Daniel 9

The Ark​

The Ark was a tremendous project, my guess taking years to complete. It had to be seaworthy and hold many animals. It was built on dry land and cost a fortune by today's standard in the amount of material and labor.

This massive project stood for awhile, and I am sure Noah had some people thinking He was out of his mind. It was a massive symbol of what was to come, something never done before.
A vessel to save God's people.

Today:

We see the same massive symbols in many Churches who obey God. Things that were not available are now just open. Never in the church History has TV Station started to underwrite many churches so they can have air time paid for. It use to be that Churches had to have lots of money to get on TV.

Money coming in to build and make ways to broadcast the Word of God all over the World.

Going to Church the Lord spoke to me. Behold, look, my Ark of today and there are many.

Word production Center: Branson MO.

1.jpg wordproductioncenter-completed.jpg

This is one of God's project that money wise don't make a bit of sense. We have always sowed free CD materials but now the Lord said I want a warehouse, semi trucks shipping the Word out all over the World. All free of charge.

4.8 Million Dollars it took to build this, and that does not include the massive server rooms and production equipment.

This is just one Project out of many preparing the life boat for people around the world to escape what is to come. Financially it makes Zero sense.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(Mat 24:14)

The sign is on the wall, the sign is not what the World is doing or not doing, but just like in the days of Noah, it's what God has his people preparing and doing. That is the sign.

Be blessed.
 
AllieWi said:
Can we do a study in Daniel 9? I'm curious why the Jewish people cannot see it is obvious that Jesus is described on this chapter. Does anyone know what they say about this prophecy specifically? I'm always wondering about how Jews reconcile these prophecies in their minds and reject Jesus messiah---

Or is it better not to concern myself? I feel like if I know why, then I can defend the faith if I ever get into a conversation with a Jewish person.
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Seeing that we have no more response to Daniel 9:3-4, shall we go on to verses 5-6?

Daniel 9:5-6 (NKJV)
"we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. "

Confession of sin, both individual and collectively were made in these verses.

"WE HAVE SINNED". That means Daniel included himself with his people. It is important to see and understand that Daniel did not place himself on a pedestal and consider himself more righteous than the others. A Nations sins must be confessed by God's people if that nation expects God to have mercy on their land.
 
Major said:
We are on the same page but I think you used 365 days in a year and I used the Jewish calculation of 360 days in a year.

The time span from Artaxerxes' decree to rebuild Jerusalem in Nehemiah 2:1-8 was in the 9th month Nisan, 444 BC.
Daniel calculated with prophetical years and not solar years so that is where I got the 360 days. using those numbers, the time from March 444 BC to the crucifixion of Christ (Messiah) in April 33 AD covered 483 years or 173,880 prophetical days.

What this means is that Daniel predicted 483 years from the start of rebuilding Jerusalem to the crucifixion(Cut off) of the Messiah
and he was 100% correct to the very year.
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the way it works

number of weeks times 7 to get years

number of years times 365

divided by 360

add in the left over days
 
360-days vs. 365-days

From Creation to the flood a year was 360 days and the days of Hezekiah finished the transition to 356.2425 days. While it's a lot to take in, the scriptures, through deduction, even say it'll return to 360 days in the end. But from Daniel's prophecy fulfillment to Jesus' death was with the 356.2425 days/year count. While I don't have a specific section in my study, search War of the Worlds (Appendix D) and the date of the Passover to the Feast of Trumpets when the days are shortened to read up on it. Scientists reject the worldwide account of the calendars changing in ~701 BC, all of them, as just being lazying time keepers. So what happened? Hezekiah's 10 degree change. There's no lore that I know of that explains HOW it happened, just that it was the last time Mars interfered with the earth. The first time is thought to be the Flood. The land of Israel and the Middle East went from being a land of milk and honey with two men needed to carry one bunch of grapes to desert land. The scriptures give us all these clues, but no explanation. For tonight I leave you with this odd verse:

Psalms 89:10 (KJV)
Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.

