-2 (NIV)



    In the Old Testament, God spoke to His people through His prophets. There were no Bibles. There were no printing presses to run off copies of the Torah. Much was passed on through verbal history. Prophets did not guess future events like they were looking into a crystal ball. They declared what God was saying - period! When Nathan went to David he revealed his sin to him. When Elijah declared the upcoming drought it was in direct response to the evil ways of King Ahab. The ways of not obeying what God had said; like David with Bathsheba. They did not prophesy rainbows and kittens because they were there to say what sayeth the Lord! Now however the author of Hebrews writes, all things go through the Words of Jesus Christ, who held the Office of Prophet for us. Jesus left us His Word - the revealed will of God for our lives! I know Christians so hooked on the false prophetic. Chasing it day in and day out - always seeking a "fresh word." If you want a fresh Word - open your Bible! In Revelation God warns us to add nothing to the prophecy contained in the Word! What then is the role of prophet in the New Testament church? What is the role of prophecy? I think the answers are found in 1Corinthians 14 and the remaining two key verse sets. The first explains the purpose of a prophetic word:



    I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. - 1Corinthians 14: 18-19 (NIV)




    Did you catch that beloved? Intelligible words to instruct others. Instruct others. What in the Bible are we pointed to for instruction?



    All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2Timothy 3: 16-17 (NKJV)



    It is the same paradigm as in the Old Testament! The revealed Word of God instructs us now, where the Prophets of old used to. It is still seeking what sayeth the Lord! Instruction in righteousness so that we may be prepared, equipped, and ready. Many of those that prop up the false paradigm shift use the verses from earlier in this chapter that read:



    But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. - 1Corinthians 14: 3-4 (NIV)




    They use these verses to directly imply that because we now live under grace and not law, that prophets are to only bring warm fuzzy words from God to strengthen, encourage, and comfort the church. There is so much wrong with this interpretation one does not know where to even start but let's start with the simple fact that the law does not disappear because of grace. Jesus said He came to fulfill the law and not a dot of it will disappear. It is only the cheap grace merchants that try and sell us on the notion that we can safely forget God's law because of God's grace. Perhaps the more insulting notion however is that the words brought forth from the Prophets of old were somehow not strengthening, encouraging, or comforting. David may not have wanted to hear what the Prophet Nathan had to say but he sure needed to hear it! If we are seeking to be strengthened it should be in the Lord. If we are seeking to be encouraged it should be in the Lord. If we are to be comforted it should be in the Lord. Not in the empty prattle of someone trying to make us feel good. The Gospel message of repentance may not seem encouraging to those that are perishing but it is life everlasting to those who embrace it! In her 2014 inaugural "prophetic" message Cindy Jacobs promised that 2014 will be a year of double blessing, anointing, portion, and prosperity. She claimed this because God allegedly told her so because 14 equals two sevens and everyone knows seven is the number of completion for God! Besides the stupidity of the notion that everyone who hears her message will have a year of double blessing and prosperity how in the world is this edifying at all? Because it feeds the flesh? Because it makes us greedy? Because it turns God into our own cosmic ATM? Please. If you want to move in the prophetic you need to move in the Word of God. You need to be pointing out Scriptures that apply to our current life situations. That is what will strengthen the body of Christ. That is what will edify believers. All comfort and encouragement is found in the Word of God. Still not sure? Let's look at the last key set of verses:



    But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!” - 1Corinthians 14: 24-25 (NIV)



    What convicts us of sin beloved? The Holy Spirit by leading us into all truth. It is the Holy Spirit who takes what is spiritual and makes it known to us. Here is Jesus explaining it. Look for the prophetic culture He speaks of:



    “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. - John 16: 12-15 (NKJV)



    He will tell you things to come. From where? From the Word of God; not some dime store charlatan. He will glorify God! He will take what is of God, namely His Word, and declare it to you! What lays bare the secrets of our hearts? The Word of God which is sharper than a two edged sword! What will cause us to fall down and worship? A revelation of God provided through His Word!



    Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people. - 1Corinthians 14: 29-33 (NIV)




    What is being weighed carefully? Scripture! Does the Prophet speak what sayeth the Lord or not? Prophesy is not some deep dark mystical experience. These verses say we all can take turns prophesying so that everyone is instructed and encouraged! Not with numerological nonsense and false predictions meant to tickle our ears but with solid Biblical truths meant to edify us, encourage us, strengthen us, and comfort us. I do not need a new revelation when God has already given me His! I do not need a new word when God has already given me His! We have the Spirit of the greatest prophet who ever lived inside of us and we are chasing men and women who promote themselves instead of God? I can guarantee you this. A true prophet of God is too busy telling you what God said to care whether you call him or her a prophet. The Apostle Paul never introduced himself as "The Apostle Paul." How do I know this? Because the Bible tells me he always viewed himself as the least of the apostles because he once persecuted the church. I leave you with the concluding words of this chapter we have examined today regarding prophets and prophecies:



    Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored. - 1Corinthians 14: 36-38 (NIV)




    Many who parade themselves as prophets do claim the word originated with them. They claim that the predictions were theirs. Divinely inspired of course but glorifying themselves first and foremost. The Word of God did not originate with them at all beloved. We all have access to it now and the Spirit inside of us to guide us into all truth. In the last days God is still speaking to us through His Son and through His Gospel. Turn aside from the myths of men who claim a paradigm shift when the Bible never says there was one. There was no need for one. God did not change. His Word did not change. If anyone dares to ignore this - they themselves should be ignored.





    Reverend Anthony Wade - April 15, 2014
     
  2. I did a study many years ago on how to identify the work of the Holy Spirit. I found the word in 1 Corinthians 14:29 (translated weigh carefully" in the NIV) is the same word translated discern, judge, waver, differ, doubt, contend in other verses and translations. I take that to mean we're to be like the Bereans and test prophecies to see if they are true.
     
  3. Would you guys recommend a website or book for me to get a better idea of the religious vocabulary used, i.e. cessationist, etc.
     
  4. What is all this about Anthony?

    I read through it a few times, but seems to me it could be shortened a lot.

    We have 5 anointed ministry offices. Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, teacher.

    There were 12 original Apostles where Jesus said we believe on their Word (John 17) So, no new cannon going out today, but that does not remove the office of Apostle.

    Apostles are sent to start works in dark places. They often have to from time to time operate in the other offices while the work is getting started. (Sent ones) Others call them missionaries today. Not a novice for sure.

    There is an office of a Prophet given to a "SHEEP FOLD" They are given for the perfecting of the saints, so they are still needed. (Eph 4)

    Prophets today do not give umbrella type prophecies concerning someone elses sheep. Good reason why all these "World" reaching prophecy's are bogus. No prophet has any word that overrides a Pastor's people. The Pastor is the one anointed to lead people, not the prophet.

    Prophets are not in the business of fortune telling, and all believers can get a Word of Wisdom or Knowledge from God.

    OT prophets are not NT prophets. A prophet can miss God on something as any believer can today or add to what God said and mess it all up.

    As a Pastor, the Lord told me that this office from time to time would come on me as I teach. Not that I am a prophet, but to sense the change when the anointing came to operate that office. Most of it was to know and see spiritually what others were dealing with to help with the root of things.

    No prophet has any new information for someone that the Lord has not already dealt with them about. Prophets are good for helping affirm in someone what the Lord has already told them. If Someone has a "WORD" for me, then I best have heard it from the Lord before, or know about it once it's brought up.

    Operating in a high level of Words of Knowledge, Wisdom, Prophecy does not make someone a Prophet. It's a ministry office, and more than just gifts given to each of us to help us. I can not stress this enough....................... hearing God does not make anyone a Prophet.

    All prophecy must be judged. Any one claiming to be a prophet who gets upset by others doubting them is no prophet.
    Prophecy, normally does not come from prophets but those in the body of Christ as Paul said I would rather you all spoke prophecy.
     
  5. Brian, I apologize. A cessasionist is someone who believes the gifts of the spirit ceased at the end of the first apostolic age (when John dies).

    Fandingman - yes. we are to test everything and hold onto what is good.
     
  6. What is all this about Anthony?

    This is about the abuses by Apostle Bob and Prophetess Suzie.


