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Defining Our Terms

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Relentless, Feb 11, 2015.

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  1. I have written a page in one of my blogs which gathers in one place many of the basic terms we use in discussions. I hope to keep adding to it, but so far I think it would be a great help to many.

    The link is http://sof.fether.net/knowledge-base/ and it includes topics such as hermeneutics, logic, and contextual basics that will affect our understanding of the scriptures. It certainly isn't exhaustive, and I'm more of the type to get right to the point rather than use more words than necessary. But it is my hope that it serves as a good starting point.
  2. I have heard most of these terms only over last few years.. Well, only over last few years I have really put more effort in studying Word of God :)
    Fish_of_Faith and Relentless say Amen and like this.
  3. Me too brother.
  4. I can't stand Hermannutcakes. There is a reason scripture says the Holy Spirit teaches us all things.

    I have a law of reasonable. Is what a person saying reasonable in light of scriptures?

    I don't have to agree with them, but I can say what they see in the Word is reasonable.

    If they ignore scriptures to draw conclusions, then what they believe is not reasonable.

    If they can't reasonably explain scriptures that are against their position then they ignore scriptures to hold bad doctrine.



    Traditional understanding is that God decided that Job needed beat up on to build his character or teach him something, or whatever version you have.

    So God gives permission to the devil to murder the mans children causing him great grief. (Make him sick and steal his stuff)

    It sort of looks like the scriptures say just that. "Behold all he has is in your power" Seems clear..........

    Someone then presents another arguement to defend God's goodness.

    This is not a bad thing but problematic because God can be so good as to allow homosexality and so good as to remove Hell.

    Is God good enough though to not murder someones children though? Is God at least that good?

    So the person says this:

    God's response was to Satan wanting God to harm Job. All God said is NO, He is in your power, I am not harming him.

    The person shows a scripture saying give no place to the devil.
    Shows the scripture about choosing death and life that your seed may live.
    Shows the scripture that God can not be tempted with evil, neither He tries, test or temps any man with evil things. (James)

    Shows all the scriptures where we are warned to fear not 58 times be not afraid 48 times and be of good courage and many others.

    Then shows the scripture that everything that happened to Job was only those things He feared most. (Job 3:25)

    Then shows the scripture where Elihu said God will not commit wickedness but every man is rewarded according to his way. Neither will the Lord pervent Judgement........ (Break his own Word and laws)

    So, I would have to conclude that the persons arguement is reasonable, backed by many scriptures and that can effect my understanding of...

    Behold, all that He has is in your power.

    All false doctrines though have to ignore certain scriptures. So a person holding a false doctrine will not be able to reasonably explain any counter arguement in a reasonable way.

    Also a red flage for me is people Adding to scriptures things not there. God is Soverigen is not a scripture anywhere, and what is meant by that.......... God does what he wants, when He wants to who He wants? God is Lawless?

  5. By Faith, I hope you're not saying that since the Holy Spirit teaches us, we need make no effort to "rightly divide the word of truth". After all, that would mean we don't even need to bother with the Bible, especially with all those epistles explaining some of the more theoretical and technical aspects of the faith. There is a place for each part of the Body of Christ; some are called to deal with these details, and some are not. Neither should think that the other is in error. Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying, but I'm not sure how it relates to what I posted.
  6. I especially like what you have under Translation. The word-for-word translation has a totally different meaning and misses the point. Yes, this is not an exact science.

    • Translation is the restatement of words between languages. Thus any method or degree of restating words from Greek to English is a translation. In spite of terms such as literal and dynamic equivalence, it is a matter of degree rather than kind, and the boundaries between any two variations are not at all strict. A good example of the imprecise nature of translation can be seen in this German cartoon:
      The sight of oil

