Days Of Noah

LanceA said:
You don't have to be baptized to be saved. Water baptism as a child is a theatrical display that the parents are going to raise their child as a Christian.
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1 Peter 3:21 - "And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
 
I'd like to ask a sincere question, if I might.

If baptism is needed, what about those who repent, but die before they are baptized?
Surely Jesus isn't going to say "Sorry, you just missed it.."
 
Glomung said:
That is incorrect. It is an exorcism ritual that dedicates the child to God.
If you are going to talk about practices outside of your own church at least get the facts right.


Something to consider:

Lexicon :: Strong's G3340 - metanoeō
metanoeō
  1. to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
  2. to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins


Acts 2:38
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Question: Does Acts 2:38 prove that you have to be sorry for your sins and turn from them in order to be saved?
Answer: No. Peter was speaking to the Jews about their rejection of Jesus. They had been complicit in His crucifixion, which could not be undone. So, in this case, there is no sin to turn from. They simply needed to repent (change their minds) about who Christ is (God) and what He did for them (paid the full price for their sins). And, being baptized for the remission of sins means that once they believe, they should be baptized, not in order to become saved, but as a testimony of their belief.
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PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Consider that the verse associated with this is often understood to be:

"I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

But look how the meaning changes by simply moving the comma over one position:

"I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."
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I am not understanding the connection? :(
 
Lisa8475 said:
I am not understanding the connection? :(
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Simply that "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in Paradise" suggests the thief will be taken up into heaven instantly without being baptized which is the way many Christians understand it.

By moving the comma so that it says "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise," it no longer suggests that.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Simply that "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in Paradise" suggests the thief will be taken up into heaven instantly without being baptized which is the way many Christians understand it.

By moving the comma so that it says "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise," it no longer suggests that.
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I still don't see how this doesn't suggest that, is Jesus not speaking to the thief? And therefore the promise of life in paradise without baptism.

The moving of the comma is related how soon we will be with Jesus. Whether immediate or not.
 
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PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Yes, but he's saying you will be with me in Paradise. Not ncecessarily TODAY (in the second scenario) but after he's been baptized.
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There is no evidence whatsoever in the bible to show baptism of the dead.

Early heresiologists Epiphanius of Salamis (Panarion 28) and Chrysostom (Homilies 40) attributed the practice respectively to the Cerinthians and to the Marcionites, whom they identified as heretical "Gnostic" groups.[1] For that reason, the practice was forbidden by the Catholic Church, and is not practiced in modern mainstream Christianity, whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant.


Are you a Gnostic?
 
Lisa8475 said:
There is no evidence whatsoever in the bible to show baptism of the dead.

Early heresiologists Epiphanius of Salamis (Panarion 28) and Chrysostom (Homilies 40) attributed the practice respectively to the Cerinthians and to the Marcionites, whom they identified as heretical "Gnostic" groups.[1] For that reason, the practice was forbidden by the Catholic Church, and is not practiced in modern mainstream Christianity, whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant.


Are you a Gnostic?
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All I'm doing is showing there are different ways of reading what are not always such straightforward passages.
 
Glomung said:
That is incorrect. It is an exorcism ritual that dedicates the child to God.
If you are going to talk about practices outside of your own church at least get the facts right.

And BTW, He said "repent and be baptised", not "repent and be baptised if you feel like it".
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Well you don't have to be rude and I was talking in general not about a certain religion. Here are some scripture for you to chew on a bit.

Romans 10:9-10 ESV

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Acts 16:31 ESV

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
 
LanceA said:
Well you don't have to be rude and I was talking in general not about a certain religion. Here are some scripture for you to chew on a bit.

Romans 10:9-10 ESV

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Acts 16:31 ESV

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
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Is it not an assumption on your part that saved means one will enter the kingdom of heaven?

Jesus told us what one has to do to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus did not say saved.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”
 
Johnlove said:
Is it not an assumption on your part that saved means one will enter the kingdom of heaven?

Jesus told us what one has to do to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus did not say saved.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”
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Just because someone calls out to the Lord doesn't mean they are saved. Anyone can call out to the Lord and say Lord, Lord. If they don't know Jesus as their Lord and Savior then they aren't saved.
 
LanceA said:
Just because someone calls out to the Lord doesn't mean they are saved. Anyone can call out to the Lord and say Lord, Lord. If they don't know Jesus as their Lord and Savior then they aren't saved.
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Calling oneself "saved" when you haven't yet died to me is like walking around four hours before you've eaten calling yourself "digested". It's putting the cart before the horse.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Calling oneself "saved" when you haven't yet died to me is like walking around four hours before you've eaten calling yourself "digested". It's putting the cart before the horse.
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Lance you need to get yourself concordance, Jesus did say saved and one of the meanings of the greek word is equivalent to salvation.
 
LanceA said:
Just because someone calls out to the Lord doesn't mean they are saved. Anyone can call out to the Lord and say Lord, Lord. If they don't know Jesus as their Lord and Savior then they aren't saved.
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You have seemed to me to have avoided my question. Do you believe being saved in the verses you quoted, means one is going to heaven?

Next what do you mean by saying knowing Jesus is their Lord and savior? Again what do you believe Jesus saved us from?

If one says Jesus is their Lord, then does that not mean he or she does as his or her lord tells them to do? For Jesus to be one’s Lord then one has to obey him is that not right?

Jesus said not to sin. How many do you believe obey Jesus? Can then Jesus be the Lord of a sinner?

John tells us that if one sins then the devil is his or her lord.

() “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”
Lisa8475 said:
Lance you need to get yourself concordance, Jesus did say saved and one of the meanings of the greek word is equivalent to salvation.
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Salvation? Does that mean one will go to Heaven? If it does then it can’t contradict what Jesus said in the following scripture.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Jesus told us that one has to do the will of the Father to enter Heaven.

The Father in heaven said we are to listen to Jesus, so that is the Father’s will is it not?
 
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