Creation -v- Evolution: For The Young People

A few years back there was a story about some prehistoric cave drawings showing dinosaurs. The caves were in europe. If I remember correctly they were either in France or Spain. At first these drawing were kept secret or least not publicized. Then, when the story got out, the aetheistics tried to debunk them as counterfeits. The last I heard the drawings were vandalised. I have long forgotten which website had these drawings so I would have to start from scratch to find them. Otherwise I would give you guys a link.
Another place that shows possible dinosaur /human interaction is Dinosaur Valley State Park in Glen Rose, Texas. There are fossilized tracks showing where a dinosaur walked through deep mud with human-like tracks walking in his footsteps as if to avoid the muck.
A good amount of interesting creation evidence can be found at the creation science museum located between Glen Rose and Dinosaur Valley Park. The christians who founded the museum believe the dinosaurs were wiped out during the Great Flood. They showed how the atmosphere was different before the firmament collapsed and that the atmospheric pressure was much greater along with a higher O2 content. They say this is why prehistoric creatures were so large. The world was like a hyprbolic chamber and once the firmament collapsed, all the dinosaurs that didn't drown.....suffocated.
If you look at the anatomy of dinosaurs you can see they have a rather large rear end and abdomen, then their bodies taper off rather quickly as you go forward toward the head. They seem to have been created for a firmament equipped earth and not able to survive in a thinner, less oxygenated atmosphere.
To support the theory of a once heavily oxygenated atmosphere, they have an ancient tool on display with metallurgy not possible in today's atmosphere.
To test their theory of differing atmospheres between today and pre-flood, they built a chamber where they introduced a greater amount of O2 and atmospheric pressure. They then filled it with water a raised a fish in it. The fish grew something like 3 times it's normal size in 1/3 the normal time.
There is much evidence out there supporting creationism than people think. You can find the evidence....it really comes down to how much you really wanna know. SEEK and ye shall find.
 
Don't get me wrong-I believe in the Biblical Creation. The problem I see is that the world's view is if you even have an inclination towards a "Creator"/ "Designer" AKA: God, it is automatically thrown in the hogwash bin. Then compile on top of that, the only "Creationists" that get any attention are the 'extremists' that have a tendency to be just as looney as the extremists on the evolution side.

It just goes back too: unbelievers WILL NOT believe the Bible. That is why we are commanded to preach the Gospel message-not creation, or any other doctrine, to unbelievers.
 
DRS, I hear you but I looked into creationism because I wanted to know for myself. Thats the reason I don't remember the websites. I'm not prepared to defend the creation viewpoint in minute detail. Nor am I prepared to present the position to others. I don't really care how the world views it. I'm convinced that not only is the creationist position possible but probable. I only said what I did so others can go look for themselves. If people REALLY want to know then they will pursue knowledge about God and His creation. If they are ashamed, embarrassed or afraid that information running counter to the "prevailing" evolutionist viewpoint might burst their bubble or crumble some pillar they've relied on then they will shrink away.....and thats OK.
 
You could check out:

www.icr.org They are a more scientific based organization

www.creationtoday.org is a spinoff from drdino.com after Kent Hovind went to prison for tax evasion. There is some interesting stuff there-tread lightly though...

www.answersingenesis.org is interesting as well.

There are other tidbits I will try to remember; it has been years actually since I concerned myself with the Creation V Evolution debate. So I am sure there are newer points and newer counter evolution theories on the table than I am aware. The point I was trying to make with my opening point is this: The theory of evolution takes as much faith / belief (if not more) in thinking it actually happened as Creation does. Mainly because of how ridiculous the evolutionary process is. Consider the full foundation of the theory: the human race would have had to evolve through every known species to get to where we are today according to evolution. Doesn't that make your common sensor go off?

I wouldn't recommend the laymen to debate an evolutionist-I wouldn't even raise the issue. Quite frankly it is a waste of your time. When matters of the soul are on line for eternity-The Gospel is our #1 concern.

That being said: I was never a stanch evolutionist-but the idea was implanted in my head so I guess I figured it must have been true and 'scientific' for most of my life. I was reached through the the Creation Ministry if you will-mainly because I always harbored doubts about evolution AND my heart was open to the truth-which is the key.

If someone's heart is not open-you won't get your foot in the door.
 
Evolution needs to be taught vigorously in schools. It is the basis for biology and also factors into many other disciplines. If we ignore it, or pretend like it's wrong because it doesn't (have to) start with a Divine Being, we will stymy our own scientific progress and shoot ourselves in the foot. Part of what makes this country great is that we have been pushing the cutting edge in science. Now, we are starting to fall behind other countries and that does not bode well.