      The word-for-word rendering into English would be nonsense: “Oh my God! I can no oil see!” The literal rendering would be little better: “Oh my God! I can’t look at oil!” But if we wanted the English reader to get the joke, we would render it like so: “Oh my God! I can’t stand the sight of oil!” Thus any understandable translation must consider figures of speech, genre, and the thought being conveyed over sheer technical accuracy. This is not an exact science.
    Major, Abdicate and Relentless says Amen and like this.
  7. :cool:
    I should point out that this cartoon came from the Better Bibles Blog, which is in really tiny print at the base of the photo (englishbibles.blogspot.com, which may be the old address, I'm not sure).
  8. Most Western nations think logically, Greek, yet Hebrew is a creative language. When the West tries to be creative, it gets lost within a generation. Case in point: ask anyone why -gate is used to describe a scandal. Most over 35 years of age will tell you Watergate. Those under 35 may know about it, but most wouldn't have a clue. Hebrew runs on what we call root words. Off of the root, suffixes, prefixes and split the root, are added to create meaning. Here's an example: In English we have about 700,000 official words and 300,000 idioms. In Hebrew there are 1,300 root words. That's it. The Old Testament has almost 8,000 unique words off those root words. Even the same spelling of a word, but pronounced differently can have a similar but different meaning. Context is everything, what we say in English "reading between the lines". Hebrew is based on action so abstract thinking is almost impossible to write in Hebrew. The single letter Qof (ק) has a pictograph of a sunset meaning horizon, infinity, end, or behind. Why, because one always faces east (no idea why) so when the sun sets, it's behind you.

    Here's one example root example: אב AB (Father)

    Strong's #1:
    אב AB: The pictograph of an א is an ox and represents strength, the ב represents the tent. Combined these mean "the strength of the house". This can be the tent poles which hold up the tent, the house, as well as the father who holds up the family, the household.

    אב AB: The support of the tent/house.

    אב —
    I. Fruit: This word can also be fresh fruit, the father of the next generation of trees attached to the tree (pole). [Hebrew and Aramaic]
    II. Father: The father of the family provides the strength, support and structure to the household. The father fulfilled many functions for the family. He was the commander of the family army, provider of offspring to continue the family line, the priest and teacher. A father can be of the immediate family or a lineage such as Jacob who is the father of the Israelites. A father can also be the patron of a profession or art. [Hebrew and Aramaic] [freq. 1229] |kjv: father, chief, families, desire, patrimony, prince, principle, greenness, fruit| {H1, H2, H3, H4} ​

    אבה A-BH — Desire: The desires of the father. [freq. 1] |kjv: desire| {H15}

    אבב ABB : Grain
    I אביב A-BYB — Green Grain: The new green ears of growing grain as the parent seeds attached to the stalk (pole) of the next generation of crops. Also Abib, the name of a month in the Hebrew calendar. [freq. 8] |kjv: abib, corn| {H24}
    II אוב AWB: Wineskin: The wineskin hangs from the tent pole. A spiritist (possibly from their mumbling like the sound of wine poured out of the wineskin)
    III אוב AWB —
    I. Wineskin: A leather bag that holds wine and is hung from the pole of the tent.
    II. Medium: One who evokes the dead, a ghost, possibly from their mumbling like the sound of wine poured out of the wineskin. [freq. 17] |kjv: bottle, familiar spirit| {H178} ​

    יאב YAB: Desire: The firm standing of the tent pole.

    יאב Y-AB — Desire: A standing firm for what is desired. [freq. 1] (vf: Paal) |kjv: long| {H2968}

    איב AYB: Hostile, Spear, Enemy: The tent pole is pointed at one end and doubles as a spear which can be used against an enemy to defend (also a support of) the family.

    איב AYB — Hostile: To be hostile to another as an enemy. [freq. 1] (vf: Paal) |kjv: enemy| {H340}

    איבה AY-BH — Hostility: [freq. 5] |kjv: enemy, hatred| {H342}

    אויב AW-YB — Enemy: [ms: bya] [freq. 282] |kjv: enemy, foe| {H341}
    Relentless likes this.
  9. Interesting stuff, Abdicate, thanks. :) I don't know Hebrew at all.
    Abdicate likes this.
  10. Well, I'll give you a contexual basic, Just one that effects our understanding of Scripture. Man has set rules to understand what is spiritual. It fails miserably.

    Jesus said if you continue in my Word, do what I say, then the truth shall Make you free. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. He is.

    YOu said.........
    I don't even know what that is.

    However, as I said, there is just one aspect of understanding the Word. It has nothing to do with man made ideas about it.

    Joh 7:17 kjva If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

    This is no study effort. You can learn all day and not see any power. Worthless.

    No, right doctrine starts with being sold out to do the Will of God andn put God first in every aspect of your life. He says move, you move. When you get paid, His work, his will best come to mind before any bill or need. Jesus must be Lord over all things.

    Now you see way off doctrine, and blindness to scripture that contradict bad doctrine. You know the person is not sold out and the person has other first things in their life besides the Lord.

    God tells us a few things about Scripture that are for those who have the heart to do everything God would say do.

    No scripture is to be taken by itself. Private interpetation.
    All scripture to be compared to other scripture. Line upon line.

