Daniel 9

Who do you say the Ancient of Days is? What do you say the purpose of the vision was? I think this is why we should start from the beginning of Daniel. I can see the link of the 10 horns with Revelation verses. But as I said - I would like to know what Daniel is saying. I got the part where Daniel sees from Jermiah that it was coming close to the time for a return to Jerusalem. Is there a link with Israel retaking the city in 1967?
 
Mornin' Silk, belated Happy Birthday, I can't sing so I'll play happy birthday to you on my kazoo... LOL

Hey, where's there Rapture before the Flood? Enoch, .....voila.

Here is a sure fire test if what you believe about the Rapture is true or not!

For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (that's the rapture) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 4:15-18

Paul tells us the subject of the Rapture is a comfort to us, so if someone is making us afraid about any part of the Rapture then it goes against Scripture.

Also, the Rapture is the end of the dispensation of Grace Eph 3:2 and the beginning of the dispensation of Tribulation that will last 7 years as Scripture states, there are many more types and pictures, but I don't want to hijack this thread, so here is the most important reason the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation, Paul teaches us the believer is in Christ, so if just one child of God were to go into or through the Tribulation then God would be striking His Son the second time and He's so smart, He knew all of these false teaching about the Rapture would arise at the end so He planned for it way back in the beginning with the story of Moses striking the Rock twice!

Be comforted my sisters, ...soon and very soon we are going to see the Lord!

Beloved the prophecy of Daniel 9 is referred to as the spinal column of Bible prophecy, without a correct understand of it's meaning the rest of Bible prophecy will be askew, ...continue on Major.

Blessings,

Gene
 
Stop worrying that you are hijacking Gene - your posts are always welcome to me :) I don't believe that believers (if not raptured) will experience the same things as the non believers. I am not convinced at what is said is all. I will wait and see and rejoice harder if you are right. I want you to be right, if that helps but read my links - there are many who are also not convinced.

PS - love kazoos
 
"...there are many who are also not convinced."

Silk, you have stated the problem, we are not convinced and then we believe, but rather we believe and then the Lord will convince us, ...it's always faith first and then the peace and joy will follow.

The Church has to be Raptured before the Tribulation or else God will be striking His Son twice, once on the Cross and then in the Tribulation through the believers, which will allow Moses to cry unfair/unjust because you punished me for striking the Rock twice, which in turn will open the door for satan to cry unfair/unjust that he has to be banished to the Lake of Fire, ...do you see the can of worms this heretical teaching of the Church going into or through the Tribulation brings, isn't it much easier to just believe in faith what Paul taught us and walk/live in comfort and peace?

Blessings,

Gene
 
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"...there are many who are also not convinced."

Silk, you have stated the problem, we are not convinced and then we believe, but rather we believe and then the Lord will convince us, ...it's always faith first and then the peace and joy will follow.

The Church has to be Raptured before the Tribulation or else God will be striking His Son twice, once on the Cross and then in the Tribulation through the believers, which will allow Moses to cry unfair/unjust because you punished me for striking the Rock twice, which in turn will open the door for satan to cry unfair/unjust that he has to be banished to the Lake of Fire, ...do you see the can of worms this heretical teaching of the Church going into or through the Tribulation brings, isn't it much easier to just believe in faith what Paul taught us and walk/live in comfort and peace?

Blessings,

Gene

Gene - If the pretrib rapture happens, I'm down with it. When Christ comes in the clouds to do battle with the antichrist and his minions, there is convincing scripture that says that is when Christ rounds up His church- after the tribulation 7 years. I think God would want His best trained warriors of light on the ground floor. But there is no harm, if you are right, to believers. If the other is right, many believers will be left confused and more open to deception, not to mention unprepared and not realizing the tribulation is started. Still - I hope you are right. But why do you suppose it says in Revelation , after the the tribulation is started, that "even the Elect will be deceived"?
 
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When Christ comes in the clouds to do battle with the antichrist and his minions,there is convincing scripture that says that is when Christ rounds up His church- after the tribulation 7 years. I think God would want His best trained warriors of light on the ground floor.

