Considerations Of Genesis 6:1-4

Status
Not open for further replies.
shaneh (translated years), in the Hebrew, simply means a division of time, and even can mean a lifetime...therefore maybe when it says Adam lived X amount of years (shaneh) that may have meant something very different to them than a 365 day solar year and maybe even not be referring to the 360 day lunar year they counted by after the flood. In fact even a "year" may have been a different length of time before the flood than after. But the point is, it could even have been a counting of months (new moons) or or seasons (whether 2 or 4 we cannot know)...

Just a thought...check out the language and see what you think (separate what it actually says from what you are taught it means)

Hello Brother Paul...

The first occurrence of the word 'year' is in Genesis where the lights in the firmament of heaven (the sun moon and stars) were to be for signs, seasons, and days, and years.

So, yes, in accordance with the definition you supplied, a year, or 'shaneh' is a division of time. This concept is used in describing the time frame of the rule of the man of sin in Daniel to be, 'a time,' (one year), 'times,' (plural, or two years), and a 'dividing of time,' (or 1/2 year).

This is all easily seen that this 3.5 year reign of the man of sin is also broken down and defined as '1260 days,' and '42 months.'

In another scripture, the word 'years' may be accounted for within a different framework of time, such as:

"I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient times."

Or the division may be accounted in the context of a thousand years being as one day.

Its not any different than many other words in any language that can mean different things dictated by the context in which they are used.

and even can mean a lifetime..

Yes, there are certain constructs that would use the word 'years' in defining a mans life, for example:

"And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years."

The years are then dictated by the heavenly bodies, not by mans decree. For example, I may say a year consists of 250 days, but eventually I will be faced with the reality that the heavenly bodies are not lining up with my opinion.

I would begin to have days starting at dusk, and be planting corn when its snowing.

There seems to be abundant proof that the entire civilized world had operated on a 360 day / year basis for many centuries. This also seems to be where we got our protractors that consist of 360 degrees.

It is indeed an amazing thing to realize that out of all the regulations given by Moses to govern the different appointed times, or feasts, of Israel, that he never instructed them to add any days at the end of the year. This would be impossible if the days were like they are now consisting of 365.24 days per year. Modern Judaism, along with the nations of the world have been forced to acknowledge this discrepancy and adjust their calendars accordingly. But the question is, why and when did this 'adjustment' become necessary?
 
Last edited:
That is another good point. As long as the phrase 'the sons of Seth' is used in the way it normally appears throughout scripture, then, as you say, it would not include Seth himself.

Only such a phrase never appears in the scriptures...I guess the point I made was that "men" in this statement IMO includes more than just Seth and his son Enos...which if true would include some genetically of Cain as well...

You know some people actually think Cain is the offspring of the serpent in physical lineage...wow!

Anyway, no argument here, just thought I would put it into the mix...in the Hebrew (the language God chose to say these things in) the lines are not as clearly drawn as is often assumed by many of us more influenced by the modern evangelical viewpoint. It changes nothing pertinent to our faith or our salvation in Christ...(thanks be to the Lord)...

In His love

Hello Brother Paul...

Yes, I was not clear in my wording. I acknowledge that the words 'the sons of Seth' are not in scripture.

I was using the phrase in a generic sense as an example of how the phrase 'the sons of [anybody]' would be used in scripture. Normally, it would not include the son without some additional verbiage to show he was included.

And yes, I am familiar with the "Serpent Seed" doctrine, and I agree ....Wow. When Jesus said to those Pharisees that they were of their father the devil, are we really to believe that the Devil had intercourse with their mommies? Hardly.

Blessings...
 
Forgive me, I've not read all the entries in this thread, but I believe the idea that evil men and good women came together to create giants isn't viable, they'd still be around. Also of all the events in history, Jesus chose the time of Lot and the time of Noah to reflect the evil that is to come in the last days. Evil has been around since Cain. So what's different about Lot and Noah, or better, what's in common? Genetics. Noah was perfect in his generations. No human born is without sin, save Jesus, so the meaning must imply genetics. In fact, the book of Jasher attests to this idea. It says that Noah wasn't going to have children knowing from Adam that God was going to destroy the land by water or fire. Lamech convinced him. As to Lot, they wanted "strange flesh" Jude 1:7 (KJV). It's clear they knew these "men" were not human, having had experience with demons. So if that is the meaning of Lot and Noah, and we know we are in the last days, what is happening today that could prove this way of thinking? Look at these articles in the news just this week:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/...nkeys-cut-and-paste-dna-alzheimers-parkinsons
http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddi...tically-altered-humans-could-begin-this-year/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25576718

In Noah's day:
Genesis 6:12 (KJV) And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

The word for corrupt here is decay, spoiled and it was all flesh, not just humans. Man is messing with God's work and it won't be for the better. Google the glow-in-the-dark pigs... China is suffering from plagues because of the genetically modified plants to make them resistant to bugs only to create superbugs resistant to pesticides. The US has a law that Monsanto cannot be sued. What is it that Monsanto does? They manufacture genetically modified foods. All flesh. A very perfect example of this is Spielberg's mini series Taken (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289830/?ref_=nm_flmg_prd_48) about aliens messing with human genetics to produce a human-alien hybrid, and then there's Katy Perry's song ET (http://www.songlyrics.com/katy-perry/e-t-featuring-kanye-west-lyrics) The except below is relevant, but if you don't believe me read it for your self in the link above, but be warned of foul language.
...
You're so hypnotizing
Could you be the devil
Could you be an angel

Your touch magnetizing
Feels like I am floating
Leaves my body glowing

They say be afraid
You're not like the others
Futuristic lover
Different DNA
They don't understand you

You're from a whole 'nother world
A different dimension
you open my eyes
And I'm ready to go
Lead me into the light
...

Boy, you're an alien
Your touch so foreign
It's supernatural
Extraterrestrial
...

Where would she get such an idea. Satan has been at war with God's creation since the garden. He's tried killing or corrupting the Seed since the prophecy of Genesis 3:15. Think of the generations that were never born because Able was killed as part of the devil's plan to thwart God's prophecy of His Seed. Then Moses. The tribe of Benjamin. The children of Bethlehem.

