Yes but its not through the will of man..and all obedience is a fruit or product of the Holy Spirit...not the will of man!
Destiny Or Free Will?
- Thread starter Big Moose
- Start date
Well now your trying to put words into my mouth...? Yes the beginning of wisdom is a fear of God, but perfection is a product of His love. But it still according to His Will and not our will.
Agreed wholeheartedly.
Didn't Jesus already suffer for us???
I agree with you Gene and here are some Scriptures that will help.
Some in the radical predestination camp claim that Jesus died only for the elect. However, the Bible teaches quite clearly that Jesus died for the sins of all people and wants all people to come to repentance. This does not mean that Jesus' death provides salvation for those who resist God's call.
John 3"16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 12:32
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
Rom. 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
1 Corth. 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.
2 Corth. 5:15
For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
1 Tim. 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
That's Free-will...disobedience... To surrender the will is obedience to Gods Will. "Free-will" is a really sad term to use to describe the true faith. I believe it is a term that promotes the boasting of the flesh.."I have free-will..i did this and I did that" its all a product of the religion of the flesh. There is no room for boasting in the true gospel, because all the glory of man (including his will)must be crucified with Christ.
Correct. Making a choice by our liberty, rooted in love results in freedom to make the choice.
We were called into liberty, not slavery. Liberty is not an excuse or a license to sin. A License destroys liberty.
Gal. 5:13......"Only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh".
Liberty must be maintained, not abused.
I understand this term (free-will) was and is used to defeat certain aspects of Calvinist doctrine...ok.. But the term itself is not a biblical term that represents true obedience. Trying to defeat an error by building another error, is not how we defend the truth.
By the way, good morning Bro. Major
By the way, good morning Bro. Major
I see Arminian thought as an attempt to justify the flesh by works...plan and simple. I see Calvinist doctrine as an attempt to justify the flesh through lifeless doctrine, that in large part denies the work of the Holy Spirit as that which effectual source of salvation.
I reject that this discussion should be framed according to these two false belief systems. I know there is some truth in each view, satan does not a build a false system apart from some truth. He uses truth to cover every lie, and the lie he desires above all is that man might worship God according to the flesh.
I reject that this discussion should be framed according to these two false belief systems. I know there is some truth in each view, satan does not a build a false system apart from some truth. He uses truth to cover every lie, and the lie he desires above all is that man might worship God according to the flesh.
There are people we could describe as "unbelieving believers." They are sound in doctrine but have no trust. They preach what they call the gospel, but it is lifeless, just a statement of their accepted view.
The gospel must in itself be a believing act, fully reliant on God.... The truth of Christ is the seed we must sow. But without faith it is seed that has never been fertilized. The gospel won't germinate, spring up, blossom or produce fruit unless it is preached with faith. To hold fast to the faith once delivered to the saints (see Jude 3) is very important, but it is not sufficient. Faith is fruitful, life generating - "by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:31). It is a vibrant, living process. - R. B. (with my edit)
The gospel must in itself be a believing act, fully reliant on God.... The truth of Christ is the seed we must sow. But without faith it is seed that has never been fertilized. The gospel won't germinate, spring up, blossom or produce fruit unless it is preached with faith. To hold fast to the faith once delivered to the saints (see Jude 3) is very important, but it is not sufficient. Faith is fruitful, life generating - "by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:31). It is a vibrant, living process. - R. B. (with my edit)
John 17:16 Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. 17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
Proverbs 16:9 In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps.
Joshua 24:15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
There are many more in Paul's letters and 1 and 2 Peter and 1 John and Revelation which speak about the Christian's choices, whether good ones or bad.
What exactly do you do when God gives you more than one option? If you say God is giving you the choice, then there is your "free will". Otherwise you must follow through on all options, and that would often cause you to work against yourself, getting you nowhere. Often we ask for guidance from God, and receive no definite response. To me, that is God saying, "This is your choice, an opportunity to grow and learn I will be with you in all things."
Philippians 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your boasting in Christ Jesus will abound on account of me.
Very much choosing, indeed. God bless!
Proverbs 16:9 In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps.
Joshua 24:15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
There are many more in Paul's letters and 1 and 2 Peter and 1 John and Revelation which speak about the Christian's choices, whether good ones or bad.
What exactly do you do when God gives you more than one option? If you say God is giving you the choice, then there is your "free will". Otherwise you must follow through on all options, and that would often cause you to work against yourself, getting you nowhere. Often we ask for guidance from God, and receive no definite response. To me, that is God saying, "This is your choice, an opportunity to grow and learn I will be with you in all things."
Philippians 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your boasting in Christ Jesus will abound on account of me.
Very much choosing, indeed. God bless!
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
A choice to surrender to Gods will or walk in ones own will..is not free will...? Obedience is in Gods will, not our will.
17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
A choice to surrender to Gods will or walk in ones own will..is not free will...? Obedience is in Gods will, not our will.
I would love to agree with you, Mitspa but I surrender my will to God daily and still I make wrong choices. I would love to be that robot that everyone talks about but unlike the plants and animals, whom I envy, I still am not perfect. Call it what you will, non free will or choices, we still have them to make even under the best intentions and strive as we might to understand scripture.
And when that child throws that toy at the TV set? We choose to obey or not obey. Your own scripture shows this:
John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
If he will then this consequence. If not then another.
Well said.
No, obedience comes when the will of man surrenders to the Will of God. Free-will describes disobedience....it really seems some of you are failing to spend the needed time at the Cross of Christ? Yes its "HIS WILL" not our will!