Isaiah 51:9 (KJV)
Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. [Art] thou not it that hath cut Rahab, [and] wounded the dragon?

While some commentators use Rahab as being Egypt, they really do not know what it was. The words for ancient days and generations of old imply a time long before the flood. It is suggested that it was a planet that was destroyed between Mars and Jupiter, which is now only an asteroid belt and when this planet was destroyed it allowed Mars to setting in its current orbit. Read this article (http://science.howstuffworks.com/asteroid-belt2.htm) Remember the scriputres give us lots of clues and it's up to use to put the pieces of the puzzel back together.

Have you, the reader of this, ever thought why since we were kids love to solve puzzles and play games? All throughout written history all civilizations have games to play and when we're older solve mysteries. This is by far one of the biggest whoppers of a mystery. I leave you with this to ponder as I go to bed.

Notice this about the end times:

Isaiah 24:18-20 (KJV)
And it shall come to pass, [that] he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
 
Major said:
Seeing that we have no more response to Daniel 9:3-4, shall we go on to verses 5-6?

Daniel 9:5-6 (NKJV)
"we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. "

Confession of sin, both individual and collectively were made in these verses.

"WE HAVE SINNED". That means Daniel included himself with his people. It is important to see and understand that Daniel did not place himself on a pedestal and consider himself more righteous than the others. A Nations sins must be confessed by God's people if that nation expects God to have mercy on their land.
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Wait...can we start from the beginning of Daniel?
 
Regarding the Ark as rapture - 8 people, I don't see this as a "rapture" nor of single bodies being taken. The patriarchal line all died before the flood - so death took God's people. Major you already know the argument that the rapture was invented in the 1800's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture). I agree that Christ is coming in the clouds and will swoop all believers up with Him but we don't know when that occurs but it seems to me that He comes thus after the tribulation. But hey --- I don't want to be going thru the tribulation either. But just in case the rapture is not part of the plan - it will confuse a lot of faithful if they get "left behind". Just saying. I want a rapture but it is wiser to plan for either case, IMHO.
Also - counter arguments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
 
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Silk said:
Regarding the Ark as rapture - 8 people, I don't see this as a "rapture" nor of single bodies being taken. The patriarchal line all died before the flood - so death took God's people. Major you already know the argument that the rapture was invented in the 1800's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture). I agree that Christ is coming in the clouds and will swoop all believers up with Him but we don't know when that occurs but it seems to me that He comes thus after the tribulation. But hey --- I don't want to be going thru the tribulation either. But just in case the rapture is not part of the plan - it will confuse a lot of faithful if they get "left behind". Just saying. I want a rapture but it is wiser to plan for either case, IMHO.
Also - counter arguments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
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If you went through the Tribulation Silk. Where would you go?

And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
(Rev 9:3-4)

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
(Rev 7:3-4)

Unless your part of that 144,000 out of the tribes of the Children of Israel, and have the seal on your forehead, you best learn to run fast, because those things are gonna get you.

If there is no rapture of course.

If there is no rapture before Tribulation, best start getting in shape.
 
Or this http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/08/08/234333/-History-of-Rapture-Doctrine

MichaelH - Let me repeat - I don't want to live during the tribulation. Now that I am 62 (since yesterday) I hope I will already be in the Lord's embrace. I have been given dreams since I was a child of the end of days and believe me - I don't want to be there. But, wherever I am, I will be where God wants me. There are many different views of this - all accompanied by scripture. I don't know of a christian who wants to live thru the tribulation, or doesn't hope for a rapture. I am not convinced it is a part of God's plan and if there is a rapture - I won't be left behind because of a lack of faith. Besides - Major is gonna make sure (Silk <-----loved that). :) I will be the first to say maybe I misunderstood, but it has been given me to know I will be here for the start of the tribulation. I'm hoping I got it wrong.
 