Dear one, what Scriptures???

Scripture tells us Christ comes in the clouds to Rapture His Church, 1 Thess 4:17, seven years later at the Battle of Armageddon the A-C and all the armies of the world are destroyed by a sword that comes out of the mouth of Jesus Rev 19:11-21, A-C and his armies are on the ground, Jesus, and us behind Him, are coming through a door in Heaven after finishing our 7 year honeymoon (could be the same door that was opened to allow us to go in to Heaven Rev 4:1), ...there isn't any battle and we won't be doing any fighting, Jesus will just say, "be dead," and all will die, just like when they came to arrest Him and He just said His name, I Am and 600+ trained Roman soldiers fell backwards on their keisters (I sure hope we have instant replay in Heaven, I would love to see that).

Blessings,

Gene
 
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Christ comes in the clouds after the tribulation - you just quoted it. The "fighting" will be for those who can still be saved during the trib and before they take the mark. I agree with all you have said but it doesn't say that there will be a pretrib rapture. Christ doesn't come twice in the clouds. And if the Elect can be deceived during the trib - it says there are believers on earth during this time.
 
What I quoted is Christ comes in the clouds for His Church, a fulfillment of the prophecy to the Church in Acts,

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Acts 1:9-11

Christ doesn't come twice in the clouds.


At the Battle of Armageddon it says He comes through a door, not clouds, ...you said it.

The "fighting" will be for those who can still be saved during the trib and before they take the mark.

Look at what you are saying, since Jesus comes back at the end of the 7 years, then there won't be any time for those that aren't saved to take the mark, ...'cuz the Trib is over.

Silk, you are making the common mistake that the elect in Revelation are/is the Church.

Israel is called the elect of God,

For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. Isa 45:4

The Church is the elect of God, and the Tribulation saints are called the elect of God Matt 24:22, notice Jesus is telling us about events after the 3 1/2 year mark of the Trib when the A-C commits the Abomination of Desolation, besides, if the A-C could prevail against the Church then Jesus lied to us in Matthew,

And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matt 16:18

In Matt 24:4-31 Jesus is answering the question of the disciples of when will He return, what will be the signs and the end of the world? Matt 24:3

He starts off by warning the Church, proceeds to the Tribulation, the abomination of the A-C, His return from Heaven with us and the choosing of what people will go into the Millennium.

So we see the elect on the earth Matt 24:22 and there is a reference to elect coming back with Him Rev 17:14, the Church can't be in two places at the same time, Heaven and earth, 'cuz Rev 4 tells us we are taken to Heaven to be with the Lord 7 years earlier.

Blessings,

Gene
 
How did I know you were going to say the elect was Israel? After the resurrection, who is the Elect? Where is Christ when He delivers the Word/Sword from His mouth? The clouds. My faith/knowledge is based on God, not a rapture that happens pretrib. Are you saying no one is saved during the tribulation? We are not going to agree here but I hope you are right. It's not a salvation issue, at least for me. I win either way. The difference is that I won't be confused if it doesn't happen.
 
LOL, I didn't say the elect was Israel, the Word did. I'm just showing you how those that don't believe in a pre-Trib Rapture are wrong in assuming the Church is the only group of saved believers in the Word called the elect.

You have lost me, where does it say Jesus is in the clouds when the sword comes out of His mouth?

Also I don't see how what I said could infer there wouldn't be any saved during the Trib?

Time for bed, talk to you tomorrow.

Blessings,

Gene
 
Mornin' sis, I have a little time before work and I would like to expand a little more about this cloud thing.

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Act 1:9-11

We see it was the disciples that saw Him ascend and they are a type of the Church in this prophecy, notice it says they, that is the Church, will see Him return, it was His disciples that saw Him ascend, not the world, and so it will be with the Rapture, we will see Him come for us, the world will be thrown into turmoil, we know that because of the commentary in Hebrews about Enoch (a type of the Rapture of the Church before the Judgement of God fell on the earth in the Old Testament),

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Heb 11:5

We see the looked for him, but couldn't find him, that means they didn't see him go, otherwise they would of know where he had gone, ...makes sense, no?