    I read through it a few times, but seems to me it could be shortened a lot.


    I disagree. I could write a book about this.


    We have 5 anointed ministry offices. Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, teacher. There were 12 original Apostles where Jesus said we believe on their Word (John 17) So, no new cannon going out today, but that does not remove the office of Apostle. apostles are sent to start works in dark places. They often have to from time to time operate in the other offices while the work is getting started. (Sent ones) Others call them missionaries today. Not a novice for sure.

    We have had this conversation before. If you contention is that missionaries are the modern apostles, I would disagree but not vociferously.

    There is an office of a Prophet given to a "SHEEP FOLD" They are given for the perfecting of the saints, so they are still needed. (Eph 4)Prophets today do not give umbrella type prophecies concerning someone elses sheep. Good reason why all these "World" reaching prophecy's are bogus. No prophet has any word that overrides a Pastor's people. The Pastor is the one anointed to lead people, not the prophet. Prophets are not in the business of fortune telling, and all believers can get a Word of Wisdom or Knowledge from God. OT prophets are not NT prophets. A prophet can miss God on something as any believer can today or add to what God said and mess it all up.

    We can respectfully disagree. There are zero scriptures supporting a "Paradigm shift" from OT to NT. That is all made up by the prophecy business folks. If a "prophet" "misses something" I am sure that means they are not a prophet at all. By the way, I am not against the idea of the office of prophet being open today. I am against Bob and Suzie claiming the office, printing business cards with their unearned office, charging people to hear their wonderful prophecies, etc... I firmly believe that a true prophet would never call themselves such.

    As a Pastor, the Lord told me that this office from time to time would come on me as I teach. Not that I am a prophet, but to sense the change when the anointing came to operate that office. Most of it was to know and see spiritually what others were dealing with to help with the root of things.

    The gift will come on you, not the office. That same gift can come on any of us, as the Spirit sees fit.


    No prophet has any new information for someone that the Lord has not already dealt with them about. Prophets are good for helping affirm in someone what the Lord has already told them. If Someone has a "WORD" for me, then I best have heard it from the Lord before, or know about it once it's brought up.


    I think that would be a word of knowledge no? It seems to me that a prophetic word is to point people back to scripture to prophesy something God has already pointed out for us in His word.


    Operating in a high level of Words of Knowledge, Wisdom, Prophecy does not make someone a Prophet. It's a ministry office, and more than just gifts given to each of us to help us. I can not stress this enough....................... hearing God does not make anyone a Prophet.

    Agreed, although I wonder what you believe would make someone a prophet?


    All prophecy must be judged. Any one claiming to be a prophet who gets upset by others doubting them is no prophet. Prophecy, normally does not come from prophets but those in the body of Christ as Paul said I would rather you all spoke prophecy.

    Agreed
     
  7. This is about the abuses by Apostle Bob and Prophetess Suzie.
    Sounds good.

    I disagree. I could write a book about this. (Could be shorter?)
    I suppose a short version for forums would be to much work, Make sense as I don't like to say something twice.

    We have had this conversation before. If you contention is that missionaries are the modern apostles, I would disagree but not vociferously.
    Well, we don't remove a ministry office. Each office has a function and the Apostolic office has always been the God given ability to go out and start works without getting yourself killed in the process.

    We can respectfully disagree. There are zero scriptures supporting a "Paradigm shift" from OT to NT. That is all made up by the prophecy business folks. If a "prophet" "misses something" I am sure that means they are not a prophet at all. By the way, I am not against the idea of the office of prophet being open today. I am against Bob and Suzie claiming the office, printing business cards with their unearned office, charging people to hear their wonderful prophecies, etc... I firmly believe that a true prophet would never call themselves such.

    The OT prophets gave Word for nations. Now consider this. You have on your mind to get something at Wallmart, it's been on your mind for awhile and right when your thinking about it the Lord says, "Go to Walmart" Now the human mind will connect what God said and fill in the space. You believe God is giving you the OK to buy that thing you waited on getting.

    Come to find out, someone there needs help from the Lord, and the reason you were sent. You run into them, then buy your thing thinking God said to buy your thing you wanted. Why else would God say go to walmart.