Silk said:
Wait...can we start from the beginning of Daniel?
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Certainly. This is a forum. We can do what we want to do.

Instead of starting over.....why not read comments #25, 51, and 62.

If you have any input or comments, post them and we can go on from here.
 
Silk said:
Or this http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/08/08/234333/-History-of-Rapture-Doctrine

MichaelH - Let me repeat - I don't want to live during the tribulation. Now that I am 62 (since yesterday) I hope I will already be in the Lord's embrace. I have been given dreams since I was a child of the end of days and believe me - I don't want to be there. But, wherever I am, I will be where God wants me. There are many different views of this - all accompanied by scripture. I don't know of a christian who wants to live thru the tribulation, or doesn't hope for a rapture. I am not convinced it is a part of God's plan and if there is a rapture - I won't be left behind because of a lack of faith. Besides - Major is gonna make sure (Silk <-----loved that). :) I will be the first to say maybe I misunderstood, but it has been given me to know I will be here for the start of the tribulation. I'm hoping I got it wrong.
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Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birth dayyyyyyyy!
 
Silk said:
Regarding the Ark as rapture - 8 people, I don't see this as a "rapture" nor of single bodies being taken. The patriarchal line all died before the flood - so death took God's people. Major you already know the argument that the rapture was invented in the 1800's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture). I agree that Christ is coming in the clouds and will swoop all believers up with Him but we don't know when that occurs but it seems to me that He comes thus after the tribulation. But hey --- I don't want to be going thru the tribulation either. But just in case the rapture is not part of the plan - it will confuse a lot of faithful if they get "left behind". Just saying. I want a rapture but it is wiser to plan for either case, IMHO.
Also - counter arguments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture[/QUOTE]

Silk........it is a "PICTURE". A TYPE or a LESSON which is there for us to learn from.

Silk.........the Rapture was not invented by Darby in 1850's. The fact is that Paul wrote to the Corinthians and Thessalonians in 65 AD. The words that Dr. Darby extrapolated were in the Bible for 2000 years. The Rapture has been or the PICTURES of it (examples) have been in the Bible since it was written.

Example. The words of Jeremiah were in Scripture concerning the Jews in captivity and their captivity of 490 years in Babylon were coming to an end. ONLY DANIEL read those words and understood them and came to the conclusion that the captivity of his people was coming to an end.

How different is that from Dr. Darby coming to the conclusion that an event was going to happen called the Rapture which was and had been in the Scripture for thousands of years.
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Major said:
Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birth dayyyyyyyy!
Click to expand...

Aw thanks (I'm 39). You are divinely sweet. I did read the posts (I always do) but I am more in learning mode as I don't feel I know Daniel as well as I should or you. (I enjoyed when Th1Bill did a thread - whatever happened to him?) but maybe you could do a summary for Daniel 1-9. I agree that understanding Daniel is important.
 
Silk said:
Regarding the Ark as rapture - 8 people, I don't see this as a "rapture" nor of single bodies being taken. The patriarchal line all died before the flood - so death took God's people. Major you already know the argument that the rapture was invented in the 1800's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture). I agree that Christ is coming in the clouds and will swoop all believers up with Him but we don't know when that occurs but it seems to me that He comes thus after the tribulation. But hey --- I don't want to be going thru the tribulation either. But just in case the rapture is not part of the plan - it will confuse a lot of faithful if they get "left behind". Just saying. I want a rapture but it is wiser to plan for either case, IMHO.
Also - counter arguments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture[/QUOTE]

Silk........it is a "PICTURE". A TYPE or a LESSON which is there for us to learn from.

Silk.........the Rapture was not invented by Darby in 1850's. The fact is that Paul wrote to the Corinthians and Thessalonians in 65 AD. The words that Dr. Darby extrapolated were in the Bible for 2000 years. The Rapture has been or the PICTURES of it (examples) have been in the Bible since it was written.