Teach evolution in the classroom.
 
Wow...you have some very serious misconceptions about the theory of evolution.

BTW, speaking of the bulloney sensor...isn't it odd that Hox genes are found in fruit flies and in humans? Either God is a very conservative guy, or there is some lineage for all living beings.

Guess my "heart is not open" but my brain is...


You could check out:

www.icr.org They are a more scientific based organization

www.creationtoday.org is a spinoff from drdino.com after Kent Hovind went to prison for tax evasion. There is some interesting stuff there-tread lightly though...

www.answersingenesis.org is interesting as well.

There are other tidbits I will try to remember; it has been years actually since I concerned myself with the Creation V Evolution debate. So I am sure there are newer points and newer counter evolution theories on the table than I am aware. The point I was trying to make with my opening point is this: The theory of evolution takes as much faith / belief (if not more) in thinking it actually happened as Creation does. Mainly because of how ridiculous the evolutionary process is. Consider the full foundation of the theory: the human race would have had to evolve through every known species to get to where we are today according to evolution. Doesn't that make your common sensor go off?

I wouldn't recommend the laymen to debate an evolutionist-I wouldn't even raise the issue. Quite frankly it is a waste of your time. When matters of the soul are on line for eternity-The Gospel is our #1 concern.

That being said: I was never a stanch evolutionist-but the idea was implanted in my head so I guess I figured it must have been true and 'scientific' for most of my life. I was reached through the the Creation Ministry if you will-mainly because I always harbored doubts about evolution AND my heart was open to the truth-which is the key.

If someone's heart is not open-you won't get your foot in the door.
 
Evolution needs to be taught vigorously in schools. It is the basis for biology and also factors into many other disciplines. If we ignore it, or pretend like it's wrong because it doesn't (have to) start with a Divine Being, we will stymy our own scientific progress and shoot ourselves in the foot. Part of what makes this country great is that we have been pushing the cutting edge in science. Now, we are starting to fall behind other countries and that does not bode well.

Teach evolution in the classroom.
I am curious, how do you see evolution and Christianity compatible? Rejecting evolution is not rejecting science. Teach science and Christianity. Christianity is after all absolute truth. Do you agree?
 
I just can't see how the fossil record shows evidence of evolution. It only shows evidence of extinction. To make evolution palatable atheists say it took millions of years for animals to evolve. If this were true then there would be millions, billions and maybe trillions of fossil evidence showing this evolving business. Instead , it shows one extinct species and then a jump to another extinct species. OK. What happened in between? They say another million years? Where are the millions of fossils showing this changing evolution? Even the evolutionists can't explain the huge gaps in the fossil record so they punted and say the evolution happened suddenly and that is supposed to explain one species suddenly becoming another?
Theres the bulloooony. And I do mean loony.
BTW Why should we trust atheistic scientists anyway? They said man caused global warming. The Russians came out several years ago and said we were just experiencing solar cycles causing the warming. Then several european nations came out and stated the same thing. And now even the UN has had to admit the Sun is the greatest contributor to the earth's climate. And yet the atheist scientists were cooking data to bulster their defective theory.
 
Wow...if you cherry pick your "facts" from all of the evidence that is out there, you can arrive at this very narrow and distorted view of the world.

Wrong on the entire theory behind evolution and wrong on the state of science in general (particularly global warming).

If one priest had sex with a young boy, do you then discard every other priest as a pedophile? Of course not. Science, like religion, is run by man and there are going to be people who pervert the system. If you care to get educated, then you can't fall into the trap of easy answers (i.e., I don't like global warming, so let me find someone who fabricated data and then throw out the entire theory despite very compelling evidence).

Same goes with evolutionary theory. There is a reason why the National Academy of Sciences comprising the smartest scientist in the world (a minority of whom do actually believe in God) came out with a strong statement asserting that there is no argument about evolution. If you knew more science, you'd know that to be true.

I just can't see how the fossil record shows evidence of evolution. It only shows evidence of extinction. To make evolution palatable atheists say it took millions of years for animals to evolve. If this were true then there would be millions, billions and maybe trillions of fossil evidence showing this evolving business. Instead , it shows one extinct species and then a jump to another extinct species. OK. What happened in between? They say another million years? Where are the millions of fossils showing this changing evolution? Even the evolutionists can't explain the huge gaps in the fossil record so they punted and say the evolution happened suddenly and that is supposed to explain one species suddenly becoming another?
Theres the bulloooony. And I do mean loony.
BTW Why should we trust atheistic scientists anyway? They said man caused global warming. The Russians came out several years ago and said we were just experiencing solar cycles causing the warming. Then several european nations came out and stated the same thing. And now even the UN has had to admit the Sun is the greatest contributor to the earth's climate. And yet the atheist scientists were cooking data to bulster their defective theory.
 