And so it will be with the Rapture of the Church, just imagine, millions and millions of people disappear in the twinkle of an eye, in today's vernacular that is a nano second, and I believe, and this is my personal view, because of the character of my Father and the reason He spared Nineveh Jonah 4:11, ...babies and young children that have not reach the age of responsibility/accountability will be taken too, not just believers children, but non believers children too, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, New Agers, Atheists, Agnostics, all children in this category will be taken and I believe that will be the reason (the hint given to us in Hebrews) the world will come looking for us and their children.

We read during the Tribulation that so many people will be saved they can't be counted Rev 7:9, 14, who are these people, first we need to look at who they are not, Paul tells us they are not the people that have already heard the Gospel, the tares in the Kingdom Parable, pew warmers,

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2Th 2:10

what happens to them, all that have faith in the wrong Gospel, all that have accepted the social Gospel of today, the abundant life, prosperity gospel of John 10:10?

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2Th 2:11, 12

Tuff stuff to believe, but there it is written in the Word.

...lets go back to the subject of who will be saved during the Tribulation, many from the cults, false religions, New Agers, Atheists, Agnostics, probably many of those who have lost their children in the Rapture and those that knew someone that had lost children that will hear the true Gospel of 1 Cor 15:1-4 and believe in Jesus and receive a saving faith.

I know I would do anything to protect my children, it's basic human nature and I believe Father will use this love, this instinct in the non-believing world to save multitudes, I believe it will be the driving force in them to resist the A-C and ultimately die for their faith in Jesus.

So we can also see from what Paul taught that during the Trib there won't/can't be any believers on the earth, just non-believers.

Time for work, later sis,

May the Lord richly bless you today,

Gene
 
Who do you say the Ancient of Days is? What do you say the purpose of the vision was? I think this is why we should start from the beginning of Daniel. I can see the link of the 10 horns with Revelation verses. But as I said - I would like to know what Daniel is saying. I got the part where Daniel sees from Jermiah that it was coming close to the time for a return to Jerusalem. Is there a link with Israel retaking the city in 1967?

doing Daniel from the beginning---"me too"

which verse are you tying in with 1967?
 
In my blog today at illuminator -we want to know blogspot ,com I am doing a bible study on Daniel. Today I mention that when in chap.3 all the people bow down to Nebus. image. That made it obvious who wouldn't.
Daniel must not have been there for he certainly wouldn't bow. everyone bowed and so the king could see only 3 men. You see---the Jews in captivity bowed also. It is disobedience that opens the doors for the dark one to blind the eyes. We must remember that the Jews were also blinded so they would not help Jesus the Messiah when he comes---other wise they wouldn't put him on the cross. We see how God takes the actions of men and uses it for his means and glory. Just like a stagnant prayer life can be healed when trouble comes.

Because of prophesy, Jews know all about the end time things we know---accept they think Messiah is not Jesus.
Jews who come to Jesus know how it all comes together. Many of them forget to let go of Judaism though.
to a Jew the great tribulation is called the time of Jacob's trouble. This means to them they were not cleansed by the blood and forgiven. To us we know that the Lamb of God ---Jesus-- is the only blood atonement acceptable to God. The false Messiah will do the same thing Antiochus Epiphanes did which brought about Hannakuh.
I had heard that the lamp was lit supernaturally when the temple was first cleansed.

Did you know that Christians are standing in front of spiritual fire furnace right now.
 
Mornin' Silk, belated Happy Birthday, I can't sing so I'll play happy birthday to you on my kazoo... LOL

Hey, where's there Rapture before the Flood? Enoch, .....voila.

Here is a sure fire test if what you believe about the Rapture is true or not!

For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (that's the rapture) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 4:15-18

Paul tells us the subject of the Rapture is a comfort to us, so if someone is making us afraid about any part of the Rapture then it goes against Scripture.

