Curious questions.

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Allen kosto, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. Well im in a different situation then the average christian.
    I am currently studying many different aspects of the bible, torah and quran.
    I was born a catholic but never growing up had i believed many things that were told to me about the bible, due to the fact my father forced us to read the bible everyday.
    Im glad he did, because i learned alot.

    But i have questions because i am still battling between whats right and whats wrong.

    For example, apparently we don't need to follow the old Laws,
    Problem is, some christians say we do (why is that?) Some say we dont (why is that?) some say Paul said after jesus came, we dont need to know more (why is that?)

    Because the bible clearly says in Mathew 10:18 WE DO infact need to follow it.

    My point is why do we have so many people saying different things, I dont want to be apart of this Blind following traditions anymore.
    What is right, and what is wrong.
    Jesus is my main source, so if jesus says this, why dont we do it. Because Paul? Is pauls words greater than jesus. Not in my opinion.

    I only want opinions please, because everyone has different opinons. I just add all the facts up and make my own conclusion later. Thanks.

    Later i want opinions on the trinity.
    For example Jesus in John 17:3 said the Father is the only true god..

  2. Why are you bothering with the Quran? That is nothing more than nonsense dictated by demons to a dullard and then edited by a zealot.
    Major likes this.
  3. It doesn't hurt to gain more knowledge.
    Many things it claims is very interesting although im never convinced by anything untill ive seen proof or did the critical thinking to say "Hey, this makes sense"

    My grandfather was a priest, and he would be disappointed in me.

    But im disappointed that he brought many lies towards me, not intentional lies, but lies that were just brought onto all of our faiths.
  4. Well in the absence of a revelation from the Holy Spirit...

    1. There is a God.
    2. He clearly protected the Jews.
    3. Jesus clearly came from the Jews.
    4. The bible speaks of the good and bad of the Jews = very likely accurate history.
    5. All evidence around us points to a good God existing.
    6. A good God would want to reach out to us.
    7. The bible either is or is not the word of God.
    8. All scripture is thus inspired by God / He had His hand on those who wrote it.
    9. God does not waste His time. Everything penned in scripture is important for us.
    10. If something annoyed God such that in His wisdom He ordained the penalty be stoning to death....only a fool would ignore that.
    11. God made His wishes clearly known to the Jews (for a purpose) and us Christians today (because we are in a live relationship with Him), but make no mistake, ONLY grey matter between ears is needed for accountability. God never gave Cain the ten commandments. He knew killing Abel was wrong.
    12. Repenting from sin / hating what is evil has been an instruction / desire from God to mankind from day one.

    The difference between the OT and the NT is imho best explained by considering OT Abrahams bosom and Hades. Both those in Hades and Abrahams bosom had sin. But, what got Lazarus into paradise and the rich man into Hades? It was because Lazarus hated evil / repented Psalm 51:17 and the rich man did not. Salvation that they had nothing to do with was when Jesus took them from paradise to heaven. So today we can also preach the good news that Jesus is God 1 Cor 12:3, who defeated sin on the cross for us / showing us the greatest act of love He can John 15:13.

    Gospel OT = repent from sin
    Gospel NT = repent from sin and good news

    I have to include these scripture for you ;)....

    2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
    Rom 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
    Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.
    Eve468 and calvin say Amen and like this.
  5. #6 KingJ, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
    You have to apply grey matter to this. 1. There are around 70 prophets with power from God that visited the Jews...but only one, who happened to be the 'final one' to the Muslims... 2. Jesus changed the world / started a 'religion' based your enemy. Muhammad the opposite. Read Napoleons argument for the divinity of Jesus

    Though scripture does tell us that it is only possible to call Jesus Lord with the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3. The Holy Spirit does not just do this / Jesus may be knocking Rev 3:20 but does not come in un invited.

    Anyone can invite Him, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist...but once invited in we all become Christians 2 Cor :17.

    James 4:8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
    Major, xspinningisfun and calvin says Amen and like this.
  6. KingJ seemed to have a great answer.

