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Daily Thought - The Pope Problem And Catholic Question

Discussion in 'Thoughts for Today' started by anthony wade, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus - 1Timothy 2: 5 (NIV)

    The Pope made the news again this week much to the dismay of the hierarchy of Catholicism. Francis is widely becoming known for his radical departures from Catholic orthodoxy in his attempts to reach people outside the church. This results in church leadership embarrassingly releasing “explanatory notes” to clarify how someone who is supposed to possess Papal Infallibility keeps stumbling over himself when it comes to crucial doctrine. In a letter written to and published in a liberal Italian Newspaper, Francis stated the following:

    The question for those who do not believe in God is to follow their own conscience. Sin, even for a non-believer, is when one goes against one's conscience. To listen and to follow your conscience means that you understand the difference between good and evil.

    For someone who is supposed to be imbued with heavenly power to infallibly proclaim Christ’s doctrine, the Pope falls well short of the mark here. There is no question for those who do not believe:

    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. - John 14: 6 (NIV)

    There is no equivocation here in the words of Jesus. There is no alternate papal translation that can bring the words of Francis even close to matching Scripture. Is this an exclusionary verse? Absolutely. Remember beloved, the Gospel when preached correctly is not designed to bring people together to play church and sing kumbya. Jesus referred to it as a sword that will split families apart. People - and that means all people - must decide to accept Christ and go onto eternal life or reject Him and go onto eternal damnation. Sorry if that grates against the delicate sensibilities of a world gone mad but I didn’t write the book - I just preach what it says.

    And what of the proposed solution from the man who claims to be Christ’s representative on earth? Those who do not believe should just follow their own conscience? Really? The dictionary defines conscience as an inner sense of right and wrong. The problem of course with this proposed solution is that the heart of man is inherently wicked and everyone would have their own interpretation of what is right and what is wrong. God has turned such over to their reprobate mind already! To follow your conscience does NOT mean you understand good and evil as God does! And to what end is this outreach? The Bible teaches us that the things of God are foolishness to those who are perishing yet the Pope apparently is trying to assuage people who openly deny the existence of God by saying God still will accept them? Here is the response from the leading organization of atheists:

    "Why should a non-believer seek legitimization from the Pope?" What interests non-believers is certainly not 'forgiveness' from an entity whose existence we do not trust."

    Only the Gospel of Jesus Christ has the power of salvation. Not any man, including the Pope. The problems however transcend this incident. It seems all Christendom reacts as if the Pope is somehow not leading a church rife with false teachings and doctrinal errors to begin with. Between indulgences for the non existent purgatory and the deification of Mary, are a slew of instructions that teaches reliance upon the Catholic Church instead of on God. Now, let me be clear. There are plenty of Catholics who enjoy a real relationship with Jesus Christ and stand within the Body of Christ while there are far too many Pentecostals who play church every week and are not truly saved. This is not a denominational argument at all. The denominational arguments are actually made within the belief system of Catholicism. For explanation, let us return to another gaffe from the Vicar of Christ. During a homily in May of this year, Francis said that atheists would be welcomed in heaven if they “do good.” The Vatican quickly issued “explanatory notes” emphasizing that people who are not members of the Catholic Church cannot be saved.

    While the Catholic Church still considers homosexuality a sin, Francis has said to reporters in July that he would not judge priests for being gay. He is quoted as saying, “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” In another “explanatory note”, a Vatican spokesman reminded us all of how warped true Catholic doctrine is when he said that “those who know about the Catholic Church cannot be saved if they refuse to enter her or remain in her.” This of course in an abuse of Scripture:

    “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. - John 15: 1-4 (NIV)

    The Catholic Church is not Jesus Christ. The Pope is not the Vicar of Christ. There is not one Bible verse that supports the notion that we must remain in the Catholic Church in order to be saved. The same is true for any church! We are saved through our faith in the work of Christ on the cross. We are not saved through our consciences beloved. I understand the human desire to reach out and touch people for Jesus but compromising the Gospel will not result in one person being saved. Do not look to any man for salvation beloved. We are all completely fallible, even the Pope. As the key verse explains there is only one man who may serve as mediator between God and man and His name is not Francis. It is Jesus.

    Rev. Anthony.
  2. You are doing a wonderful job of misrepresenting Catholic teaching. Perhaps ypou should make yourself a bit more aquainted with what the Church actually teaches before commenting "through your hat".
    The Pope is only infallible on issues of faith and doctrine when speaking formally on such matters, not when comenting off the cuff. And it amuses me no end that protestants criticise the pope constantly for claiming to have the authority to discern doctrine, when each and every single protestant claims to have that same authority themselves.
    As to following your conscience, "the laws of God are written in the hearts of all men", if we would actually listen to what is already written there, we would follow God's law, that is what the Pope is alluding to.

    I'll ignore the paragraph that is essentially slander except for one comment - nobody deifies Mary, that is a blatantly false accusation.

    On gays, it is sex outside of a man+woman marriage that is the sin, not a misdirected desire. If a person can have the homosexual tendency without acting upon it there is no sin.

    Try working on your own faith instead of bashing others.
  3. First let me say I'm not Catholic bashing, just correcting a misunderstanding.