Society is being groomed for alien (demonic) invasion. Look at all the movies these days geared towards either making man stronger or better, being saved from extinction or flat out being invaded. The only aliens are demons. If you want more information on this read up on Douglas Hamp. (http://www.douglashamp.com) Revelation says Satan will be thrown to the earth and that demons will come out of the bottomless pit to attack men. The invasion is coming. Finally, the idea of zero ability for repentance is shown. God never sent anyone to the five cities of the plain (and Nineveh was the vilest of people and they got a preacher). Destroy every man woman and child in the land of Canaan, no chance of repentance. Why? The land was filled with giants. Sexual immorality cannot be the reason for these judgments else Paris, Sweden and California would have been destroyed long ago.

Just my 2 cents and something to think about :)
 
shaneh (translated years), in the Hebrew, simply means a division of time, and even can mean a lifetime...therefore maybe when it says Adam lived X amount of years (shaneh) that may have meant something very different to them than a 365 day solar year and maybe even not be referring to the 360 day lunar year they counted by after the flood. In fact even a "year" may have been a different length of time before the flood than after. But the point is, it could even have been a counting of months (new moons) or or seasons (whether 2 or 4 we cannot know)...

Just a thought...check out the language and see what you think (separate what it actually says from what you are taught it means)

Apologies ahead of time to Paul. Regarding the Book of Enoch - I went looking for my copy, among my books and couldn't find it, so I bought a 99 cent copy and read. I don't know why I thought I had read this book before because I don't think I ever have. (I picked Jared name for comparison of long years, at random, out of the bible, not realizing he was Enoch's father.) I think I would have remembered, if I had ever read it and can only thank God I was born after the resurrection to a mother who instilled great faith in me.
I don't see why exactly that book wasn't canonized but it is the only other biblical literature, that warns against changing the words, as put down in anyone's "language." It was written by Enoch to be passed down to his descendants and is very apocalyptic. In the middle of the book, there is a very long section on how a calendar is made with a 365 day year. Enoch says an angel instructed him. The argument of using a different calender than what we know can be thrown out.
 
Last edited:
Hello Brother Paul...

The first occurrence of the word 'year' is in Genesis where the lights in the firmament of heaven (the sun moon and stars) were to be for signs, seasons, and days, and years.

So, yes, in accordance with the definition you supplied, a year, or 'shaneh' is a division of time. This concept is used in describing the time frame of the rule of the man of sin in Daniel to be, 'a time,' (one year), 'times,' (plural, or two years), and a 'dividing of time,' (or 1/2 year).

This is all easily seen that this 3.5 year reign of the man of sin is also broken down and defined as '1260 days,' and '42 months.'

In another scripture, the word 'years' may be accounted for within a different framework of time, such as:

"I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient times."

Or the division may be accounted in the context of a thousand years being as one day.

Its not any different than many other words in any language that can mean different things dictated by the context in which they are used.



Yes, there are certain constructs that would use the word 'years' in defining a mans life, for example:

"And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years."

The years are then dictated by the heavenly bodies, not by mans decree. For example, I may say a year consists of 250 days, but eventually I will be faced with the reality that the heavenly bodies are not lining up with my opinion.

I would begin to have days starting at dusk, and be planting corn when its snowing.

There seems to be abundant proof that the entire civilized world had operated on a 360 day / year basis for many centuries. This also seems to be where we got our protractors that consist of 360 degrees.

It is indeed an amazing thing to realize that out of all the regulations given by Moses to govern the different appointed times, or feasts, of Israel, that he never instructed them to add any days at the end of the year. This would be impossible if the days were like they are now consisting of 365.24 days per year. Modern Judaism, along with the nations of the world have been forced to acknowledge this discrepancy and adjust their calendars accordingly. But the question is, why and when did this 'adjustment' become necessary?

Interesting OneHope...I can tell you are a good student (as I also try to be)...they mentioned Enoch earlier and what is strange is the not only the Qumran priests but also in Enoch it mentions a 365 day year and oddly the time in years of Enoch's life is 365 years...so I believe the early Jews (and probably the Israelites as a culture) knew of both reckonings (but that is of course mere speculation)...the adjustment as you call it came early on...other cultures using the Lunar to guide the planting and harvesting added a month or so every so many years to adjust the calendar to fit the seasons. But the point is that it is possible the counting was different before the flood...one of the Chinese flood accounts (that of Ya-hu) has their Noah figure describing how when they left the boat the Sun's rising and setting were reversed...Vielokovsky in Worlds in Collision accredits this to an earth shift (I know non-Biblical) which we have found other evidence for on the ocean floors (a reversal of the magnetic envelope)...could God have caused or used this in the breaking up of the deep?

Just more off topic conversation I suppose but if the term shaneh back then was used for months instead of solar years then all those then lived into their 70s and 80s by our standards...(I have said this but I still hold to the long life view)

brother Paul
 
Apologies ahead of time to Paul. Regarding the Book of Enoch - I went looking for my copy, among my books and couldn't find it, so I bought a 99 cent copy and read. I don't know why I thought I had read this book before because I don't think I ever have. (I picked Jared name for comparison of long years, at random, out of the bible, not realizing he was Enoch's father.) I think I would have remembered, if I had ever read it and can only thank God I was born after the resurrection to a mother who instilled great faith in me.
I don't see why exactly that book wasn't canonized but it is the only other biblical literature, that warns against changing the words, as put down in anyone's "language." It was written by Enoch to be passed down to his descendants and is very apocalyptic. In the middle of the book, there is a very long section on how a calendar is made with a 365 day year. Enoch says an angel instructed him. The argument of using a different calender than what we know can be thrown out.

First Silk, I loved reading the book of Enoch (the Slavonic Enoch is made up trash that goes with the Books of Adam and Eve...Apocryphal fiction at best, the devils tool to throw some off at worst) and only know it was not found in any of the earliest Tanakh listings and never quoted before Jude (which even the church did not accept for over three centuries...its true!). yes Enoch mentions this but the question is still "Was this calendar even known to the pre-flood people and was the revolution around the Sun the same length of time before the flood?" We cannot know for sure...

Ever read R. H. Charles's translation of Jubilees? And yes Enoch was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls...as were the highly prophetic Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs...and more...

This is similar to the use of the word "day" in Genesis 1, before there was a Sun for the earth to rotate in relation to (days 1 though 3) and because Yom is exactly one of these words defined by its context, who can say positively that days 1 through three were not "days unto the Lord" (1,000 or more years each...)....our Father is the owner of the cattle of 1,000 hills (what not all the hills?)...
 
they mentioned Enoch earlier and what is strange is the not only the Qumran priests but also in Enoch it mentions a 365 day year and oddly the time in years of Enoch's life is 365 years...so I believe the early Jews (and probably the Israelites as a culture) knew of both reckonings (but that is of course mere speculation)

Hello Paul-

The Book of Enoch postulates a 364 day year, and states this would never change unto all eternity...

