1. Hello Guest! You are browsing the forums as a guest; you will have limited permissions as a guest so we advise registering to enjoy the forums fully. Remember: we are a Christian ONLY site - any user who is not Christian will not be approved. Blessings, Christian Forum Site Staff
    Dismiss Notice

Daily Thought - Joseph Prince Tries To "daddify" God Our Father

Discussion in 'Thoughts for Today' started by anthony wade, May 5, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

  1. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. - Romans 8: 15 (KJV)

    Let me begin today by exclaiming that God is our Father! He created us. He cares for us as our Father. He loves us as our Father. This is not an exercise in saying one name for God is better or more important than another. They all matter because they all are who our God is. He is our provider. He is our banner. He is our righteousness. He is our deliverer. He is our Lord. He is our King. He is our Father. The second observation I would like to state is that the sermon I am commenting on today, while containing some factual and hermeneutical errors, is not necessarily a big deal on its own. Within the overall context of balanced theology, there is absolutely nothing wrong with reminding us that God is our Father and we can go to Him as such. Images of the Father in the Prodigal Son comes to mind when I consider God as our Father. Always searching the horizon for His child to come back home. It is a glorious presentation of the Father's love and willingness to accept back His wayward children.

    That being said, the problem is that this sermon is given by Joseph Prince and he has an overall gospel that is contrary to the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Prince openly admits that he has been given a different gospel, a gospel of grace, through divine revelation. Unfortunately for Prince, this definition renders his entire gospel as anathema according to the Bible:

    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1: 8-9 (ESV)

    In previous discussions regarding the divinely revealed "gospel of grace" that Prince preaches we have seen the necessity to twist and contort the Word of God in order to fit the revelation. This is of course an extremely dangerous habit to engage in as a preacher. We should always approach the Word of God wanting to hear what God wants to say - not trying to prove what position we might already hold. We have seen Prince twist the parable of the 99 and the 1 into a new definition of repentance; meaning just consenting to be loved. We have seen him twist the verse in Revelation from Jesus about spewing the lukewarmness of the Laodicean Church into yet another poor comparison of law and grace. How we handle the Word of God is extremely important. Mishandling it leads people astray. People led astray may very well end up with them on the last day saying - "Lord Lord." Here is a link to the sermon from Prince we will be discussing today:

    We must remember that a major part of the problem within hyper-grace is that it seeks to change the nature of God by overly focusing on the positive and pretending the negative no longer pertains to believers. I have heard hyper-grace preachers flat out say that Christians should discard the Ten Commandments. So within hyper-grace God is always love and His wrath is always for someone else. Recently I wrote about Prince preaching that Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5 must have been unbelievers because God would not pour His wrath out on them as such if they were. Any coherent, competent reading of Acts 5 in context clearly reveals that Ananias and Sapphira were in fact believers. But when your job is selling hyper-grace they cannot be or else your whole gospel is revealed to be a fraud.

    In this latest sermon Prince is determined to "daddify" God into this sugar coated caricature that fits his hyper-grace model. Listen to the sermon snippet, as it is less than 10 minutes and then let us consider the following:

    1) The term "abba" does NOT mean daddy. I know this will come as a shock to many but if you do your research and check with language experts you will discover as I did that abba does not mean daddy. It actually does not even require that much in depth research. Barnes Note on the Bible for example:

    Abba This word is Chaldee (אבא abba), and means "father." Why the apostle repeats the word in a different language, is not known. The Syriac reads it. "By which we call the Father our Father." It is probable that the repetition here denotes merely intensity, and is designed to denote the interest with which a Christian dwells on the name, in the spirit of an affectionate, tender child. It is not unusual to repeat such terms of affection; compare Matthew 7:22; Psalm 8:1. This is an evidence of piety that is easily applied. He that can in sincerity, and with ardent affection apply this term to God, addressing him with a filial spirit as his Father, has the spirit of a Christian. Every child of God has this spirit; and he that has it not is a stranger to piety.

    The usage of the word father in the text is greek, so essentially Paul presents two words, both meaning father, in two distinct languages. As Barnes points out, it may be for effect, even childlike, but the word remains father. The best translation is probably "dearest father." As far as linguistics go, Greek has a word for daddy; pappas. Is this a big deal? Well, it seems to be the crux of the argument presented by Prince. But rest assured Joseph Prince always must bring every message back to the premise of hyper grace.