    Come to find out a month later someone is selling a much better thing like yours with features you really wanted, at a better price but you had already spent your money. Had you just gone to walmart, helped the person and went home, you would still have the money and still waiting on the go ahead to buy your thing.

    Every person that hears God, (Like a prophet might) has a head (Flesh Brain) and the human side that wants a full picture and will reason out what God did not say. I have done it, and find it hard to believe that every "Prophet" does not have to contend with flesh when it comes to hearing God on things.

    This is why when I hear God about someone, I wait and seek more. It has to be right and I can't have any added knowledge that I know naturally to it.

    One reason when my wife talks to someone to help, we have a rule to not say a thing to each other about it so that we can hear God on the exact same thing without the natural knowledge interference.

    The gift will come on you, not the office. That same gift can come on any of us, as the Spirit sees fit.


    Well, that is like saying the gift comes on someone to be a Pastor, or teacher. Not saying it can't happen, but a Prophet operates in the office when it's time to speak. Just like the teaching anointing we trust in to be there when it's our time to speak.

    I think that would be a word of knowledge no? It seems to me that a prophetic word is to point people back to scripture to prophesy something God has already pointed out for us in His word.

    Well, everything would be in line with scripture. An example of a time when the office I felt came on my teaching (You can tell the difference in anointings) I saw a vision of a bed room, several dark devil like guys and I was feeling the fear (Not that I had fear, I just felt it. Hard to explain) of a women searching under the bed, in the shower and all over her house everytime she came home. I knew what she was going through, the fear and the devils behind the mess. I called her up after service and explained what her bedroom looked like, her issue and the Lord even told me what to pray over her to set her free.
    The prophet office is a supernatural office, and certain gifts should be in operation.

    I just got a word of Knowledge the other day for someone concerning her husband. In fact the Lord quoted exactly what her counsler said about him, same wording and everything that it bare witness with her. She knows I hear God though, but this is not a prophet office, this is just gifts operating to help folks.

    If your called by the Lord to be a prophet, then you would have faith that the anointing will be there when it's time to help the people, just like the faith is there when it's time to Pastor or teach people.

    Agreed, although I wonder what you believe would make someone a prophet?


    I have only seen one person operate in that office consistently. Sister Betty, a 74 year old women that helped men in Prison. She would call men up and speak over them things that had been, was, and could come if they obey and be doers of the Word.
    I separate those that do hear God, from the actual office. The office should be there when it's time to minister, the rest is the Holy Spirit helping us out.



    Be blessed.
     
  8. I suppose a short version for forums would be to much work, Make sense as I don't like to say something twice.




    I dealt with the length of my writing with God long ago. I know that many only have a few minutes for God but that doesn't make it right. We should be open to spending 10 minutes to read about God.


    Well, we don't remove a ministry office. Each office has a function and the Apostolic office has always been the God given ability to go out and start works without getting yourself killed in the process.




    Ephesians 2 calls the apostolic office foundational.


    Well, that is like saying the gift comes on someone to be a Pastor, or teacher. Not saying it can't happen, but a Prophet operates in the office when it's time to speak. Just like the teaching anointing we trust in to be there when it's our time to speak.




    Yeah, there are no Scriptures outlining this.



    Well, everything would be in line with scripture. An example of a time when the office I felt came on my teaching (You can tell the difference in anointings) I saw a vision of a bed room, several dark devil like guys and I was feeling the fear (Not that I had fear, I just felt it. Hard to explain) of a women searching under the bed, in the shower and all over her house everytime she came home. I knew what she was going through, the fear and the devils behind the mess. I called her up after service and explained what her bedroom looked like, her issue and the Lord even told me what to pray over her to set her free. The prophet office is a supernatural office, and certain gifts should be in operation.




    I don't want to argue about things that are close. I would view this as a word of knowledge.



    I have only seen one person operate in that office consistently. Sister Betty, a 74 year old women that helped men in Prison. She would call men up and speak over them things that had been, was, and could come if they obey and be doers of the Word.



    Am I right in assuming Betty never called herself a prophetess?
     