Enoch 74:12- And the sun and the stars bring in all the years exactly, so that they do not advance or delay their position by a single day unto eternity; but complete the years with perfect justice in 364 days. In 3 years there are 1,092 days, and in 5 years 1,820 days, so that in 8 years there are 2,912 days.

He does the math and hypothecates it out to 8 years....exactly 364 days per year with no additions or subtractions.

He said it would never change a single day unto all eternity, yet Vielokovsky has quotes from diverse ancient civilizations that show a change, not from a 364 day year to a 365 day year, but from a 360 day year to a 365 day year, so the Book of Enoch would be inaccurate on either side.

Here are a few quotes from "Worlds in Collision" attesting to the ancient calendar change:


1) “Numerous evidences are preserved which prove that prior to the year of 365 ¼ days, the year was only 360 days long” (p.330).

2) “The texts of the Veda period know a year of only 360 days.”

3) “This Hindu year of 360 days is divided into twelve months of thirty days each. The texts describe the moon as crescent for fifteen days and waning for another fifteen days; they also say that the sun moved for six months or 180 days to the north and for the same number of days to the south” (p.331).

4) “The ancient Persian year was composed of 360 days or twelve months of thirty days each. In the seventh century [B.C.] five Gatha days were added to the calendar,” (p.332).

5) “A relic of the system of 360 days is the still persisting division of the sphere into 360 degrees; each degree represented the diurnal advance of the earth on its orbit, or that portion of the zodiac which was passed over from one night to the next. After 360 changes the stellar sky returned to the same position for the observer on the earth” (p.340).

Are we really to think that all these different cultures had the same erroneous calendar of 360 days, and no one seemed to realize it? And are we to also think that all these same cultures had decided independent of each other that they should add the same 5 days to their existing calendar?

Although Vielokovsky does quote the day that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, the time frame for that occurrence would not correlate with when this universal calendar change took place, as the time of Joshua is thought to be about 1646-1616 BC, and the change occured around the 800-700 BC era.

Which places the miracle more towards the time of the miracle of God bringing back the sundial in the days of Hezekiah. Some think this 10 degree backward movement affected the course of the planets bringing us into the current 365 day / year period we now have.

Blessings....


 
Brother Paul, Gary - I meant to change the 365 to 364 but went off to google dead sea scrolls - enoch and by the time I was done, it was too late to edit. The dead sea scrolls date to at least the time of Jesus and I would speculate, it was considered canon in that time (unlike the Book of Esther). I'm not familiar with the Twelve Patriarchs but will look it up. Aren't the scrolls the earliest manuscripts we have? I was apologizing for keep bringing up Enoch but actually it is not totally opposed to your OP. Up until my last night reading, I thought Revelation was the only book warning not to change the language of what "Enoch" and some writing by his son, Methusaleh did. Altho, there is some question as to which "John" wrote Rev., It's not in contention that a John wrote it. There is some current speculation today, that the poles changed, causing the flood - I am unsure how that might effect time. I admit my eyes started to cross reading about lunar and solar gates but still surprised that Enoch seemed to know how astronomy, combined with the counting of time, that early in mankind's history. I can see why Ancient Alien theorists like that book so much. (Hey Abdicate ;)). I go with the long ages of the Patriarch's for reasons I stated before. I think the fact that no one really believes the big ages has caused the not realizing that all the early Patriarchs were living at the same time - it makes a big difference. Just imagine if you could talk to Adam!
And I agree that there are big holes in OT scripture, particulary in Genesis but I love this thread!:LOL: And I'm learning alot.
 
Abdicate - I have repeating dreams of "aliens" from another dimension, claiming "they" really created mankind, and come to the planet to enslave. And we are rounded up in pens. I feel totally stupid, tho, when I wake up. But it is off the OP :)
 
We only have one scripture that might possibly suggest Angels produced children with humans. No other scripture makes this suggestion. We don't take one scripture and make a doctrine out of it. Peter already told us by the Holy Spirit not to do this.

If it was important more would have been given.
 
Chapter 72:37 of the Book of Enoch purports to compare the brightness and size of the sun with that of the moon.

As he (sun) rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal. (Charles)

And thus it (Sun) goes in and out, neither slackening nor resting; but running on in its chariot by day and by night. It shines with a seventh portion of light from the moon; (?) but the dimensions of both are equal. (Laurence)

And thus he (Sun) ascends and descends, and is not diminished, and does not rest, but runs day and night in his chariot, and his light shines seven times stronger than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal. (Schodde)

In the translation from Laurence it states that the Sun shines with a seventh portion of light from the moon...how would the sun shine with a seventh portion of light from the moon?

In all three translations it states that the size of the moon and the sun are both equal, and the other two translations show the sun is seven times brighter than the moon.

Is the sun only 7 times brighter than the moon?

The sun is 343,558 times brighter than the brightest full moon. Enoch’s figure is
a mere 7, ridiculously dim by a factor of almost 50,000. Similar calculations show
that the sun is 398,107 times brighter than the average full moon.
(someone else figured this out)

Is the sun and the moon the same size?

NASA publishes solar and lunar volumes in
cubic kilometers at 1.4122x1018 and 2.1958x1010. Simple division reveals that
the sun is 64,314,000 times larger than the moon.
( I also didn't figure this one out)

The size of the sun and moon might be rationalized as to appear to be the same size from our perspective here on earth, however....The Book of Enoch states that he (Enoch) was taken to be with the angels and had the secrets of the universe revealed to him.

Enoch 71:3-5

And the angel Michael [one of the archangels] seized me by my right hand, And lifted me up and led me forth into all the secrets, And he showed me all the secrets of righteousness. And he showed me all the secrets of the ends of the heaven, And all the chambers of all the stars, and all the luminaries, Whence they proceed before the face of the holy ones. And he translated my spirit into the heaven of heavens...

He later describes what he was shown...Enoch 71: 1-2

The book of the courses of the luminaries of the heaven, the relations of each, according to their classes, their dominion and their seasons, according to their names and places of origin, and according to their months, which Uriel, the holy angel, who was with me, who is their guide, showed me; and he showed me all their laws exactly as they are, and how it is with regard to all the years of the world and unto eternity, till the new creation is accomplished which dureth till eternity.

If he was really taken up and shown everything exactly as it is, then why are things not exactly as he said?

Blessings.....
 
Chapter 72:37 of the Book of Enoch purports to compare the brightness and size of the sun with that of the moon.

