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Daily Thought - God Is Not Warning America

Discussion in 'Thoughts for Today' started by anthony wade, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes. - Matthew 24: 37-39



    A tornado touches down in the mid-west - God is warning America! There was another school shooting - God is warning America! Remember 9-11 - God is warning America! These are the cries from the church anytime anything at all seems to happen in the normal course of daily life in this country. This from a church that only discusses sin from an outward perspective. A church that refuses to look inward at itself and see the role they are playing and the very message God is sending to us.



    Here is the today's deep theology. God is not warning America. He already has. He has already warned all of us. It is called the Bible. We simply need to read it more, seek it more and believe it more. Instead however we tend to seek out books like The Harbinger, which dances around numerology to tell us something we should already know - Jesus is coming back and soon. The real reason why the church becomes semi-obsessed with books such as The Harbinger however is that it casts the blame towards the world for all of the ills and judgment that will be coming from God. But preacher - what about that earthquake!



    And you will hear of wars and threats of wars, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won’t follow immediately. Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world. But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come. - Matthew 6: 6-8 (NLT)



    God has already warned us that there will be an increase in natural disasters and that they will come as birth pains. This means we can expect them to come more frequently and more dramatically. The severe changes in weather patterns should not surprise a Bible believing Christian who has read the warnings in His Word. Nor should it send us scurrying to judge a world that is already facing the judgment of God. It should send us running to the lost to tell them about the love of Jesus Christ and the power of His salvation over their sin. But preacher - what about the shooting at Newtown Elementary?



    Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. - Matthew 6: 12 (NLT)



    The real problem at Newtown, or Aurora, or Columbine has nothing to do with guns. It has nothing to do with "mental illness." It has to do with good and evil. As abhorrent as Newtown was it should not have come as a surprise to a Bible believing Christian who has read the warnings in His Word. Nor should it send us screaming at the world that they don't allow God in School. As if God was on the street corner wishing He could get in! Stop it! God is in the schools. God is everywhere. There is nowhere man can banish Him from! What we really end up doing with debates such as that, or the recent one over the comments by the Duck Dynasty patriarch, is yelling at a blind man for being unable to see.



    Jesus spoke to the people once more and said, “I am the light of the world. If you follow me, you won’t have to walk in darkness, because you will have the light that leads to life.” - John 8: 12 (NLT)



    The world is walking in darkness and the things of God are utter foolishness to them. Yet there we go as the church trying to have a spiritual debate with people who do not have the spirit of God indwelt. But preacher - what about terrorism and 9-11?



    I have told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” - John 16: 33 (NLT)



    No one could have imagined the scope of 9-11 but the will behind the atrocity should not have caught us by surprise. Jesus Himself warns us here that we will have many trials and sorrows. I know this flies in the face of modern preaching which is another reason why the purpose driven seeker friendly agenda is weakening the church. This new kumbya Christianity built upon cheap grace and false love does not prepare the would be Christian for what lies ahead. The Bible has warned us that we ourselves will be persecuted for His name! And for the record, A and E suspending Phil Robertson is not persecution.



    The modern church is all about the crown of glory but never speaks about the crown of thorns. These trials and tribulations should make us introspective. We need to be looking at ourselves beloved and what we are doing to advance the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The only thing that will have eternal value is those that are found in the Lamb's Book of Life. That is it. When we stand before Christ we will not be discussing our fantastic political involvement. We will not be talking about how we stood up to those awful sinners in the world. Jesus is going to want to know how we loved the lost. It is not the well who need a doctor. Jesus ate with the most despised classes of people in His day. He embraced tax collectors and reached out to touch lepers. Yet we turn to the sinful in this lifetime with an accusatory finger extended and say if only you would turn back to God everything would be OK! Beloved - they cannot turn back to God because they never knew Him to begin with! That is the fundamental problem with the underpinning of the arguments found in books such as the Harbinger. People who never knew God cannot "turn back to Him." Instead they need to hear the Gospel.



    he key verses today are more warnings from Jesus Himself. We need to realize today that we are living in the days of Noah and people are simply not ready for the judgment that is coming. Getting into endless social, cultural and political debates with them will not save them. Only the Gospel has the power unto their salvation. God has warned us all.



    Rev. Anthony.
     