  9. Hence, Apostles start founding works. There appears to be more called Apostles in the Word that did not give scripture such as Barnabus who was an apostle. He started works, pastor's come in for the sheep, and so on.

    Well, that is like saying the gift comes on someone to be a Pastor, or teacher. Not saying it can't happen, but a Prophet operates in the office when it's time to speak. Just like the teaching anointing we trust in to be there when it's our time to speak.

    Yeah, there are no Scriptures outlining this.

    He gave some........... Gave some Apostles, Prophets, Teachers. In the OT such as Jeremiah he was called from the Womb as a prophet. It's a position, not just someone who has a prophecy or Word from the Lord. Just like Pastors.

    1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

    Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

    It takes far more faith to give prophecy "God speaking to us in our language" then someone speaking in tongues. It takes a level of faith to speak word for Word as the Lord speaks and these gifts are open to all. A man to think to be a prophet is someone that thinks they have that office position, and someone God uses consistently in that area.

    I believe there is enough scripture to say this is an office and not just something people operate in.

    I don't want to argue about things that are close. I would view this as a word of knowledge.


    Good enough.............

    -----------------------

    I have only seen one person operate in that office consistently. Sister Betty, a 74 year old women that helped men in Prison. She would call men up and speak over them things that had been, was, and could come if they obey and be doers of the Word.


    Am I right in assuming Betty never called herself a prophetess?

    I never heard her say she was a Prophet. The office was there though every time she spoke to the men. Others just taught, and things. The prisoners called her Prophet Betty. She jumped around a lot for being 74. I am not convinced she even knew there was an office like that, but it was real evident.

    My Pastor has Words from God at times, and his wife calls people up. She operates in that office. My pastor calls himself pastor though as it's not often he has a word.

    One intense moment is when she called up someone (Not pointing or giving a name) of someone molesting their daughter. She said she knows who it is and described the bed room of the daughter. She said there is mercy, but you have to come up, repent. He did not, but the guys wife knew the bedroom and he ended up in jail as she turned him in and they questioned the daughter. The wife suspected anyway, but self denial is a tough cookie to eat.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Back to your original piece. There are lots of voices in the World, most have no distinction or even from God.

    Blessings.
     
  10. Have you tried this one?
     
  11. Our conversation has gone on so long I forget what I was speaking too, lol. I am not saying the office is closed. You had stated alot of the new paradigm language however. THAT is what I am saying is not scripturally supported.

    As for Betty, that is kinda my point. A true servant of God in these offices are too busy doing the Lord's work to care who calls them what. It is not about self promotion. It is about God promotion.
     
  12. Well, Betty was a nice awesome old lady, full of fire and lots of energy for a 74 year old women. She helped I don't know how many by getting them to see things they knew but could not piece together.

    Good enough Anthony............................... I just wish others would join in and ask questions, it just seems like you and me most the time. Why is that?

    However................................... Your right, we should be very Leary of these self called prophets. I am very suspect of any prophet giving World ranging prophecies as the Lord would not override the Pastor office and the anointing to lead his own people for that church body. If every pastor followed every given world prophecy, then no Pastor would do the will of God for their own church but be super busy making accommodation for all the many prophecies that have been given.

    Blessings.
     
  13. I don't know why the participation is low. What is interesting is that as much as people complain about a hard word it seems they are the only ones that generate interest. This thread has 100 views but the Holy Thursday word only has 14?

    Blessings.
     
  14. I am thinking that not a lot have a grasp on this Anti WOF stuff or understand the difference between Pentecostals and WOF. In fact I suspect most don't even pray in tongues which is a Pentecostal thing.
    When you talk about prophets, I doubt many here at least even seen one operate or understand what that is exactly. In fact, just hearing God is strange to some here.

    Hopefully they will at least read and get some understanding of things.

    A lot of WOF concepts you bring up, I also don't see. It could be my fish bowl I live in. I don't watch anyone but Kenneth, and my pastor. I don't know most the folks you bring up either. Just the older guys..... Copeland, Hagin, Duplantis, Dollar, ......

    anyway, at least I hope others see another church World out there besides some dead Methodist Church voting in Homosexuality and singing the Old slow hyymm songs.