As he (sun) rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal. (Charles)

And thus it (Sun) goes in and out, neither slackening nor resting; but running on in its chariot by day and by night. It shines with a seventh portion of light from the moon; (?) but the dimensions of both are equal. (Laurence)

And thus he (Sun) ascends and descends, and is not diminished, and does not rest, but runs day and night in his chariot, and his light shines seven times stronger than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal. (Schodde)

In the translation from Laurence it states that the Sun shines with a seventh portion of light from the moon...how would the sun shine with a seventh portion of light from the moon?

In all three translations it states that the size of the moon and the sun are both equal, and the other two translations show the sun is seven times brighter than the moon.

Is the sun only 7 times brighter than the moon?

The sun is 343,558 times brighter than the brightest full moon. Enoch’s figure is
a mere 7, ridiculously dim by a factor of almost 50,000. Similar calculations show
that the sun is 398,107 times brighter than the average full moon.
(someone else figured this out)

Is the sun and the moon the same size?

NASA publishes solar and lunar volumes in
cubic kilometers at 1.4122x1018 and 2.1958x1010. Simple division reveals that
the sun is 64,314,000 times larger than the moon.
( I also didn't figure this one out)

The size of the sun and moon might be rationalized as to appear to be the same size from our perspective here on earth, however....The Book of Enoch states that he (Enoch) was taken to be with the angels and had the secrets of the universe revealed to him.

Enoch 71:3-5

And the angel Michael [one of the archangels] seized me by my right hand, And lifted me up and led me forth into all the secrets, And he showed me all the secrets of righteousness. And he showed me all the secrets of the ends of the heaven, And all the chambers of all the stars, and all the luminaries, Whence they proceed before the face of the holy ones. And he translated my spirit into the heaven of heavens...

He later describes what he was shown...Enoch 71: 1-2

The book of the courses of the luminaries of the heaven, the relations of each, according to their classes, their dominion and their seasons, according to their names and places of origin, and according to their months, which Uriel, the holy angel, who was with me, who is their guide, showed me; and he showed me all their laws exactly as they are, and how it is with regard to all the years of the world and unto eternity, till the new creation is accomplished which dureth till eternity.

If he was really taken up and shown everything exactly as it is, then why are things not exactly as he said?

Blessings.....

Rofl - yeah I wasn't buying the sizes and brightness - nor was I speaking to that, particularly - I assumed his "instructor" was telling him on a level with his understanding, how tracking the sun and moon movements thru a division of time, would make an accurate (nearly) calendar. He acknowledges, if I remember correctly, this was a vision? When to plant - when to reap per the regular motions of the stars. I will go back to re-read that portion again as well as the shephard sequence. At one point, Enoch states that all the cattle come back (after they are slain?) and yet, he goes on to say the unrighteous will spiritually perish. I wasn't reflecting towards what he said as scientifically valid for what we know today (?) Only that he manages to come up with a workable system from some bizarro ideas. But I did say *I went cross-eyed reading the solar-lunar gates and the meterological report of where winds come from. And I found it strange that he found that thunder and lighting, while often occurring at the same time were two separate functions. Enoch may well have thought he was told everything but is that likely? He does often come strangely close to prophesy in regard to Christ 1st and 2nd coming and obviously the flood. I will have to read it again, because there were all kinds of things that troubled me and that I couldn't get an immediate fix on.
 
I read somewhere that the authors of the book of Enoch were four. You can see the style of writing change so it's more likely someone copied what Enoch said and it got passed down and then someone combined the different works into one. As to the length of a year, the Scripture bare out that before the flood the length was 360 days and after more, which would make sense.

For example, there is ample information showing that a year used to be 360 days long and that it will become 360-day year in the last days. I know that this sentence may be hard to swallow, but if you do a little research into this fact, according to scripture, you’ll find that there are ancient, world-wide, known facts to support this. I have to point out that even though there is strong historical and mathematical evidence, not including Scriptures, the scientific community largely dismisses this information as myth or mathematical ignorance. I find this incredibly arrogant. Think of it this way: when scientists dismiss information because it doesn’t fit their dogma, then it’s like those that deny the Holocaust happened. Because these events have not been “observed” today, they cannot reconcile ancient observable data when it contradicts the current planetary orbital data. This sound like double talk so let’s delve into Scripture and then into the evidence according to some extra-biblical information.

Let’s start with Noah and the flood – not what year, but how many days – because scripture tells us the number of days.

Flood begins Gen 7:11 Heshvan 17 (0 – Start counting)
Rains Ended Gen 7:12 Kislev 27 (40 days)
Ark Rested Gen 8:4 Nisan 17 (148 or 147 days by modern calendar)
Ark prevailed 150 days Gen 7:24; 8:3

*Heshvan is the second month since the first month started in Tishri. Nisan wasn’t made the first month until after the Exodus.

Genesis 8:3 “And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.”

If you count using today’s Hebrew calendar, you’ll find that the 150 days turn into 147 or 148 days. This is because the modern calendar contains a fix to accommodate the rules for feast days and Sabbaths and to synchronize to a solar year by adding the 5.25 days. From Heshvan 17 to Nisan 17, according to scripture, is 150 days. This is not the case in the Hebrew calendar used today. To prove scripture correct, you must assume that a year was 360 days, divided into twelve 30-day months. Assuming that from the second month (Heshvan) to the seventh month (Nisan) contains 30 days each, you get (7-2) * 30 = 150 days. What happened to make this change? Scripture answers the question:

Psalms 82:5 “They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.”

Before the flood, there was no hint of rain or snow and that the land was watered by the mist that came up from the ground.

Genesis 2:5-6 “…for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth…But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.”

When the flood started, it didn’t just rain, “… the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up…” (Genesis 7:11), hinting that the earth also suffered great tectonic stresses. Imagine the earth was relatively smooth across the planet. In fact, the words “hill” and “mountain” are never mentioned prior to the flood. If there were an expansion of the surface of the earth due to these stresses, massive cracks would appear allowing the tectonic plates to form and slam into each other. Think of it this way. You bury your hand up to your wrist into the sand on the beach. You make it nice and smooth and then you move your fingers a little bit – cracks form and small “valleys” and “hills” develop. How would the earth expand?

Judges contain this odd verse:

Judges 5:20 “They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.”

Sisera was the captain of the army of Jabin, king of Cannan. Israel had fought for the land and again Sisera. But why would the stars fight a man on earth? The answer in a moment.

There is another reference in scripture to a 180-day feast that Ahasuerus gave.

