Discussion in 'Biblical Advices' started by Beloved, Oct 8, 2009.
Katie, this one has probly been brought up already but you up for a challenge?
I'm sorry, Michael. I really don't know what you mean by that.
Oh i meant the topic of the thread .
i found some crazy contradictions in the past .
really kept me thinking for a while .
Did you look in the context?
Sure did . but some of them kept me thinking for about a week . fun stuff .
those synoptic mind twisters are just killer sometimes
Sure, together they weave the story from more than one perspective .
because Jesus as a three dimensional human being declared Himself "truth" (as opposed to two dimensional words on a page .)
reading the gospels as one might the old testament prophets would seem counter productive to the literary genre that "gospel" belongs to .
so since it is speaking of the same story based on the core details . but having different periphery details in some places . due to altering perspectives . this demonstrates that this story was meant to be read in an entirely different manner than what western rationalism would teach us to read anything .
when picking up an ancient book . it helps to read it like the original audience would have . generally . the issues being brought up today because of Europe's (and their colonies) monopoly on church culture for centuries . seems to be bringing up issues for the church now that the early church fathers didn't seem to even think about .
so it would stand to reason the manner in which we are looking at the bible (when looking for contradictions in the storyline) is problematic .. not so much the text itself .
You know what .... This is the best answer and should be considered above all else ... The Bible is the Word of God .... and Truth and light .... Therefore there are no contradictions cause God is Perfect and does not makes any mistakes . Everything is in His will right from the time of creation .
If people cannot grasp that then , I am really sorry for them . we need to put our complete trust and faith and belief in Him and watch how your life will change .... Mine did .
Why do people want to stir up things that are not truth . Those persons do not and have not studied like Pastor says the meanings of the words in Greek and also the time and place and the culture of the day .
We are studying Greek right now and my eyes have been opened to a lot of examples where our natural eye has translated but we need to use our spiritual eyes and then you will see differently .
I have to say once again .... There are no contradictions . Period . Thanks and God Bless .
I think the gospel story is designed this way . so people who are not focussed on what only the indwelling Christ would have them focus .. would be completely sidetracked by what does not matter .
Generally, the periphery detail appears to exist in the story order .
What version did you read from?
I read from the strongs numbers attached to the king james bible and picked the whole thing apart . it was fun .
(but admittedly, it doesn't matter which version you use with some of them . it's really laid out plainly, but in some translations .. entire verses disappear .. and then it's like .. oh well )
The whole key to decoding "contradictions" is opening the bible with the trust that God put the answer in there and will provide the answer as the book is opened .
so eventually the knot will be untied . just might take a while as His path is straight ,.. it's just my mind that is twisted .
I love your name! Very cool!
People who aren't of the Faith can only use carnal-type logic. Faith is foreign to them, and they need proof of something supernatural.
The next time someone says that to you, challenge them to do research; making sure to use online Greek translation and dictionary for the New Testament and Hebrew for the Old Testament before they give an opinion as fact. But don't be hard on them. Be gentle with them. If they do take that advise, it may be what starts them down the path to receive salvation.
God bless you, Beloved.
Amen Dusty. I agree with you on this. If there is something we cannot understand concerning this, we can just trust that one day the Lord will reveal it to us.
When the men of Babel first began to build a physical tower reaching up to heaven God showed his displeasure by confusing their linguistic means of understanding one another.
As in so many things this was mirrored in that Babel became Babylon the Great the beginning of which was foretold by Christ in Matthew 13:31-32.
Beginning with Constantine’s state adoption of Christianity ‘man’ once again began building a new tower (but this time ‘spiritual’) which by the 15th century had truly reached up to heaven in terms of its dominance.
So, in the form of the multi denominational “thus saith the Word of God” splintering of the Protestant reformation (the nesting of the birds of the air in the branches of what had become a great tree) God once again confused mans tower building; not with linguistic misunderstanding but this time with spiritual misunderstanding.