Evolution is about much more than origins. It is one of the foundations of science. It has tremendous explanatory power. Christianity is about faith. It will never be proven in the scientific sense. There is a leap of faith that is involved (as is true of all religions).


I am curious, how do you see evolution and Christianity compatible? Rejecting evolution is not rejecting science. Teach science and Christianity. Christianity is after all absolute truth. Do you agree?
 
Wow...if you cherry pick your "facts" from all of the evidence that is out there, you can arrive at this very narrow and distorted view of the world.

Wrong on the entire theory behind evolution and wrong on the state of science in general (particularly global warming).

If one priest had sex with a young boy, do you then discard every other priest as a pedophile? Of course not. Science, like religion, is run by man and there are going to be people who pervert the system. If you care to get educated, then you can't fall into the trap of easy answers (i.e., I don't like global warming, so let me find someone who fabricated data and then throw out the entire theory despite very compelling evidence).

Same goes with evolutionary theory. There is a reason why the National Academy of Sciences comprising the smartest scientist in the world (a minority of whom do actually believe in God) came out with a strong statement asserting that there is no argument about evolution. If you knew more science, you'd know that to be true.
Evolution is based on circular reasoning and looking at the data with the conclusion already assumed.

The data do not support the theory. There is no way, that even with the supposed billions of years they postulate, that a process driven by mutations (of which maybe only 1 in a thousand is actually beneficial) can arrive at the extremely complex organisms with the highly intricate and involved systems which sustain them.

The smartest scientists can be fooled.
 
You don't need 'evolution' to teach science-thus you are just confirming my point after years of evolution indoctrination #1 you BELIEVE that it is science and #2 it is somehow necessary in the scientific process. Which it is not. This is the reason why I quit trying to argue the creation versus evolution point: you will believe one religion over the other.

Human nature leans towards sin rather than God; more people want to believe evolution so they can use the 'I am just an animal anyway' excuse to be selfish. Ahhhh...sin nature will get you with vain imagination every time.

Too bad intelligent people can't see through the obvious facade-OH YEAH- the Bible calls that 'willful ignorance'.
 
Again, a total misunderstanding about how evolution works. You want easy? That's not reality. Evolution is far more complex and non-beneficial mutations can certainly thrive (e.g., random genetic drift).

Not only is it not circular, but it is the only way that the relationships between existing species on the planet make sense. Unless God was running low on supplies...


Evolution is based on circular reasoning and looking at the data with the conclusion already assumed.

The data do not support the theory. There is no way, that even with the supposed billions of years they postulate, that a process driven by mutations (of which maybe only 1 in a thousand is actually beneficial) can arrive at the extremely complex organisms with the highly intricate and involved systems which sustain them.

The smartest scientists can be fooled.
 
Wow...that's so horribly distorted, I don't know where to begin. Thankfully, the people who discovered most of the medical breakthroughs in use today did not believe as you did, otherwise, we'd still be dying of all sorts of diseases and maladies that are easily dealt with today, courtesy of studies that were done on systems that are related to the ones we possess....



You don't need 'evolution' to teach science-thus you are just confirming my point after years of evolution indoctrination #1 you BELIEVE that it is science and #2 it is somehow necessary in the scientific process. Which it is not. This is the reason why I quit trying to argue the creation versus evolution point: you will believe one religion over the other.

Human nature leans towards sin rather than God; more people want to believe evolution so they can use the 'I am just an animal anyway' excuse to be selfish. Ahhhh...sin nature will get you with vain imagination every time.

Too bad intelligent people can't see through the obvious facade-OH YEAH- the Bible calls that 'willful ignorance'.
 
You can have 'science' without evolution-if you are referring to 'micro-evolution' please state so because there are many different definitions of "evolution".

There is no PROOF you can provide that shows preaching evolution (our context here is 'macro-evolution' dealing with the "origin of earth/ species) is necessary to garner knowledge from what we observe in the natural world: AKA: science. Regardless of your religios beliefs.

Evolution is a religion-sorry if you don't like it.
 
The evolution of computer:

Once upon a time a mysterious force from somewhere at sometime we don't know made a thing we call electricity. Then one day a human discovered this strange force and began the process of trying to harness this mystical power. Many years later the KNOWLEDGE of electricity expanded and POOF the very first computer was born in the form of a switch. When the switch went up-a light came on, when the switch went down-the light when OFF! OOOOOOHHHHH to different observable states of electricity! Man's KNOWLEDGE of this force grew...