Also, the Rapture is the end of the dispensation of Grace Eph 3:2 and the beginning of the dispensation of Tribulation that will last 7 years as Scripture states, there are many more types and pictures, but I don't want to hijack this thread, so here is the most important reason the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation, Paul teaches us the believer is in Christ, so if just one child of God were to go into or through the Tribulation then God would be striking His Son the second time and He's so smart, He knew all of these false teaching about the Rapture would arise at the end so He planned for it way back in the beginning with the story of Moses striking the Rock twice!

Be comforted my sisters, ...soon and very soon we are going to see the Lord!

Beloved the prophecy of Daniel 9 is referred to as the spinal column of Bible prophecy, without a correct understand of it's meaning the rest of Bible prophecy will be askew, ...continue on Major.

Blessings,

Gene
I'm so excited to see Him!! (Understatement)
 
brodav, good post, I hope you don't mind if I correct one thing.

It's not that the Menorah was supernaturally lit, but rather, after it was lit it was not to go out, but they only had enough oil to last one day and it took eight days to prepare more oil, the Menorah supernaturally stayed lit until the new oil was ready! Praise You Jesus!

uhmmm two things,

Here is a lesson for us, ...notice that the three Hebrew boys didn't come out of the furnace until Nebe called them out, ...as we mature in the Lord we will actually welcome tribulations because it's during these trying times we sense our Lord Jesus is the closest to us.

Blessings,

Gene

Blessings,

Gene
 
I'm with you Allie, there was a thread, What is the first thing you will say to Jesus when you see Him, ...personally, I won't say anything to Him, I'll just run to Him and let Him give me a big ole brotherly hug,


...I'm finally home!!!

Blessings,

Gene
 
brodav, good post, I hope you don't mind if I correct one thing.

It's not that the Menorah was supernaturally lit, but rather, after it was lit it was not to go out, but they only had enough oil to last one day and it took eight days to prepare more oil, the Menorah supernaturally stayed lit until the new oil was ready! Praise You Jesus!

uhmmm two things,

Here is a lesson for us, ...notice that the three Hebrew boys didn't come out of the furnace until Nebe called them out, ...as we mature in the Lord we will actually welcome tribulations because it's during these trying times we sense our Lord Jesus is the closest to us.

Blessings,

Gene

Blessings,

Gene
thanks, was blessed by your reply. If the boys didn't come out till Nebu. called them , I don't blame them. A lesson I see there is if we stay closer to Jesus being he is right with us ----in fellowship I mean--- we will stay as long as we can. The world will always try to get us to come out of his presence. In his presence is total protection and safety. After we leave in fellowship we just may find blessings and spiritual goodies come our way being very few have deep close fellowship with him. Rom. 8: all things work together for our good.
 
Yep, even if there is trouble and strife, we are totally safe and secure!

Reminds me of a story I read, I think it was John Huss, he was sentenced to be burned at the stake, he had been talking to his close friend (was it Latimor?), his friend was listening to him about Jesus, but was scared, Huss told him if there wasn't any pain while he was burning he would give him a sign, his friend stood there watching as Huss burned, no sign, he waited and waited and waited, finally it was certain his friend was dead and had died without giving him a sign, just as he turned to leave, the bones of Huss's hand sticking out of his leather coat moved........, he got his sign, ....and so it will be with us, if we are in a fiery trial, Jesus is with us, if it be His will to go home, then we won't know at what instant we passed out of the finite into Eternity!

  1. Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine!
    Oh, what a foretaste of glory divine!
    Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
    Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.
    • Refrain:
      This is my story, this is my song,
      Praising my Savior all the day long;
      This is my story, this is my song,
      Praising my Savior all the day long
  2. Perfect submission, perfect delight,
    Visions of rapture now burst on my sight;
    Angels, descending, bring from above
    Echoes of mercy, whispers of love.
  3. Perfect submission, all is at rest,
    I in my Savior am happy and blest,
    Watching and waiting, looking above,
    Filled with His goodness, lost in His love.

Blessings,

Gene
 
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