Destiny Or Free Will?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Big Moose, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Good post CCW95A... You seem to have a understanding that God is not limited by temporal time. He knows the end from the beginning ... Temporal time is a prison (in a sense) a limited space of the god of this "age". God dwells in the ETERNAL realm! He looks upon this temporal time as that which only serves His Own purpose.
  2. Hi Mitspa, I find it really hard to try and get other Christians to see things from God's point of view, instead of looking at the things that are seen with our physical eyes. Being born again and being sitting on the right hand of God in the heavenly places in Christ gives us a unique position to see things from two different perspectives. We can either choose to see with our physical eyes prophecy being fulfilled right before us or we can choose to see things from the eternal point of view. Scripture tells us to not look at the things seen, but at the things not seen. The things seen are only temporary and subject to change by faith, but the things not seen, which can be seen by faith are eternal.... :)
  3. So you know what it means to "walk in the Spirit"...glad you made it to the forum...:)
  4. Well, I know "walking" in the Spirit has nothing to do with my two feet. Walking referring to "transporting yourself from one place to another." To be able to come boldly to the throne room of grace, which is not of this world, my two feet can not get me there.
    Good to be here...fellowshipping with the Saints in light is a blast!!!
    Mitspa likes this.
  5. Amen..the Spirit is the eternal realm..was kinda my point...but I hope we get to talk and encourage each other in these things...blessings and peace ...glad to have you here!
  6. It is a blessing knowing there are others who are like minded in the things of the Spirit, and God's Kingdom.
  7. I am missing? How many scriptures I give you to show you what God knows and how he know.

    You don't even have a scripture stating what your saying. Your just running on about nothing.

    However, why did God say to Abraham., now I know . When you claim God should have already known?

    Why God have to go down to check sodom and said then he woke know. Just a few out of many.

    Answer the questions. If you have a learning disability I understand.

    Also your scripture that God knows all are choices.

    Its disrespect to take the time to show someone something and get such a stupid response ignoring all the scripture I gave.

    You really want to sow that seed?
    Just run on about nothing and not take the time I do for everyone to.answer.back all their scriptures?
  8. Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    Psa 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
    Psa 139:3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
    Psa 139:4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.

    God already knew what Abraham would do in offering up his son as a sacrifice. Abraham's faith was strong enough for the test because he simply believed God Word to him. Abraham was tested not to see what he would do, but to cause him to do it, so God himself in return would offer up his only begotten son for the sins of mankind.
    SergioL likes this.
  9. I don't disagree with any of it. God knows our ways and man is treated accordingly.

    God declares the end....his counsel will stand. This is not God just knowing something. The knowing comes from the speaking, as God said it, it happens.

    God said for I know Abraham. Not because of some pre world knowledge, but Abraham was faithful.

    God operates by faith and love. Love don't believe any man to fail, but to find that pre destined plan he has for every man.

    God does not not know what you will be doing years from now, but by you being faithful.

    What you show God now, today, is important. Jesus said you must be faithful in the little and every none faith idle word spoken we will give an account.

    On a phone. Hard to type.
  10. Re 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    Folks God is eternal! He is NOT limited to or by our understanding of time!

    1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
    Euphemia and CCW95A say Amen and like this.
  11. God is ETERNAL life, he has never been subject nor can He be subject to temporal time that He Himself created when He made all things through the Lord Jesus Christ.

    1Jo 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.

    To be "Spiritual" is to be aware that we are eternal beings alive in the eternal life of God. That's why Paul says they that are carnal set their minds on temporal things, but the "Spiritual" set there minds on ETERNAL things.
  12. You are extremely confused if you think God changes his "mind". God is omniscient, and to say that he changed his mind is to be questioning his perfection consequently denying him as God. Do you think God doesn't know what will happen next? God never changed his mind in any of these instances, he already knew what was going to happen! Now about God's path and plan. SERIOUSLY?? Do you think God sacrificed his one and only son just to turn his head when someone wasn't on his path?! He desperately wants everyone to be saved and does everything he can in order to give you the chance to realize your sins and repent! You need to look into your scripture a little more closely, I notice that you love to pull out verses from different areas of the Bible in order to twist an argument to the answer you want.
  13. I am confused?

    I just gave you how many scriptures?

    You see all the scriptures people are posting for me? You see any attempts people are using scriptures to refute the many I have given?

    You know why they don't post all the scriptures like I do........ Because there are none.

    I have been coming against your Doctrine of Arminianism and Calvinism for a lot of years and have debated with the best.

    Now, you have quoted me as believing something I have never said........................ We get into the areas of misquoting people and lying, it's a whole other matter besides not agreeing on something.

    Point where I said that God turns his back on someone who is on his path?

    Give the the scripture that says God can't change his mind........... I gave you several where He did. (You can quote Balaam if you like, go ahead)

    No, the problem is you have not studied the Word or value the Word as I do, and so you just rant with no scripture, you lie, claiming I said and believe things I don't, and you have no answer for the scriptures I gave because you don't care or vaule the Word.

    Unlike you, when I see something in scripture that does not line up with what I thought I believed, I seek and get in line with scripture.