    The OT and the NT, despite what some people think, are not in conflict with one another. The alignment of each covenant are astoundingly fitting in fact.

    There are two kind of Laws expressed in the OT; 1) the Laws of Moses. These were the laws made for the Jewish people to follow (the dietary laws, the hygienic laws, etc.) and 2) the divine Laws of God. These are the Laws God has instituted, not just for the Jews, but for all people to follow (worshiping only Him, not murdering, not committing adultery, etc.). The Mosaic laws were laws enacted prior to a savior. When God was made flesh, Christ never tossed these laws out, He fulfilled them. And the divine laws which were given to all people were highlighted even more so with the fulfillment of Christ.

    This is why when people compare, say, eating shellfish to homosexuality, they are using a false dichotomy.

    Why there are so many groups that say different things (for example, I have met some Christians groups that believe fornication literally only translated to prostitution, so sleeping with someone out of wedlock isn't a sin according to them) is caused by individuals who decided they could translate the Scriptures their own way. This is why Martin Luther said before he died that there are not just as many heads as there is churches (or denominations). This is why there are many doctrinal disagreements among Christians.
  7. Your father made you read the Bible every day? Wow, that was unusual. A great thing he did, but unusual! I was brought up Catholic, also, and my father made us pray the rosary every day, not read the Bible. We had one Bible that sat in reverence on the mantle, and were told as children, not to touch it, because if we dropped it, we would grow horns!

    First, I would say, never stop reading the Bible. It has to be strongest out of all the other reading you do, because THAT is your standard. You measure everything against God's Word. This knowledge will protect you against the lies you will face in other readings, even truth mixed with lie.

    Second,we don't have to follow Old Testament regulations as far as animal sacrifices for sin, and all the grain offering and drink offerings, etc. Jesus died on the cross as the perfect sacrifice. Period. That's the end of that. We need to accept that and believe it.

    Third, you are right about many people saying many different things, and it is confusing. It used to confuse me, too, and I decided to turn off all that noise, get the Bible, and ask God to show me what is true. If you stay in the Word for life, the Holy Spirit will guide you in everything, even things that are not specifically addressed in Scriptures.
    Eve468 and Lanolin say Amen and like this.
  8. I am curious, what do you assume that your grandfather lied about?
    Just because doctrine is not balatantly explained in the scriptures does not make it false.
  9. Just to keep everyone aware -- before we get to heavily into doctrinal discussion, this thread will be closely monitored. We want to make sure that no rules are violated in the discussion.
    xspinningisfun, / and Cinderella8 says Amen and like this.
  10. The Holy Spirit is only One that will give you the truth! 1John 2:17. Indeed do not listen to man except with the filtered ears of the Spirit. Contradictions in the word of God are from the confused self-centered men who state ignorance of that same word of God. Pray and meditate on the word of God and ask the Lord to reveal it to you.
    Cinderella8 likes this.
  11. Interesting! What kind of priest? I though you said you were raised Catholic (which usually means Roman Catholic) and if RC then it is not possible for a priest to legitimately be your grandfather....???
    Major likes this.
  12. #13 LysanderShapiro, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
    It is. There are some Roman Catholics who were married prior to conversion and later confirmed and could be ordained (not very common, but does happen and is permitted). And then there are Byzantine Catholics (in communion with Rome) who do marry even after ordination -- not most commonly, but occasionally.
  13. My advice is to read Paul's books, especially Romans, and see if you can find how it fits and agrees with Jesus' directives. Make sure to use the context of the other main points from Jesus. For example, John 3:
    15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    and John 6:

    28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

    29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

    40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

    47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

    Jesus stresses many times to believe on Him for everlasting life, not following the law. When He does talk about following the law, it is usually with someone, or a group, who is concerned with following the law, sometimes for those looking to "earn" righteousness, or those who wanted to trap Jesus in some sort of blasphemy.
    Jesus did say the most important commands were to love God totally, and love others as you do yourself. All the law hangs on those two. He did add one. To love as I (Jesus) have loved. To me that says, follow those, and then all the other laws will take care of themselves. I think the vast majority of Christians would agree that those laws of love are the ones we should follow. Then I think Paul follows in agreement to what Jesus was all about.
    xspinningisfun likes this.
  14. Just as a point of inquiry; are you studying other sacred texts for a religious reason or just for general interest?