    The Word of God clearly states that homosexual and/or lesbian tendencies are because that person has rejected the knowledge of God,

    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    Rom 1:18-32

    Brothers, let's not be persuaded by the LGBT propaganda, it's NOT a error of God to put a man in a woman's body or vice versa, Paul clearly teaches they have rejected the knowledge given to them by God about Himself.


  4. Sigh...talk about misrepresenting...

    First of all I specifically said that the Papal Infallibility is referring to his representation of Christ's doctrine. Here is the quote you must have missed - "For someone who is supposed to be imbued with heavenly power to infallibly proclaim Christ’s doctrine." You know where I got this? From the Catholic Church explaining Papal Infallibility. Maybe you should do some research before slandering someone. You want to parse hairs by saying something was "off the cuff?" This was a letter written by him in response to a question from the Newspaper. He was speaking as the Pope. He was wrong.

    Secondly, I never said that he doesn't have the authority to discern doctrine, we all are commanded to by the Bible. I said he wasn't INFALLIBLE, as Papal Infallibility states he is.

    Thirdly, I was raised Catholic and served as an altar boy for ten years. I was taught that I should pray to Mary. That is what I refer to as deification. As for the rest being slander, back up what you accuse me of or don't mention it.

    Lastly, I do not understand you point on the homosexuality issue. I did not issue the correction of the Pope - the Vatican did.

    I might add that I specifically said that no church holds any such position and that this was not a denominational issue. I write extensively about the abuses within all churches so that people are not deceived. Everything I write is fully supported by Scripture.
  5. I am not Catholic bashing either. I specifically said that there are plenty of Catholics who share a genuine relationship with Christ and plenty of Pentecostals who play church and do not have that relationship. I am here to represent God and His Word - PERIOD. Read Matthew 7 and realize that too many people follow false teaching and will get to the last day only to discover Christ never knew them. That is the burden God has given me.

    Thank you for reminding me to work on my own walk. I can never hear that enough.
  6. Actually it is Necromancy, which is forbidden in the Bible.

    Websters definition:

    NECROMANCY, n. [Gr. Dead, and divination.]

    1. The art of revealing future events by means of a pretended communication with the dead. This imposture is prohibited. Deu 18.

    2. Enchantment; conjuration.

    I post this with a heavy heart, but we are called to be the light of the world.

  7. Interesting point. I think that when you "pray", you are attempting to communicate with someone you consider divine, otherwise why bother? That was why I referred to it as deification. Thanks.
  8. Why do you allow your children to pray to you?
    Do you have a bloody clue what the word pray means?
  9. Thank you Glomung for answering, please understand I'm not bashing you, I'm just curious about what you believe.

    Am I correct, from you above response, that you are suggesting you are a descendent of Mary?

  10. First of all, I do not know anyone who has their children pray to them. Secondly, this is the definition from dictionary.com...

    "to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to (God or an object of worship). "

    Pray is not just to ask, it is to ask God or someone you are worshipping. Look, I do not see where you have an objection. I did not correct the Pope first, the Vatican did three times.
  11. I agree it is an exclusionary verse: but who is know who are excluded?
    not you, not a reverend, not a pope, not a pastor, not me.... only Jesus....
  12. Not sure what you are trying to say. I was referring to John 14:6 which say the only way to God is through Jesus. Thus it excludes anyone who has not placed their faith in Christ

  13. Sorry for this, am back again : )

    Am back and forth with being a “gospel exclusivism” and “agnosticism with the faith of the unevangelized”.
    here is a link to explain the terms use....it is a long read ...... though I also read (and with thanks) yours : )
    1. Church Exclusivism
    2. Gospel Exclusivism
    3. Special Revelation Exclusivism

    4. Agnosticism (as to the fate of the unevangelized)
    5. General Revelation Inclusivism
    6. World Religions Inclusivism
    7. Postmortem Evangelism
    8. Universalism
    9. Pluralism

    ...Historically, the church has primarily taught church exclusivism, gospel exclusivism, special revelation exclusivism, or pessimistic agnosticism"
  14. I try to stay away from being pigeonholed by men seeking to quantify what is of God. His ways are higher than ours. I rely on the Bible, period. The vast majority of those positions in the article are in direct violation of Scripture, thus can be safely dismissed, including church exclusivism. John 14:6 would seem to lean towards Gospel exclusivism, no? Very interesting article.
  15. "that you are suggesting you are a descendent of Mary?"

    It is times like this that I wonder if we speak the same language. I did not say anything that could possible be construed in any way to suggest that I consider myself a descendent of Mary Mother of Jesus. As I would assume you know, Mary had one child only, our Lord Jesus Christ, and He had no children. Do you support the Carolingian heresy?

    The word "pray" means to ask, as in "I pray thee tarry a while" means "would you wait a while".
    Every single time one of your children asks you for something they are praying to you. Don't confuse paryer with adoration or worship. Praying to a Saint is exactly the same as "Bob can you do me a favor?".
  16. Perhaps it is cultural? You used the term "bloody" so are you from England? In the states I have never heard the word pray used that way. Pray is always the divine here. But I don't want to argue over linguistics or anything for that matter. If the devotional offended I am sorry. My intent was to stay true to Scripture. Thanks.

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