‘Thus says the Word of God’ versus ‘No it doesn’t it says thus’ versus ‘You’re all wrong, it says thus’
It worked in as much as there is no longer one dominant ‘spiritual’ tower reaching up to heaven, but rather a proliferation of smaller towers in the form of institutionalised denominations.
And that, together with the materialistic idolatry of capitalist emphasis, is now Babylon the Great out of which God’s people are called.
But called into what?
I say into circumspect deference to the darkened glass in the unity of tolerance rather than the various uniformities of assertive denominational theology.
So, back to the thread title..... why did God allow sufficient ambiguity in the Bible to spawn countless ‘thus saith the Word of God’ denominations?
Answer IMO……to confuse man’s presumptuous propensity to build ‘towers reaching up to heaven’.
Any contradictions in the bible relate to my own logical structure . and that's what needs to change .
Multitude of denominations seems to imply on a biblical level something wrong in the original premise . first there is a biblical theme on this . James speaks on it regarding Godly vs ungodly wisdom . but also if what was being preached "didn't work" for so many people who "also have the Holy Spirit" perhaps something is really wrong in the premise by which we think . perhaps the whole all or nothing ethic and the attitude by which it is expressed is at the core of it .
in the old world things that are contradictions to us actually just complimented each other as parallel and didn't have to be contradictions for example .
when reading a book from millennia ago . it is a good exercise to humble myself and realize . i have no idea what it was like to live back then regardless of how much research was done on their way of life by archaeologists .. i have yet to live a single moment in their world and understand a single verbiage of their speech and be able to analyze the intricate resonance of emotions that come from that one word or one sentence . the truth is . i cannot know exactly how the original audience would have read the bible . but the bible does give clues . and that's all i have to work with . but i must assume that the key to reading this text is not in the pattern of today's world and my mind must be completely transformed if i am to have a chance at getting and applying anything close to its deeper meanings .
all i know the apostles of Jesus formed a faith of diverse cultures and personalities and problems and they stayed one church for a long time . and that fruit does not exist today . by the fruit i will know the seed . so it is certain, nothing is wrong with the bible . the problem in lies in myself and the world i am living in . Together we are all guilty of trying to create a cultural centric interpretation of the bible . but that would be if there was any blame . God doesn't keep record of wrongs so it's all about what i/we do next . just because He's so awesome
I dunno, the contradictions between the Books of Kings and Chronicles didn't seem to matter .
i think the divide here is in understanding what truth is .
if you look at truth as raw data to be analysed .. yepp .. what are you talking about right?
but if you look at truth as a man Jesus Christ . then the gospels are looking at Him from four different perspectives . any perceived or actual contradictions show how wholly incapable we are of seeing Him completely until we are face to face .
Removed, I just dont know if this is the best thing to say right now.
Acts – 5:38, 39
1. Through the centuries, there have been always true believers in the whole world who have kept and preserved the Gospel in its originality, because they feared God, and because they appreciated very much the Gospel. When a person finds something precious he tries to keep it because it is precious to him."
2. The commandments - ‘do not still, do not kill, do not lie, and, other commandments of God, are written (coded) on the heart (consciousness) of every human being, even those living in the jungle, who have never seen civilization or the Bible. Moral laws can be created and come from a moral Being - God. Man did not create the ten commandments, because, if he did, he could change them as it suits him and, would not feel guilty for doing sin! The moral laws are independent from men.
3. The creation of man, the earth and the universe, display the wisdom, love, goodness, order, purpose, design, and the beauty of God, which he has placed in them!
The Bible is like a manual with instructions from God for us, to know where we came from, what to do on earth, and where we will go, in the future. It is like a person having a car, and manual with instructions. To have a car is not enough in order to know, how to drive or repair and maintain it. You can try and drive or repair your car without a manual, and may be succeed to some degree. But the manual gives you all the detailed instructions for everything you need to know about driving or repairing your car. It is similar with God, his creation and the Bible. We can know God and some of his attributes by just observing the creation, and the thing that he made. But the Bible gives us much more information about God, more than the creation gives us.