Esther 1:4 “When he shewed the riches of his glorious kingdom and the honour of his excellent majesty many days, even an hundred and fourscore days.”

John Gill states:

“The Persian feasts were very long, large, and sumptuous. Dr. Frye2 says, this custom of keeping an annual feast one hundred and eighty days still continues in Persia. Cheus3, a Chinese emperor, used frequently to make a feast which lasted one hundred and twenty days; though it cannot be well thought that the same individual persons here were feasted so long, but, when one company was sufficiently treated, they removed and made way for another; and so it continued successively such a number of days as here related, which was six months, or half a year; a year then in use consisting of three hundred and sixty days, as was common with the Jews, and other nations, and so the Persians4.”

2. Travels, p. 348. apud Patrick in loc.
3. In Martin. Sinic. Hist. l. 3. p. 78.
4. Prideaux's Connect. par. 1. p. 197.


The Real War of the Worlds

In an online book called “Recovering the Lost World” (2010), the author Jno Cook explains that all the ancient literature, mythologies, and legends speak the same story worldwide: that the moon, Saturn, and Mars were once much closer to the earth; enough to cause horrific chaos, including the biblical account of the Flood. As outlandish as it sounds, this would explain almost every question about ancient calendars and why they changed worldwide twice between 720 BC and 685 BC. It was during this time that the axis of the earth shifted enough to turn the land of “milk and honey” into baron rock and dust over time – “climate change”! Al Gore would be proud.

According to a book called "The Mars-Earth Wars" (1996) Mars had five “flybys” so close to the earth that it was the cause of the flood, shortening the length of the lunar month to 29.5 days, and lengthening the solar year to 365.25 days. I cannot refute their claims, but it does provide an understanding to how the length of time in Scriptures of old were different than today. Immanuel Velikovsky wrote in “Worlds in Collision” that the old Babylonian, Assyrian, Persian, Egyptian, Chinese, Roman (during the time of Romulus), Hindu, and Mayan calendars contained twelve 30-day months. This fact eludes scientists today because they refuse to look at these ancient writings as true accounts and dismiss them as sloppy mathematics. Even an astounding, well-known book describes Mars’ moons (which are far too small to see with the naked eye – today that is). Gulliver's Travels, written in 1726 by Jonathan Swift, in the “Voyage to Laputa”, the astronomers discover two moons of Mars. Today, scientists credit the discovery of the moons of Mars to Asaph Hall, who discovered them in 1877, 150 year after the writings of Jonathan Swift. Because Jonathan Swift’s book is indeed fiction, they chalk it up to coincidence. However, the names were given Phobos meaning panic/fear and Deimos meaning terror/dread that, according to Greek mythology, traveled with their father Ares (Mars), the god of war, into battle. How did the ancient Greeks know what Jonathan Swift knew? All over the world, the legends, stories, and myths, depict Mars are being fearful and evil. According to these books, the closer Mars would get to the earth on its flybys, huge earthquakes would occur and massive lightning strikes between the two planets would occur. Everyone on the planet would certainly witness this kind of event. The stories, naming, and visibility of Mars’ moons were chronicled.

As shown in Psalms 82:5, the foundations of the earth are out of their courses. Because of the sins of man, God changed His perfect dance of the earth, moon, and sun into chaos for a while. He did changed it again for Hezekiah and Joshua by making the shadow on the sun dial go back ten degrees and hold the sun and the moon in place for the length of almost a day, respectively. Science cannot explain this because they reject the notion that the current placement of our solar system wasn’t always so.

Even during Jesus’ crucifixion something occurred. The “eclipse” could not have been the moon because the moon is full during Passover, which means that the earth is between the moon and the sun. So what caused the darkness?

Matthew 27:45 “Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.”

It is my belief that the darkness was God. When He visited Abram it was in a horror of great darkness and God spoke to Moses from a thick darkness.

Genesis 15:12And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.”

Deuteronomy 5:22These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.”

God has promised that all the chaos would return in the last days. Here are a few verses:

Isaiah 13:9-13 “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.”

Joel 2:30-31 “And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.”

Luke 21:25-26 “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.”

Revelation 8:12 “And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.”

Now if you read this last verse carefully, you’ll notice that the only way to have the sun, moon, stars, night and day shine a third less, would be if the earth’s rotation increased by eight hours. Therefore, a day would no longer be 24 hours, but 18 hours long. So horrific will the last days be that Jesus Himself states:

Matthew 24:22 “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”

If you do your own homework, you’ll come across an idea that Hezekiah was the first to increase the calendar, but if you read Scripture, Hezekiah repaired that Temple and called Israel and Judah to repent. This happened in Nisan and they did not finish sanctifying the House of the Lord nor themselves until the sixteenth of Nisan – after the date they should have had the Passover. Not having kept the Passover for so long, Hezekiah calls all of Israel and Judah to come to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover in the second month, the month Iyyar. So many people came that they had to enlist the help of the non-priest Levites to help with the sacrifices. They kept the Feast of Unleavened Bread for seven days and when it was finished, asked to keep an additional seven days with great joy. Many claim that this is proof that the calendar changed. I do not believe this to be true because the changing of the sun’s shadow didn’t happen until many years later. Sadly, there is a lot of open debate on this topic in the Talmud (Tractate Sanhedrin), but that is because they choose their oral traditions over Scripture, or more accurately, their traditions blind them. I just want to point out that this story shows that though God commands men to keep His word, He is flexible and forgiving when it comes to the matter of the heart; whether it be humbled and repentant or not. (II Chronicles 29-32; II Kings 18-20; Isaiah 36)

Finally, Scripture implies that the calendar will revert to a 360-day year again. Daniel prophesied that when the antichrist desolates the temple, 1290 days would pass before the end. Daniel 12:7 and John in Revelation 12:14 speak of time, times, and half a time. Revelation 11:2 and 13:5 speak about the passage of 42 months before the end. Revelation 11:3 says the two prophets will preach for 1260 days, and in 12:6, the “woman”, i.e. Israel, would be carried away and protected for 1260 days. If a “time” is a year, then a “time, times and half a time” would be 3.5 years. 1260 days is exactly 3.5 years in a 360-day year, as is 42 months containing 30-day months! But Daniel says from the desolation to the end is 1290 days. If you count from 1 Nisan 3.5 years you get 1 Tishri, the day I believe Jesus will return to begin His reign on earth, at the Feast of Trumpets!