Example. The words of Jeremiah were in Scripture concerning the Jews in captivity and their captivity of 490 years in Babylon were coming to an end. ONLY DANIEL read those words and understood them and came to the conclusion that the captivity of his people was coming to an end.

How different is that from Dr. Darby coming to the conclusion that an event was going to happen called the Rapture which was and had been in the Scripture for thousands of years.
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I have no idea what happened on comment #74. My post disappeared somewhere but when I cliked "Click to expand" there it was at the bottom. ???????

Anyway, here it is again....

Silk........it is a "PICTURE". A TYPE or a LESSON which is there for us to learn from.
Silk.........the Rapture was not invented by Darby in 1850's. The fact is that Paul wrote to the Corinthians and Thessalonians in 65 AD. The words that Dr. Darby extrapolated were in the Bible for 2000 years. The Rapture has been or the PICTURES of it (examples) have been in the Bible since it was written.
Example. The words of Jeremiah were in Scripture concerning the Jews in captivity and their captivity of 490 years in Babylon were coming to an end. ONLY DANIEL read those words and understood them and came to the conclusion that the captivity of his people was coming to an end.
How different is that from Dr. Darby coming to the conclusion that an event was going to happen called the Rapture which was and had been in the Scripture for thousands of years.
 
I am just leaving the links to show that there is more than one viewpoint on this and the 1st link was all about what Paul said and a different interpetation. That's all. I am not opposed to a Rapture, as I've said - I just don't agree/am not convinced that it is scripturally proved.
 
Silk said:
Aw thanks (I'm 39). You are divinely sweet. I did read the posts (I always do) but I am more in learning mode as I don't feel I know Daniel as well as I should or you. (I enjoyed when Th1Bill did a thread - whatever happened to him?) but maybe you could do a summary for Daniel 1-9. I agree that understanding Daniel is important.
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I do not know. He had MS so it may be that he is not able to continue physically or he may even have go home to be with the Lord. I miss him also!

MODERATORS.........have any of you been informed of our brother Th1Bill???????????
 
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Silk said:
I am just leaving the links to show that there is more than one viewpoint on this and the 1st link was all about what Paul said and a different interpetation. That's all. I am not opposed to a Rapture, as I've said - I just don't agree/am not convinced that it is scripturally proved.
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I understand that.
 
Silk said:
OK - I missed where Daniel says there will be a rapture.
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That is a good question. You already know that I understand the Bible and not what any denomination teaches us to say or learn. So what I give you must be considered with prayer.

Going back to Daniel 7 we can see in verse 7 that Daniel saw the 4th beast with 10 horns (revived Rome) And while he was thinking about the horns he spotted the little horn, the anti-Christ. These are things that happen on Earth. As he was looking at the horns, he also saw thrones being set in place with the Ancient of Days and 10,000 times 10,000 standing before Him.
These things happen in Heaven at the same time as those on Earth.

Daniel’s vision doesn’t reveal the number of thrones or who sat on them, nor dies it identify the huge number standing before the Ancient of Days. It’s purpose is to show God’s version of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 2, with wild animals in place of the different metals, the 10 horns as the toes of iron mixed with clay and the Lord as the stone cut without hands that became a mountain filling the whole Earth.

Both were overviews of Gentile Dominion, and neither one contains any clear reference to the Church. Some people will read into this to say that it is a "picture" of the Rapture. They will say that with the additional knowledge gained from Revelation we can see hints of the church in the multiple thrones and the large numbers around them in Daniel 7, but IMHO that’s incidental to the purpose of the vision.

Again, it would be a mistake to use Daniel 7 to contradict the later and more detailed vision of Revelation, which depicts the Throne of God with the Raptured Church in chapters 4-5, the anti-Christ’s introduction in the first seal of chapter 6 and his ascension to world leadership with Satan’s indwelling in chapter 13.

Remember that God told Daniel to seal up his book until the time of the end. THEN would things become clearer and more understanding......hence the explanations of Dr. Darby in 1850's on the Rapture.
 
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