    2) He gets there about half way through this clip when he declares that the entire context of Romans 8:15 is speaking against fearing God. He is correct in pointing out that it deals with a bondage to sin and law and that the grace of God has set us free but the overall statement urging listeners to no longer fear God is not only inaccurate biblically but it is pure folly. The Bible still says that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and that we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. There is nothing in Romans 8:15 that changes these verses.

    3) Prince goes on to discuss excerpts from Matthew 6 about God feeding the birds of the air and that surely He cares more for you. All true but being used here in another attempt to slather everyone so much with the love of God while avoiding the context. Prince never goes down a couple lines where Jesus summarizes these thoughts:

    But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. - Matthew 6: 33 (ESV)

    Seek His grace? No - seek His righteousness! Prince never skips to the next chapter, which is still the same Sermon on the Mount where Jesus warns about people who think they are heaven bound but are not:

    And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ - Matthew 7: 23 (ESV)

    Why are they not heaven bound? Lawlessness! Well that doesn't fit the hyper-grace model too well! Beloved, is this one sermon in and of itself problematic? Not really. It is poorly put together, especially when he claims that the name "Father" is greater than all of the Old Testament names for God. But therein lies the problem. The gospel Prince teaches affirms that this New Testament god is greater than the Old Testament God. No need to call Him Lord or revere Him - just cry out daddy daddy. But Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. I do not need a revelation given to Joseph Prince because I have all of God's revealed will right here in the Bible. Even under the umbrella of fathership, Prince misses the larger picture:

    It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. - Hebrews 12: 7-11 (ESV)

    No good father would ignore the behavior of his child. No good father would spare the rod. The entire foundation of the hyper-grace message falls apart when you look at the totality of Scripture. It is maddening to talk to someone who has drank the Prince kool-aid because all they can do is sputter out any Bible verse that contains the word "grace" as if those in disagreement somehow disagree with grace. We do not. We disagree with those who would cheapen it. Those who would cheapen the work of the cross. Those such as Joseph Prince.

    Rev. Anthony.
  2. I thought you vanished man................... who is this Prince dude again? I did ask for your help in the "NO Eternal punishment thread:" No help!!!

    I understand the "HYPER" grace model.......................

    If you were teaching on the great grace of God, and his arm extended to all the people of the earth, do I bust your "balls" if you don't happen to mention obedience?

    Faith and obedience......... I mean strict obedience to the word and what God has called you to do, will bring blessing. The scripture does not teach grace to sin and do wrong.

    You know there is discipline by the Word, then there is judgement so that we be not condemned with the World. That normally brings death of the body, much like Paul turning over the one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.

    I had a hyper grace model, but a brother I knew had a assistant Pastor position kept for him in chicago, kept his family together, and blessed him. He taught about God's will to heal and faith.

    He got out of prison, and ran a bit behind in bills. He figured just one more drug drop to catch the bills up and no problem.

    That one deal cost him his life, and he was found dead in a ally.

    I wondered about that, and why the harsh judgement after all God did for him.

    You can't violate the light you have, it can cost you.
  3. Thats weird, i thought you disappeared. I do not remember seeing your request for help. Is that conversation still going on?
  4. sigh............... We were talking about Healing, and I asked for help in the thread about no eternal punishment. Agree with everything or not, does not mean I don't trust your calling God gave you or teaching ability.

    Nobody breaks it down like Anthony!!!

    Now, me being WOF and you Anti WOF, has nothing to do with my trust in you. Does not mean I won't pick on you, but does not mean I don't love you ether.

    anyway, the thread got closed, and I got warned.

    Be blessed Brother Anthony!!!

    Jesus is Lord!!
  5. Man, I'm sorry. I am blanking. I don't remember it. Poke me in the head next time, lol.
  6. OK, but back to hyper Grace..............

    there was another thread about this and a women upset that her Husband got involved in this doctrine to where he thought drinking Beer was Ok and treating her as he wanted.

    God is good, but not so good that sin is OK without consequences. I have found that even repenting for the same sin allowed brings consequences.