Just my 2 cents again :)
 
Apologies ahead of time to Paul. Regarding the Book of Enoch - I went looking for my copy, among my books and couldn't find it, so I bought a 99 cent copy and read. I don't know why I thought I had read this book before because I don't think I ever have. (I picked Jared name for comparison of long years, at random, out of the bible, not realizing he was Enoch's father.) I think I would have remembered, if I had ever read it and can only thank God I was born after the resurrection to a mother who instilled great faith in me.
I don't see why exactly that book wasn't canonized but it is the only other biblical literature, that warns against changing the words, as put down in anyone's "language." It was written by Enoch to be passed down to his descendants and is very apocalyptic. In the middle of the book, there is a very long section on how a calendar is made with a 365 day year. Enoch says an angel instructed him. The argument of using a different calender than what we know can be thrown out.

Silk. Allow me to give you a few reasons why Enoch is not included in the Bible and it reallly applies to all the Apocrapha books as well. The very 1st reason is that it is so contrary to the Word of God. Then when you read it you can see it is flawed Biblically and is and copy some obvious flaws from it.
The book of enoch says:
1) we shall not have pride in heaven
And then there shall be bestowed upon the elect wisdom,
And they shall all live and never again sin,
Either through ungodliness or through pride:
But they who are wise shall be humble.
(but yet satan had pride, apparently)

2)There are just two angels mentioned in the bible and 200 in enoch.
3) Jesus never quoted anything from enoch.

4) The angels are supposed to take supplications from earth to god.
'The earth made without inhabitant cries the voice of their cryingst up to the gates of heaven. And now to you, the holy ones of heaven, the souls of men make their suit, saying, "Bring our cause before the Most High".
(These are the dead speaking) (We know We ourselves make supplication to god and our mediator is Christ Jesus)
4) The dead cry to heaven.
"And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are wrought on the earth."
(This heresy is repeated)

5)Length of days is incorrect.
"For length of days shall they not have. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.
(This is after the flood)

6)An angel is covered with rocks so that he not see light
"Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. "
(This is an angel, a spirit, intangible spirit and rocks are goingcover him? Do we want to accpt that as truth)

These are only a few of many and it would behove all who want to believe the Apocrapha, that it was rejected a long, long time ago for very good and specfic reasons. Time has not made those books acceptable.
 
We only have one scripture that might possibly suggest Angels produced children with humans. No other scripture makes this suggestion. We don't take one scripture and make a doctrine out of it. Peter already told us by the Holy Spirit not to do this.

If it was important more would have been given.

One Scripture, the MIGHT POSSIBLY suggest Angels mated with female humans.

I understand what you are sysaying Mike, and with all love and respect, I for one reject even that one.

It is romantic to think that we can relatives who were demons, but IMHO that is not reality.
 
One Scripture, the MIGHT POSSIBLY suggest Angels mated with female humans.

I understand what you are sysaying Mike, and with all love and respect, I for one reject even that one.

It is romantic to think that we can relatives who were demons, but IMHO that is not reality.

Thank you Major. As you already have talked with me, I need another witness in scripture to say something that is true and I don't need 10 others saying I am misunderstanding what I think the other two are saying. I don't take one, and discount the 10. I try to avoid mans doctrine and ideas of God as much as possible and need something called scripture.

As for the giants?? The Angels kept not their first estate does not say the angels had sex with humans. There is lots of straw grasping and junk science the foolish look into to prove something we have no scriptural evidence on.

Even if that one scripture meant that angels had sex with humans and made children that were giants, then all them giants were drowned long ago anyway, still making it a non issues.

Peter talked about the flood and about God's judgement once and how there will be judgement again. Peter never mentioned no giants and would have if there was any validity in the theory.

Major: why not? It's in the scriptures and common knowledge until the "enlightened period".

Its not in Scriptures............ what are you talking about?


Blessings.
 
I read somewhere that the authors of the book of Enoch were four. You can see the style of writing change so it's more likely someone copied what Enoch said and it got passed down and then someone combined the different works into one. As to the length of a year, the Scripture bare out that before the flood the length was 360 days and after more, which would make sense.

For example, there is ample information showing that a year used to be 360 days long and that it will become 360-day year in the last days. I know that this sentence may be hard to swallow, but if you do a little research into this fact, according to scripture, you’ll find that there are ancient, world-wide, known facts to support this. I have to point out that even though there is strong historical and mathematical evidence, not including Scriptures, the scientific community largely dismisses this information as myth or mathematical ignorance. I find this incredibly arrogant. Think of it this way: when scientists dismiss information because it doesn’t fit their dogma, then it’s like those that deny the Holocaust happened. Because these events have not been “observed” today, they cannot reconcile ancient observable data when it contradicts the current planetary orbital data. This sound like double talk so let’s delve into Scripture and then into the evidence according to some extra-biblical information.

Let’s start with Noah and the flood – not what year, but how many days – because scripture tells us the number of days.

Flood begins Gen 7:11 Heshvan 17 (0 – Start counting)
Rains Ended Gen 7:12 Kislev 27 (40 days)
Ark Rested GGen 8:4nbsp; Nisan 17 (148 or 147 days by modern calendar)
Ark prevailed 150 days Gen 7:24; 8:3

*Heshvan is the second month since the first month started in Tishri. Nisan wasn’t made the first month until after the Exodus.

Genesis 8:3 “And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.”

If you count using today’s Hebrew calendar, you’ll find that the 150 days turn into 147 or 148 days. This is because the modern calendar contains a fix to accommodate the rules for feast days and Sabbaths and to synchronize to a solar year by adding the 5.25 days. From Heshvan 17 to Nisan 17, according to scripture, is 150 days. This is not the case in the Hebrew calendar used today. To prove scripture correct, you must assume that a year was 360 days, divided into twelve 30-day months. Assuming that from the second month (Heshvan) to the seventh month (Nisan) contains 30 days each, you get (7-2) * 30 = 150 days. What happened to make this change? Scripture answers the question:

Psalms 82:5 “They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.”

Before the flood, there was no hint of rain or snow and that the land was watered by the mist that came up from the ground.

Genesis 2:5-6 “…for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth…But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.”

When the flood started, it didn’t just rain, “… the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up…” (Genesis 7:11), hinting that the earth also suffered great tectonic stresses. Imagine the earth was relatively smooth across the planet. In fact, the words “hill” and “mountain” are never mentioned prior to the flood. If there were an expansion of the surface of the earth due to these stresses, massive cracks would appear allowing the tectonic plates to form and slam into each other. Think of it this way. You bury your hand up to your wrist into the sand on the beach. You make it nice and smooth and then you move your fingers a little bit – cracks form and small “valleys” and “hills” develop. How would the earth expand?