    If you have 10 that say one thing but two that counters the 10, then the whole thing needs more understanding.

    The understanding of one thing is given in many places. Here a little and there a little.

    It's these reasonings of man who make God want they think He should be. Why we come up with so many Election, Foreknowledge, and trinity doctrines, that vary from one person to another.

    The Father gave all things to the son...... That one scripture ought to make someone pause and say...... "There is a FAther and Son, there is two." It don't though, which is the sad thing because we are to compare line upon line.

    Scripture tells us how to study, Tells us who gives the increase. It's not Hermanutics or whatever you call it. It's someone set out to obey and serve God.

  11. I'm not saying in the slightest that we don't need the Holy Spirit.

    Do you define any sort of study beyond the surface "man made ideas"?

    Yes, study requires effort, and this is stated in scripture: "Study to show yourself approved". If we only need to surface-skim and just expect the Spirit to spoon-feed us, then there's no need for the scriptures at all. We are expected to study. And that's exactly what "line upon line" is all about.

    You seem to think "hermeneutics" means something from Mars I guess. All it really means is having an orderly plan of study. You are afraid of a word you don't even understand.

    I really am getting irritated with your haughty attitude here.
    Major likes this.
  12. You can actually learn something if you get past the irratations. If I am every wrong, I am very quick to admit and be corrected. I might miss a scripture or not fully understand something now and then. Nobody's understanding is perfect.

    What I am saying is that Hermeneutics is not a proper way to study, it's a form of reliegion. Scripture never mentioned Hermeneutics.
    Hermeneutics does not read by faith, and it takes faith to understand.

    Part of Hermeneutics is study based on culture, Grammer, rules of Grammer of the Greek and Hebrew Text.

    This is how Healing and tongues get's passed away with the first church. God must change somehow, who knows.

    This is how there is no Hell........ Because the acient languages had no word for Eternal, so there can't be eternal punishment following the rules of language.

    Men are ignorant of the fact that by the Holy Spirit, man had insufficient language to explain the Wisdom and of God and Spiritual laws. So the Holy Spirit gave man the best word man could use, but gave us context of the passage.

    If we apply strict Hermenutics (As most just apply it to help their own agenda's)

    Then Salvation suddenly no longer can mean saved, born again with Eternal life.

    Salvation is just a Greek Word that means physically healed and kept safe. The original word never carried any thought of eternal life.

    Scripture tell us how to read the word, we don't need mans ideas behind it.

    Culture has nothing nothing to do with anything, Every scripture is for reproof and doctrine, every single one.

    Hemenutics claim to take scripture litteral........with culture, time and so on.

    Luk 10:18-20 kjva 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

    So, what do these 3 verse mean to you?

    Is the enemy really snakes and scorpians?
    Does anything not hurting us included Atomic weapons?
    Was this for the disciples?
    When did Satan get cast out of Heaven?

    I am not trying to irriate you. I have only had a few short 17 years of Word study. I only know things in part like everyone else.
  13. That's patently false and completely ridiculous. I told you what it means, and it's nothing close to a religion. And it doesn't take hermeneutics for someone to have an agenda.

    When you make a snide remark like "You can actually learn something if you get past the irratations", and when you call an orderly study of scripture a religion and practically blame it for all false teaching, you're doing an outstanding job of irritating, whether you realize it or not. This isn't about a difference of opinion, it's about bashing something you don't understand. And if you know you only understand things in part, then you might consider dropping the attitude.

    When I come back here tomorrow, I'm going to look for a reason why I shouldn't report you.
    Major likes this.
  14. I gave the definition off a combined couple of web sites for Hermenutics. You seem to get upset easy instead of finding out where I am coming from.

    Now if I give you 3 web pages that define bible hermenutics as I defined it. Then it stands to reason that others are using the same methods of word study and call it Hermenutics.

    When I said you can learn something if you get past the irratations, the Holy Spirit does not operate under the conditions of being mad, in fear, or irratated. I can also give scripture for that.

    However, you seem to be upset about something. I can give you the websites with the definition if you like.
  15. The Senior Staff has decided to give this topic a rest. We would like to remind ALL participants that any level of sarcasm that demeans another member in any way is not a Christian thing to do. We are all here to share, to learn and to help others - not to attack, demean or badger others who may not see things the same way. Please refer to Rule # 3.2b as well as our Common Courtesy Rules.

    Thank you for your cooperation.
    Major and Relentless say Amen and like this.
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