As time went on, the switch could be used not only to provide light when needed, but to communicate through a mystical code that required TIME and HUMAN INPUT at one end of wire to send a message to a human at the other end of the wire. We called this time the electricity was on or off its FREQUENCY.

One day HUMANS discovered that different materials had different insulating values for conducting electricity and the switch EVOLVED into a TRANSISTOR. Then by chance, the magical transistor met these other components that evolved called: CAPACITORS & RESISTORS. After mating, circuits were formed that could not only control devices but communicate information using a series 'data' created by 'on' and 'off' signals over a period of time (FREQUENCY).

Then POOF! The MICROPROCESSOR emerged from the component goo and it enabled humans to manipulate electricity to create images and text. Eventually, a toaster and a microwave mated and the PC adapted the microprocessor in it's circuits. Eventually the PC grew so large it overtook the phone lines and the rotary telephone became extinct because it could not compete for resources with the PC.

The PC bred so much it can now be found in most homes in industrialized countries...

Then the PC EVOLVED even more so that it adapted batteries and no longer needed it's vestigial organ the power cord and could be put in a humans pocket!
 
Christianity is a religion. Evolution is an organizing principle of science. Have all species evolved, including humans? Absolutely. It astounds me that there still exist people who don't believe that, after an unbelievable amount of evidence...not just in the fossil record, but in extant, living species!

You can stick your head in the sand and deny it, but why?


You can have 'science' without evolution-if you are referring to 'micro-evolution' please state so because there are many different definitions of "evolution".

There is no PROOF you can provide that shows preaching evolution (our context here is 'macro-evolution' dealing with the "origin of earth/ species) is necessary to garner knowledge from what we observe in the natural world: AKA: science. Regardless of your religios beliefs.

Evolution is a religion-sorry if you don't like it.
 
not even sure how this is relevant.

I don't remember reading anywhere in the bible about God running out of ideas on how to create new species. Did He decide to use 99% of the DNA of a bonobo in humans because he was fresh out of materials? Are there hox genes in so many living species because they were on sale during creation?

I think there are intelligent ways that one can combine faith with science. Denying evolution - not one of them.

The evolution of computer:

Once upon a time a mysterious force from somewhere at sometime we don't know made a thing we call electricity. Then one day a human discovered this strange force and began the process of trying to harness this mystical power. Many years later the KNOWLEDGE of electricity expanded and POOF the very first computer was born in the form of a switch. When the switch went up-a light came on, when the switch went down-the light when OFF! OOOOOOHHHHH to different observable states of electricity! Man's KNOWLEDGE of this force grew...

As time went on, the switch could be used not only to provide light when needed, but to communicate through a mystical code that required TIME and HUMAN INPUT at one end of wire to send a message to a human at the other end of the wire. We called this time the electricity was on or off its FREQUENCY.

One day HUMANS discovered that different materials had different insulating values for conducting electricity and the switch EVOLVED into a TRANSISTOR. Then by chance, the magical transistor met these other components that evolved called: CAPACITORS & RESISTORS. After mating, circuits were formed that could not only control devices but communicate information using a series 'data' created by 'on' and 'off' signals over a period of time (FREQUENCY).

Then POOF! The MICROPROCESSOR emerged from the component goo and it enabled humans to manipulate electricity to create images and text. Eventually, a toaster and a microwave mated and the PC adapted the microprocessor in it's circuits. Eventually the PC grew so large it overtook the phone lines and the rotary telephone became extinct because it could not compete for resources with the PC.

The PC bred so much it can now be found in most homes in industrialized countries...

Then the PC EVOLVED even more so that it adapted batteries and no longer needed it's vestigial organ the power cord and could be put in a humans pocket!
 
not even sure how this is relevant.

I don't remember reading anywhere in the bible about God running out of ideas on how to create new species. Did He decide to use 99% of the DNA of a bonobo in humans because he was fresh out of materials? Are there hox genes in so many living species because they were on sale during creation?

I think there are intelligent ways that one can combine faith with science. Denying evolution - not one of them.

This smacks of "flying spaghetti monster" reasoning. There are good reasons why God may have used similar building blocks in different species other than ridiculous ones such as lack of imagination or saving resources. One of which is that that consistency enables us to more easily pursue disciplines such as medicine and chemical engineering. This would be for our benefit; a condescencion, if you will, to our human limitations. Matter is comprised of the same basic particles and subatomic particles, does that suggest a dullness in Divine creativity?
 
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