    I don't like to put down denominations and won't for goofy things like prosperity, (Which is in the Word) or crazy prophecy. When it comes to voting for sin to come in. I have issues with that type of thing.

    blessings.
     
  15. My issue is not putting people down. It is in pointing out biblical error because people who sit under error are far more likely to think they are saved when they are not. My concern is for the purity of Scripture and the eternal destination of men.
     
  16. OK, well................. What is error?

    If I knew everything God does not like or needs to change in me, then I have arrived. I have not arrived yet.

    Like this prophet thing. We have a whole bunch of folks that think they are World wide prophets, and most of it is junk. The problem is that you don't have to be brilliant, logical, knowledgeable to get air time or write a book.

    hanging out with Pentecostals you hear lots of folks saying "thus saith the Lord". A lot of times the Lord said none of it. I sort of got use to that.

    I have my soap boxes also.

    You don't check much the other threads, but anyone saying God is to blame, God put me through this, God allowed, then I get on my soap box and break it down also.

    I guess I am not real concerned about what other folks are doing.

    You point to those who have TV time, but what about the Bizzilion churches who are also in error? it seems like you only know who to pick on because you visibly see them or in the media and miss a billion others who are pretty close to practicing witch craft at their church. I still don't get it, error is error even if it's on TV or in some remote back wooded church.

    Be blessed.
     
  17. Error is anything in disagreement with the Bible.

    The people faking a word from the Lord, either pretending to be a prophet or not, will have a lot to answer for. Just another reason why the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

    As for the bizzilion churches in error, I always write about them. I use local examples of things I have personally witnessed. When I write about seeker friendly or purpose driven churches, it is addressing the majority of churches today, not just Saddleback. It is true that a lot of what is visible is visible because it is on TV. The churches in the backwoods might be leading 50 people astray but the Osteens are leading 5 million astray. Are the other 50 important? Absolutely, which is why I write about general church principles they can relate to.

    Happy Resurrection Sunday!
     
  18. Maybe most people on here would rather read what you have to say and leave it at that. It almost sounds like you two are saying if someone doesn't post on your discussions then they aren't as holy as you or they aren't spending time with God because they don't post? This thread could have been taken to private discussion after the 4th or so post. Maybe God didn't put it on anyone's heart to participate. You two should really get over yourselves. God Bless.
     
  19. You two should get over yourselves...God bless??? Really?

    Look, he asked a question and I answered it. I did not speculate anything other than I noticed that the more controversial topics generated more page views, which I still find interesting. Having absolutely nothing to do with me.
     
  20. I don't know if they are "Faking" Like Balaam, you can hear whatever you think you want to hear. I guess it did not end well for Balaam though...... ummmm. Well, I was trying to make some point.

    I try to look at the spirit in which something is given. Jesus did say, we have what we say and "believe" you can't believe something if you had not heard though. I don't like how Joel presents it, but there is truth to it.

    I can't confess a Lamborghini into being if I had not heard. I would have to hear God telling me He is going to give me one. I can ask God for one, for he gives good gifts to his Children, but to speak comes from what we believe, and to believe we have to have faith, and to have real faith we need to read it in the Word or hear from God.

    Like the (Little gods) doctrine............ Most hate the term Little gods if your not WOF. Once again though we are like God in his image and are his offspring. The whole kingdom is ours being heirs with Christ Jesus. We are in God's class, of being and above the angels judging them and ruling in the end with Jesus as Kings and Priest. Jesus called people theos.....gods.......

    So I wonder if some of what is presented has truth, but it could be missing parts and we might not like how it's presented?

    I mean part of the promise and prosperity is to obey....... obey.........obey.... Those that obey and serve him shall lives their years in pleasure................ (Job- Elihu said)

    God does multiply seed sown....... there would be no limit to that according to scriptures.

    I look at the spirit of things, and ask if they just lack the rest and just giving some parts?

    It is true, I am all that when it comes to scripture. Thank you for the recognition :) bout time someone around here saw it.

    also the discussion continues between us because Anthony is ANTI Word of Faith. I am Word of Faith. We compare notes............

    blessings to all.
     

Share This Page