  15. Hello Allen,
    I simply wanted to respond to one part of your post because it is of great concern to me. I mean it bothers me that we have so many different types of Christian beliefs.
    There is only one God
    There is only one Son
    There is only one Holy Spirit.
    One written word or the Bible.
    It is really quite simple really. Follows God's plan for man and we all could be of one accord and making things happen and seeing signs and wonders following us.

    BUT then there is MAN....seems that man or people get in the way. Every one wants to be right, and smarter then the next guy and so on and so forth. They lack dicipline and approuch the word of God with a slothful lazy attitude and insist on using their own understanding.
    Man insist they know best.

    I see it all the time. Christians and churches fighting over who has the best or correct doctrine or what God really does today and does not do any more. They blame what they dont understand on Go instead of seek His face and getting revelation knowledge.
    Starting to get the picture.....

    I believe from what I have read and heard over the past several months there is going to be a split if you will in the body of Christ. Those who will seek God with all their being and heart and WALK BY FAITH and believe His word and go forth in victory and they will see people healed right and left and so forth. A movment of God, like in acts type of thing.....then there are the others....slothful and lazy carnal minded Christians that will be left to waunder around trying to make it this life just like the wordly people and will be in STRUGGLE mode.

    They are still saved dont get me wrong there.........We are being called, who will God use ? Simply those who show up.........
    Cinderella8 likes this.
  16. Here is my thoughts; and as Abdicate mentioned, filter all things through the Holy Spirit, Bible, and prayer.

    The 1st testament laws are to show us a few things; what is right and wrong, that man has a hard time not sinning and that blood needs to be shed for the redemption of sin. It teaches us how to come clean; physically (example: washing with running water) and spiritually (the sacrifice of the lamb, OT, and Jesus (Lamb of God) sacrifice.

    Since Jesus sacrifice we have Him for atonement and animal sacrifice is no longer needed, but we should try to take heed of the other instructions in the law.

    There is a great many things that are fabricated to distract us from Gods instructions. A lot of people read this scripture - Ex.20:2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. - And they think very little about it, yet it is repeated many times through scripture. Now if we are to be guided/governed by God, He doesn't want us to be lorded over by anyone but Him.

    God wants His peoples' allegiance to Him, not to a piece of cloth/flag or a monarchy/government.

    Something else to keep in mind, all through the bible it says, 'keep my commandments'. Even Jesus says it -
    [ Jesus Promises Another Helper ] “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

    Jesus also tells us the two most important commandments, Matt 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’40 On these two commandments hang all the Law....

    So if we focus on those two commandments we should come into alignment with the rest.

    Also, man made law IMO is one of those distractions to divert attention away from Gods' law, and in man made holidays too.

    Now just to clarify a few points. I, myself, am not a teacher, but a student. I've learned a great deal from Gods' laws, but I don't hang my atonement on them. I do observe the sabbath on Saturday, but I haven't started to observe the 7 other festivals mentioned in the bible, but I want to learn more about them and I would like to honor them some day.
    Cinderella8 likes this.
  17. I have never met a Christian who believed we had to follow the laws of the OT, the natural Jews don't even follow them because there isn't a temple. It's impossible to do so at the moment.
  18. Well, not much to add but you only need to read the Bible to and think of what Jesus did on the cross to understand the new covenant he has with us. If you not born a Jew or Israelite then you dont need to follow the old laws as they were put there for them.

    Jesus gave us only two commandments..I will let you find out for yourself what they are...
    Hint..they are in gospels and esp Johns letters
    And those two commandments, if practised, fulfill all the 363 odd ones God gave moses to write down (the laws) because it is done in the right spirit. If you walk in the spirit, there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

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