Judges contain this odd verse:

Judges 5:20 “They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.”

Sisera was the captain of the army of Jabin, king of Cannan. Israel had fought for the land and again Sisera. But why would the stars fight a man on earth? The answer in a moment.

There is another reference in scripture to a 180-day feast that Ahasuerus gave.

Esther 1:4 “When he shewed the riches of his glorious kingdom and the honour of his excellent majesty many days, even an hundred and fourscore days.”

John Gill states:

“The Persian feasts were very long, large, and sumptuous. Dr. Frye2 says, this custom of keeping an annual feast one hundred and eighty days still continues in Persia. Cheus3, a Chinese emperor, used frequently to make a feast which lasted one hundred and twenty days; though it cannot be well thought that the same individual persons here were feasted so long, but, when one company was sufficiently treated, they removed and made way for another; and so it continued successively such a number of days as here related, which was six months, or half a year; a year then in use consisting of three hundred and sixty days, as was common with the Jews, and other nations, and so the Persians4.”

2. Travels, p. 348. apud Patrick in loc.
3. In Martin. Sinic. Hist. l. 3. p. 78.
4. Prideaux's Connect. par. 1. p. 197.


The Real War of the Worlds

In an online book called “Recovering the Lost World” (2010), the author Jno Cook explains that all the ancient literature, mythologies, and legends speak the same story worldwide: that the moon, Saturn, and Mars were once much closer to the earth; enough to cause horrific chaos, including the biblical account of the Flood. As outlandish as it sounds, this would explain almost every question about ancient calendars and why they changed worldwide twice between 720 BC and 685 BC. It was during this time that the axis of the earth shifted enough to turn the land of “milk and honey” into baron rock and dust over time – “climate change”! Al Gore would be proud.

According to a book called "The Mars-Earth Wars" (1996) Mars had five “flybys” so close to the earth that it was the cause of the flood, shortening the length of the lunar month to 29.5 days, and lengthening the solar year to 365.25 days. I cannot refute their claims, but it does provide an understanding to how the length of time in Scriptures of old were different than today. Immanuel Velikovsky wrote in “Worlds in Collision” that the old Babylonian, Assyrian, Persian, Egyptian, Chinese, Roman (during the time of Romulus), Hindu, and Mayan calendars contained twelve 30-day months. This fact eludes scientists today because they refuse to look at these ancient writings as true accounts and dismiss them as sloppy mathematics. Even an astounding, well-known book describes Mars’ moons (which are far too small to see with the naked eye – today that is). Gulliver's Travels, written in 1726 by Jonathan Swift, in the “Voyage to Laputa”, the astronomers discover two moons of Mars. Today, scientists credit the discovery of the moons of Mars to Asaph Hall, who discovered them in 1877, 150 year after the writings of Jonathan Swift. Because Jonathan Swift’s book is indeed fiction, they chalk it up to coincidence. However, the names were given Phobos meaning panic/fear and Deimos meaning terror/dread that, according to Greek mythology, traveled with their father Ares (Mars), the god of war, into battle. How did the ancient Greeks know what Jonathan Swift knew? All over the world, the legends, stories, and myths, depict Mars are being fearful and evil. According to these books, the closer Mars would get to the earth on its flybys, huge earthquakes would occur and massive lightning strikes between the two planets would occur. Everyone on the planet would certainly witness this kind of event. The stories, naming, and visibility of Mars’ moons were chronicled.

As shown in Psalms 82:5, the foundations of the earth are out of their courses. Because of the sins of man, God changed His perfect dance of the earth, moon, and sun into chaos for a while. He did changed it again for Hezekiah and Joshua by making the shadow on the sun dial go back ten degrees and hold the sun and the moon in place for the length of almost a day, respectively. Science cannot explain this because they reject the notion that the current placement of our solar system wasn’t always so.

Even during Jesus’ crucifixion something occurred. The “eclipse” could not have been the moon because the moon is full during Passover, which means that the earth is between the moon and the sun. So what caused the darkness?

Matthew 27:45 “Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.”

It is my belief that the darkness was God. When He visited Abram it was in a horror of great darkness and God spoke to Moses from a thick darkness.

Genesis 15:12And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.”

Deuteronomy 5:22These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.”

God has promised that all the chaos would return in the last days. Here are a few verses:

Isaiah 13:9-13 “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.”

Joel 2:30-31 “And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.”

Luke 21:25-26 “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.”

Revelation 8:12 “And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.”

Now if you read this last verse carefully, you’ll notice that the only way to have the sun, moon, stars, night and day shine a third less, would be if the earth’s rotation increased by eight hours. Therefore, a day would no longer be 24 hours, but 18 hours long. So horrific will the last days be that Jesus Himself states:

Matthew 24:22 “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”

If you do your own homework, you’ll come across an idea that Hezekiah was the first to increase the calendar, but if you read Scripture, Hezekiah repaired that Temple and called Israel and Judah to repent. This happened in Nisan and they did not finish sanctifying the House of the Lord nor themselves until the sixteenth of Nisan – after the date they should have had the Passover. Not having kept the Passover for so long, Hezekiah calls all of Israel and Judah to come to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover in the second month, the month Iyyar. So many people came that they had to enlist the help of the non-priest Levites to help with the sacrifices. They kept the Feast of Unleavened Bread for seven days and when it was finished, asked to keep an additional seven days with great joy. Many claim that this is proof that the calendar changed. I do not believe this to be true because the changing of the sun’s shadow didn’t happen until many years later. Sadly, there is a lot of open debate on this topic in the Talmud (Tractate Sanhedrin), but that is because they choose their oral traditions over Scripture, or more accurately, their traditions blind them. I just want to point out that this story shows that though God commands men to keep His word, He is flexible and forgiving when it comes to the matter of the heart; whether it be humbled and repentant or not. (II Chronicles 29-32; II Kings 18-20; Isaiah 36)

Finally, Scripture implies that the calendar will revert to a 360-day year again. Daniel prophesied that when the antichrist desolates the temple, 1290 days would pass before the end. Daniel 12:7 and John in Revelation 12:14 speak of time, times, and half a time. Revelation 11:2 and 13:5 speak about the passage of 42 months before the end. Revelation 11:3 says the two prophets will preach for 1260 days, and in 12:6, the “woman”, i.e. Israel, would be carried away and protected for 1260 days. If a “time” is a year, then a “time, times and half a time” would be 3.5 years. 1260 days is exactly 3.5 years in a 360-day year, as is 42 months containing 30-day months! But Daniel says from the desolation to the end is 1290 days. If you count from 1 Nisan 3.5 years you get 1 Tishri, the day I believe Jesus will return to begin His reign on earth, at the Feast of Trumpets!