    As my Pastor said, God does forgive, but sin kills something in our life and does bring death of things in our life.

  7. double post.......... so..... who cares.

    Just for a quick definition. What do you believe the Hyper Grace message teaches?

    I believe it teaches that Jesus paid for all our sins, Past, present and future, and that we are saved by grace, and not any work of ourselves. So, we cherish the flesh desire and God is OK with that.

    What Paul say........ I bring my body in subjection......... James said receive with meekness the engrafted Word that is able to save our thinking.... (soul) put away all sin from you. The scripture tells us to cast down thoughts contrary to the Word and be transformed. Nothing about God's grace to continue in sin. Paul said put away the old man........ Lots of things we do also.

  8. I think hyper grace takes it beyond scripture. It pretends the law is irrelevant in the lives of Christians. Even though lip service is paid to "not sinning heaven forbid" the express result of the teaching is that you don't have to worry about sin. Hence why the husband thought drinking and abuse are ok, because after all - Jesus died for those sins.

    What I am seeing now in Prince specifically is he has run out of grace scriptures to preach on so he is venturing into other scriptures looking to "prove" his gospel. He has abused the 99 and 1 parable claiming the definition of repentance is merely "consenting to be loved." That is a horrific twisting of Scripture. He also abused the spew you out of my mouth warning to the Laodecian church. He claimed that cold is the law, hot is grace and lukewarm is when you mix them. Patently absurd. He also twisted Acts 5 claiming Ananias and Sapphira must have been unbelievers because God struck them dead. Any coherent reading of Acts 4 and 5 sees that they were believers.

    I also now have been asked to weigh in on a new teaching of Prince called the Benjamin Generation. I am still researching but it appears pretty egregious as well.
  9. Obviously it also runs into the once saved always saved debate. Without getting into that the real problem is I would be worried about anyone who thinks they were "saved" under a prince teaching. If repentance means merely consenting to be loved then you probably have never repented. Once again why the husband thinks his behavior isn't relevant.
  10. Repentance means merely consenting to be loved. Repent means to turn from though. Sounds pretty strange, never heard hyper grace like that before.
  11. That's prince
  12. I watched the 99 and 1 sermon. I'd never paid him attention before. He came on after someone else I was watching and I didn't turn the tv off. It's hard for me to see how he came up with his teaching in the first place. Like you said rev he has to prove his gospel since it does not line up with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's highly digestible and inoffensive to the lost. That's the greatest danger.
    anthony wade likes this.
  13. absolutely. His is one of the most dangerous teachings because so much of it sounds right. The part that is wrong though can kill you. Thankfully the longer he goes the more he has to stretch to prove his gospel and the easier it is to see through it.
  14. Well, I can't agree with that teaching, but i am sure he is a nice guy.
  15. Ga 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
    7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
    Euphemia likes this.
  16. GREAT VIDEO! Thanks for posting it! This guy is great and right on target with the Spirit of God!

    Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

    Ga 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    The bible is so true...:D

    Ga 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
    29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
    Euphemia likes this.
  17. Here is another good one...been looking for a place to post good sermons..thanks for the thread...:eek:
    Euphemia likes this.
  18. Sigh...

    As I have stated before and you keep brilliantly displaying - it is impossible to have a Biblical conversation with an adherent of hyper-grace. That is because their only answer is to regurgitate every verse that contains the word grace as if you are against it, which of course no one is.

    As for this latest piece of Prince heresy you posted...where do we start...

    1) The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is NOT the law. That is absurd and it highlights the slick dangers of hyper-grace. By drawing the comparison within the framework of hyper grace you essentially teach that God is telling us to stay way from the law, as He once commanded Adam and Eve to not eat from that tree. It is an insidious comparison with no Scriptural basis.

    2) He seemed to get a little confused when discussing the fear of death, which deals with eternal judgment, with being afraid of the devil, who can still adversely affect our temporal lives as well as lead us away from the faith, depending on your theological view of the permanence of salvation.

    3) Ironically Prince finally said something I can shout amen to! Satan does come as an emissary of light and even from the mouth of a preacher...Joseph Prince, meet the mirror. Mirror...meet Joseph Prince.
  19. 2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord;
  20. Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
    4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page