4. The miracles from God like speaking in tongues, healing and others, are another prove and confirmation from God, for the existence of God and that the Bible is true - (Hebrews 2:3,4, Acts 2:22, 14:3, 16:26-30, Mark 16:17, 20, John 2:11,23, 3:2, 4:48, 6:2, 10:25, 38, 11:45, 14:11, 20:30,31, Luke 10:13)! Some of the miracles, in the Old Testament, and which Jesus did, in the New Testament, were not to help or heal people, but only to show and prove, that God is real, and that His Word is real, and also, to show His glory, like the miracle of Jesus walking on the water, for example.
5. The Bible is a historical book, describing historical people and places, and proves itself, to be true!
6. There are many Christian (Church history) and secular, non Christian materials and books, written in the life time of Jesus and the Apostles, which speak about Jesus and the Apostles and the first Christians during the 1, 2, 3 and later centuries. Some of them are written by Roman historians, who saw Jesus or the Apostles, and wrote about them, even though, they themselves, were not Christians. For example the book - „Quo Vadis Domine.“ Also, the archives of the Roman emperors in the time of Jesus, describe the person of Jesus Christ.
7. The prophecies about Jesus and Israel in the O. Testament, and other prophecies in the Bible are fulfilled! In 1948 Israel was miraculously formed as a nation again! - Deuteronomy 28:64, Ezekiel 36:24, Isaiah 7:14, 9:6-7, 53:4-
8. There are much more documents (manuscripts) about the New Testament in the world, than they are for any other ancient literature! - Josh McDowell
9. The calendar, is another proof about the historical person of Jesus, because it starts, from the birth of Jesus.
10 . The conversion (born again experience) of even the toughest criminals, is the greatest miracle itself ( Nicky Cruz). Also, the immediate deliverance from God, of people who use drugs and are drug addicts, is another miracle.
11 . There is not a proof yet, that the Bible is not true. There have been many people through the history, which have tried to prove that the Bible is not true, but they could not, and some of them even have become Christians, while investigating the Bible.
12 . Archeology, also proves the accounts in the Bible.
13 . There are many famous scientists, and philosophers, that believe in God!
14 . The existence of the Jewish nation and its history, is a proof of the Bible.
15 . The Apostles according to history, were killed, because of their believe, that Jesus is God, and he rose from the dead. No body will die for a lie.
16 . Only twelve ordinary men, turned the whole Roman empire and the world upside down, and changed it, by the Gospel.
17 . The presence (the anointing) of God, and his power and love, is not just knowledge in the head, but it can be experienced and felt very realistically -(John 7:38, 39, Romans 8:16).
18. The Bible is made of many books which have been written in 1600 years period! It is written from about 50 authors, which were living on different continents and in different countries, and spoke different languages, and had different professions. But the whole Bible has one common point, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.
19. God cares for his Word, and has made sure, that trough all the centuries, his Word will be preserved and kept in its originality! Jeremiah 1:12, Isaiah 55:10
20. All living beings – plants, animals and humans, have something which is common to them all, like a blood system, respiratory system, nerve system, digestive system, which shows, that they came from the same source – God.
21. The fact that people from different races, can marry and have children, proves that people from all different races, came from the same source, or the same parents, Adam and Eve, otherwise, if they did not, they would not be able, to produce children.
22. Years ago, people did not believe that the earth was round, but that does not mean, that the earth is not round. Therefore, if some people, do not believe in God, or his miracles, it does not mean, that he does not exist or that there are no miracles. Today, there are many people who do not believe in speaking in tongues, or healing from God, even among Christians, but there are about 600 000 people globally, who speak in tongues, and there are thousands of people who are healed from God.
23. You can experience love, but you can not explain it. It is similar with God. You can get an experience from him, but you can not explain it. There are many things in this life, which can be experienced, but can not be explained. It does not mean, that they are not real.
24. When Jesus said that he is the Life (the life of God), he was really mad, or he really was, who he claimed to be, and there is no other option.
25. We can not see wind, but we can see its results, effects, and we can experience it. It is similar with God.
I agree with you Pastor Gary 100%.