Just my 2 cents again :)

Great post Abdicate (what are you abdicating from? :^). That was one of the most interesting and varied accounting for the 360 year calendar that I have heard. And the first I have heard that in "end times, we will return to it.
 
Hello Paul-

The Book of Enoch postulates a 364 day year, and states this would never change unto all eternity...

Enoch 74:12- And the sun and the stars bring in all the years exactly, so that they do not advance or delay their position by a single day unto eternity; but complete the years with perfect justice in 364 days. In 3 years there are 1,092 days, and in 5 years 1,820 days, so that in 8 years there are 2,912 days.

He does the math and hypothecates it out to 8 years....exactly 364 days per year with no additions or subtractions.

He said it would never change a single day unto all eternity, yet Vielokovsky has quotes from diverse ancient civilizations that show a change, not from a 364 day year to a 365 day year, but from a 360 day year to a 365 day year, so the Book of Enoch would be inaccurate on either side.

Here are a few quotes from "Worlds in Collision" attesting to the ancient calendar change:


1) “Numerous evidences are preserved which prove that prior to the year of 365 ¼ days, the year was only 360 days long” (p.330).

2) “The texts of the Veda period know a year of only 360 days.”

3) “This Hindu year of 360 days is divided into twelve months of thirty days each. The texts describe the moon as crescent for fifteen days and waning for another fifteen days; they also say that the sun moved for six months or 180 days to the north and for the same number of days to the south” (p.331).

4) “The ancient Persian year was composed of 360 days or twelve months of thirty days each. In the seventh century [B.C.] five Gatha days were added to the calendar,” (p.332).

5) “A relic of the system of 360 days is the still persisting division of the sphere into 360 degrees; each degree represented the diurnal advance of the earth on its orbit, or that portion of the zodiac which was passed over from one night to the next. After 360 changes the stellar sky returned to the same position for the observer on the earth” (p.340).

Are we really to think that all these different cultures had the same erroneous calendar of 360 days, and no one seemed to realize it? And are we to also think that all these same cultures had decided independent of each other that they should add the same 5 days to their existing calendar?

Although Vielokovsky does quote the day that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, the time frame for that occurrence would not correlate with when this universal calendar change took place, as the time of Joshua is thought to be about 1646-1616 BC, and the change occured around the 800-700 BC era.

Which places the miracle more towards the time of the miracle of God bringing back the sundial in the days of Hezekiah. Some think this 10 degree backward movement affected the course of the planets bringing us into the current 365 day / year period we now have.

Blessings....



I readidly and enthuseasticly admitt that I have done no study or work on the "days" and times which all of a sudden have shown up. I have however done some pretty extensive work on the Apocrapha and the contents of it and the validity of its books.

I am just an old country boy but I can say that any born-again Christian who has been reading the Bible for several years only needs to read the "Book of Enoch" briefly to know that something is very wrong. There are so many obvious flaws with this alleged missing book of God's Word that is very hard to list all of them. It seems very clear that someone copied from the Bible and wrote this inf0rmation. The same type of mumbo-jumbo can be readily observed in the Qur'an.

I do NOT believe that Enoch, who lived during the time period of Genesis, wrote this manuscript. Evidently the King James translators didn't either, and for good reason. Why would anyone say such a thing????

Because the Devil is working hard to corrupt and distort God's Word. Actually he has not changed his mode of operation as he has been doing real good since the Garden of Eden, when he caused Eve to doubt God's Word. Satan is so shrewd that he even tried to confuse our Lord by misinterpreting the Scriptures in Matthew 4:1-10. In these apostate times, the Word of God is under attack like never before. The reason why is simple... if Satan can pervert the Word of God into a lie, then he can control the masses!

To the Biblically ignorant reader, the Book of Enoch might have an appeal; but to a believer grounded in the Scriptures, the Book of Enoch is packed full of heresy.

In Enoch 40:9 we see this.......
"seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
I now about Michael and Gabriel, but who in the world is this "Phanuel". Who is "Raphael".

"Phanuel" is explained in the Book of Enoch as the Fourth arch angel. Now get ready folks if you are reading this, the Bible only list ONE arch angel......MICHAEL! Thats right ONE. Look it for yourself and we can talk about it if you want to.

So right off the bat we see that the book of Enoch contridicts and adds to the Word of God which is direct rebellion againt Deuteronomy 4:2................
"Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you neither shall ye diminish aught from it...................."

Then who is "Raphael"?????????
Raphael appears only in the Deuteronacanical Book of Tobit. Raphael is sometimes shown as standing atop a large fish or holding a caught fish at the end of a line. This is a reference to the Book of Tobit (Tobias), where he told Tobias to catch a fish, and then uses the gallbladder to heal Tobit's eyes.

The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel, or Raphael let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. What blasphemy! THINK about what you are reading in the book of Enoch!!!!!

That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches.

We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19).

Here is another example right out of the book of Enoch...........
Here's chapter 48:1-3...
"And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits."

THINK......STUDY. Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in Heaven?

This is an attack on the deity of Jesus. Jesus Himself claimed in Revelation 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Jesus is Eternal, without beginning or end. Head of Days? Lord of Spirits? These terms are NOT found in the Bible. IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't. Although some people claim that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch over 100 times, this is simply not true.

This is just two examples of how corrupt the book of Enoch really is. There are more if you are interested, just let me know.

The bottom line is that there is nothing in the Apocrpha which can be used as Bible doctrine today which we can learn fr
Thank you Major. As you already have talked with me, I need another witness in scripture to say something that is true and I don't need 10 others saying I am misunderstanding what I think the other two are saying. I don't take one, and discount the 10. I try to avoid mans doctrine and ideas of God as much as possible and need something called scripture.

As for the giants?? The Angels kept not their first estate does not say the angels had sex with humans. There is lots of straw grasping and junk science the foolish look into to prove something we have no scriptural evidence on.

Even if that one scripture meant that angels had sex with humans and made children that were giants, then all them giants were drowned long ago anyway, still making it a non issues.

Peter talked about the flood and about God's judgement once and how there will be judgement again. Peter never mentioned no giants and would have if there was any validity in the theory.



Its not in Scriptures............ what are you talking about?


Blessings.

We are in agreement Mike.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top