    Brother_Mike_V likes this.
  2. Reverand Anthony,

    I thank you for your many posts and reflections of what is going on in the world and in the church, particularly drawing attention to the wolves in sheeps clothing. That is appreciated.

    One exception, however, is the thoughts on the Harbinger and the fictional/non-fictional book he wrote. Having just read it, I believe to cast stones against this book is like casting a stone against your fellow watchman on the wall. I believe the words and the story in the book has God's anointing all over it, and it is to serve a purpose.

    So what about all those earthquakes and such as Jesus said would increase as in the days of Noah? Go back to Genesis 6, in verse 5 it sets the stage for what was going on in the world at that time. Evil was in their hearts continually.

    Move along to verses 11 to 13 describes the conditions of not only the physical world, but explains the cause and effect of evilness. Essentially the earth is throwing up its inhabitants before its eyes because the physical world is responding to the evilness associated with man. In the truest sense, climate change is man-made because we have forsaken God and his ways. The bible is wrought with examples of when there is severe famine in the land, it was more times than not in a state of when Israel, or the surrounding nations was in rebellion against God or doing evil in his eyes. In Leviticus 18:24-30 describes even the wickedness of the inhabitants of Canaan had an effect on the land.

    God is warning us. We can see the signs all around us. To cast stones though at this fellow watchman, when it is completely unwarranted, is in error IMHO. We need more men and women like you and him to sound the alarm.

     
  3. I appreciate your concerns. Allow me to make some points.

    1) I do not view this piece as "casting stones" at Cahn. Reasonable people can always disagree.

    2) The fundamental underpinnings of Cahn's arguments are simply in error. I do not think he has done so purposefully but that has no relevance to whether the teaching is wrong. The flawed premise is that America is like Israel in that they were once under covenant with God and now have drifted away, bringing judgment upon themselves. This is inaccurate. America was never under covenant with God. Only Israel and the church are under covenant with God. I used to teach American history and I can tell you while many of the founding fathers believed in A god, they did not believe in THE God. Many were deists.

    3) The history of this country also displays a country that was hardly "Christian" in values. From the near eradication of the American Indians to slavery, to children in sweatshops, to imperialistic designs on other countries to all of the current era abuses it is a stretch to say that we were "Christian" and certainly we were not under any covenant with God. Was the country more religious 100 years ago? Sure but so was the world. What we see today is a degradation of society as a whole.

    4) Without the underpinning his entire argument falls flat. He also delves into borderline numerology, trying to find patterns in numbers to explain some kind of "message" from God. Again, I am not questioning his heart, only his teaching.

    5) The larger point of bringing The Harbinger into this conversation was more about the church's obsession with finding revelations other than what God has already provided for us in His Word.

    6) You can say the events such as 9-11 or Newtown are warnings from God but they are more confirmations of warnings we have already received in the Bible. If we must feel they are also current warnings they are warnings to the church to step up our evangelism as the days grow short. They cannot be warnings to America, as they are unsaved, walking in darkness and the things of God are foolishness to them.

    Thanks for your thoughts and look forward to further discussion if you so desire.
     
  4. Thank you for that.

    I have re-read chapter 19 and checked the references as supplied in the back of the book, and he makes a good case and argument for his position. I have read some of the history of George Washington and him being a member of the masons and whether he was a true believer, only God knows. I will not guess whether those who were Anglicans, Catholics, Quakers were legitimate believers or not, but the prevailing belief was in Jesus and upwards of 80% of the population (from what I gathered) attended church and people set aside one day at least to honor God. Would it be safe to say less than 20% do that now?

    Ephesians 2:11-22 and Romans 11 with Ruth being an example is we are co-heirs of the promises given to Israel. At the same token, we are promised of the blessings for obedience as Israel was and did at times, but also the curses for disobedience as Israel far to often did and received as well. Is it by no strange coincidence that whenever America takes action to have Israel give up some of its land, calamity appears at its shores? http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/natural-disasters-and-harming-israel/

    I will have to disagree. And I will use the case of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Were they perfect? No. Were they sometimes liars, swindlers, cheats, etc? Yes. Did they often have the most dysfunctional home life on that side of the ocean? Yes. The point is, God still used them to do his will and are the founders of our faith.

    America is and has never been perfect. While we can be reflective and question Christianity then and now. I believe given the cultural contexts of the time, the people and churches did the best they could for that time. Hindsight is always 50 50, but IMO I believe many churches and hearts were in the right place even if their plans seem savage to us now. I see the book making a solid argument about the country being in covenant with God.