    Also in your mind, you equate perfection with someone that can't be reasoned with, or change their mind. That is stupid.

    Isa 43:26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

    Every place I gave you where God changed his mind, it was because man did or did not do as they were suppose to.

    So instead of just running on like some 2 year old, man up and start giving scriptures and start explain the many I gave.
  14. The author Attributes God's foreknowledge as not really being foreknowledge in a sense that God just knows, but explained it in a causative Case, because God spoke, and it happens, therefore God knows.

    People who do not know the Lord, don't understand who his nature is. By God's own nature of who he is, God can not operate like carnal man. God is Love. It's not that God has Love but is Love.

    It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong]. It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail. Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].
    (1Co 13:5-7) AMP

    Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

    Those that believe God was thinking, Knowing, planning, whatever for Adam to blow it. Also believe God is a liar and violates his own Word when God described exactly what He thinks and Knows. They don't know God, and are confused.

    God's Word is perfect, and has ZERO contradiction.
    Some don't value God's Word enough to understand that.

  15. I would like to thank all who contributed to the discussion. I learned a lot, and the study helped me seek out more scripture and find more scripture which helped answer any questions and doubts that I had. Previously, I had not studied much of Jeremiah, but I have found and been shown significant passages there.
    Jeremiah 17:
    24 “And it shall be, if you heed Me carefully,” says the Lord, “to bring no burden through the gates of this city on the Sabbath day, but hallow the Sabbath day, to do no work in it, 25 then shall enter the gates of this city kings and princes sitting on the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they and their princes, accompanied by the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and this city shall remain forever. 26 And they shall come from the cities of Judah and from the places around Jerusalem, from the land of Benjamin and from the lowland, from the mountains and from the South, bringing burnt offerings and sacrifices, grain offerings and incense, bringing sacrifices of praise to the house of the Lord.
    27 “But if you will not heed Me to hallow the Sabbath day, such as not carrying a burden when entering the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day, then I will kindle a fire in its gates, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.”’”

    Jeremiah 18:
    5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the Lord. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.

    Jeremiah 19:4 “Because they have forsaken Me and made this an alien place, because they have burned incense in it to other gods whom neither they, their fathers, nor the kings of Judah have known, and have filled this place with the blood of the innocents 5 (they have also built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or speak, nor did it come into My mind),
    God speaks for himself in all this that He will act according to man's actions and choices. Even to the extent that the evil which those who sacrificed to Baal, did not come into His mind.
    This by no means diminishes God, for He is omnipotent and omniscient. This shows He has chosen to deal with mankind in this way, so the responsibility for our actions is ours alone.
    Again a great website on this issue is :
  16. Yep. It is free will and destiny at the same time, it is not one or the other.
  17. God not knowing what each of us will be doing 10 years from now does not diminish the fact that with a Word He could make every knee on the planet hit the dirt.

    There is a way he can know, but I have not gotten into that yet.

    In 2000 I was believing for my wife to get out of adultery. I figured faith can change anything, but the Lord told me, we can take all the pressure off her from the enemy, give light and she might be saved.

    Might be? I did not want to mention to the Lord that it was not faith to speak that way. So I just kept quite. I just did not understand, God knows everything, I mean everything in my mind.

    It was about 2003 and I was just praying, asking the Lord about someone doing something, and I just said, Lord You know if they will do this or not. The Lord then spoke to me and said, "How would I know if they will do that for you, I am not limited by what they do or know what they will do."

    1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

    If the Holy Spirit knew, He would tell us.

    It was at this point I tried to piece it together. I was not willing to entertain that God just did not know. I switched it to God chooses not to know, which is not scripture.

    10 years Moose, and you grasp who God is in far less time. Don't seem fair, but praise God.

    There is another very sobering side to this though. God knows us through our actions and personally. The thought is you can sin, repent, then sin and get forgiven and everything is peachy.

    It's not................ God only knows you by your breaking point. He can't hand someone better things that can't handle the simple things like not look at that pornography.

    This is why Jesus said Don't swear on anything.......Don't promise God anything. Just take his help and get stronger.

    God wants to know us personally, through a relationship. Not some magical foreknowledge. Many don't know God because they are taught that everything that happens, God is in control. His will if you get sick, he knew all that was going to happen, and what is the point to believe anything if God already knows, or caused?

    How we respond and act daily means everything. Many wonder why they stay sick, broke and defeated. It never occurs to them they have not been faithful to get more. If God can't get you to do dishes like you should everyday, then you can't handle few hundred dollars extra either.

    Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
    (1Co 9:24)

    There is a set path God has already planed. Nothing changes that path, we choose to stay on it or not. Everything is planed out, just like the race path. How fast we get to everything depends on us. Off God's path, and your out into areas God never planed.

    For someone that can stop the sun in it's tracks, God don't need to know our life 5 years down the road. We stay on his path he has it all waiting as we run the race. We get off, he can change things in a instant to help us get back on. We have more than enough scripture from the Lord describing exactly who He is, How he deals with man, and what he knows, and what even enters his mind.

    Be blessed.
  18. Free-will describes disobedience, not obedience!..Surrendered will describes biblical and Spiritual obedience.
  19. Excellent!

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