    The bible is wrought with numbers, patterns and cycles. Psalm 23:3 would better be translated as cycles of righteousness instead of paths of righteousness. You see from our weekly days, to the weekly sabbaths, to the new moons, to the annual feasts, the land rests, jubilee years, God runs in cycles of blessings and curses. Leviticus 26 speaks of if Israel does not obey, they will be cursed to allow the land to recover from all the sabbaths and rests the land did not receive while they inhabited it. My point is God wants us to know when certain things will happen, and he wants us to get back on his calendar, not ours. The gregorian calendar is certainly not it.

    What he speaks of with Tishrei 1 in 2001 and 2008 IMO is not merely coincidental. Interesting to see what will happen on Tishrei 1 2015. Time will tell I guess.

    The book does an impeccable job showing today's events with scriptural support.

    I see 9/11 as the hedge of protection being removed from the nation, and tragedies such as Newtown as being symptomatic of how we have taken God out of our schools such as the 10 commandments, like: "Thou shalt not murder." God surely is warning America and wants to have compassion on America as he wanted on Nineveh.

    Jonah 4 11 Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?”

    Is calamity coming against America as it was, and did against Nineveh? I truly do not know that.
     
  5. I have re-read chapter 19 and checked the references as supplied in the back of the book, and he makes a good case and argument for his position. I have read some of the history of George Washington and him being a member of the masons and whether he was a true believer, only God knows. I will not guess whether those who were Anglicans, Catholics, Quakers were legitimate believers or not, but the prevailing belief was in Jesus and upwards of 80% of the population (from what I gathered) attended church and people set aside one day at least to honor God. Would it be safe to say less than 20% do that now?


    1) I agree some were "believers" but many were not. Their insistence on freedom of religion was for any religion, not just bible believing Christianity.


    2) Romans and Ephesians were written to believers. That is who is under covenant; the church.


    3) The point about the US paying a price for not supporting Israel is supported by Scripture in that any who curse Israel will be cursed. That does not however transfer a covenant unto us as a country. 4) You compare Abram, Isaac and Jacob, who were under covenant with God with the US who never were. That again is the primary mistake in Cahn's premise. I will be honest, if every founding father was a believer the US still has never been in covenant with God.

    5) You say that churches hearts were in the right place historically and even if that is true it only furthers my point. The church is under covenant with God, America as a country never has been. I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing. Cahn is not allowed to read a covenant in where one does not belong. Only God can offer the covenant. It would not matter if everyone who started this country claimed affiliation with Christ, there is no scriptural basis for a covenant, other than with the church.


    6) Two points about your argument regarding numerology. First of all, the Bible is the inspired word of God, Cahn is not. Therefore just because the Bible may have used numbers we accept that as coming from God. The larger point however is that i do not see any numerology in Scripture. That is people reading into a set of numbers to try and say God is saying something. There was no need for such because God always had His prophets so there was no need to read numbers to try and guess what God might be saying.


    7) The harbinger may indeed do "an impeccable" job of using scripture to support current events. That was what I highlighted in the piece. The Bible is God's revealed will and shows all of the prophecy we need until Christ comes. The problem is when someone tries to add to Scripture and claim some additional revelation based upon some set of numeric patterns. Realize they make make sense and appear impeccable but that does not mean they are from God at all.

    8) If 9-11 was the removal of a hedge of protection then how do we explain everything bad tat happened prior? My point is that I rely on the Bible solely.

    9) I see Newtown as the continual degradation of society as the love of most wanes cold. One of my pet peeves is this argument that "God has been removed from the schools." That is simply untrue. God goes wherever He pleases. Now, the fact that society moves further away from God certainly can be the reason so maybe we are just splitting hairs.

    10) God doesn't want any to perish so He wants to show compassion towards all, not just America.


    11) I love that verse from Jonah. Of course this was prior to the new covenant with Jesus and the church.

    12) Is calamity coming against the US? Sure and the whole world. It will be the great tribulation. Could the US fall prior? Sure. Can sin be at the root cause? Sure. None of that puts us in covenant with God. These warnings are for the church so that we can try and bring as many to the cross as possible before the end.


    Thanks for the discussion!
     

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