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Confusion!?. Modesty Or Appropriate

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brother_Mike_V, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Do we confuse modesty with appropriate; immodest with inappropriate?

    What is modesty in a Biblical perspective?
    Are 'modest' and 'appropriate' completely synonymous?
    If something is 'modest' does that automatically mean it is Church appropriate?
    By what standard are we using to judge modesty?
    What is the role of popular culture, tradition & parenting on this subject?
     
  2. wearing something which has less cloth than a handkerchief on beach or swimming pool is these days appropriate attire, some beaches you can get away with wearing nothing at all, which is appropriate attire, however try walking off the beach wearing a micro-bikini or nothing at all and you will soon run into problems, as that is not appropriate attire for the environment you are in. Most shops do not allow men to enter bare chested for example.

    Modesty is about not showing anything which exposes or hints at sexual awareness, short skirt, sexy looking stockings/tights, low cut top, most of which is acceptable attire for an office, but is it modest enough for church? No.

    If someone wants to walk around completely covered in non revealing or sensual clothes covering most of their skin, then that's up to them, and good for them, but is it necassary?

    What I do think is necassary is that women dress like this for church, and of cours not being sexist, men as well. If a woman wants to show of clevage, then there are plenty of other places to do it. Not in church, if a woman wants to walk around with a skirt so short or hardly anything covering her top so she flashes her underwear, then fine go and do that in a bar or club, but not in church.

    WHy is this important? Well its all about sexual conduct. Men are men, meaning we are all conditioned the same, to look as long as possible whats on display! Most men at some point will struggle with sexual temptation of sorts, it is therefore not right for a woman to display her self in such a way that encourages a man to look and think naughty things.

    I have had this discussion with women before who think the whole problem is the mans problem and they can do what they like. Yes if a man is taking himself to places where he can stare at naked or nearly naked women, then yes its his doing, he has control over to go or not to go, but why should a man be faced with struggles and temptation when he goes to church?

    That is not right at all and this is where people must think about being dressed modestly and think of other people for a change and not thier own vanity or image, you would not take a bottle of whiskey to church and drink it in front of someone who is struggling with alcoholism. Same with sexual struggles.
     
  3. Does "modesty" only pertain to clothing? :D
     
  4. Modesty in language.
    In the way you carry yourself.
    In the way you dance.
    In the way you flirt.
    In the things you buy.

    The list could go on. My answer to your OP is a solid "No". The secular worlds view of modesty IMO is quite different than Gods. Do I think God will put me in hell because of something I say or do that is, in His eyes, immodest? "No necessarily, but I try to do what's right in His eyes as often as possible.
     
  5. Our goal should be to be like Christ...?
     
  6. Yes, where do you get that I wouldn't think that? There are limitations though.

    Look, if we are going to stretch the Word in some circumstances and say that some of it is metaphors and poems, they we open the entire book up for mass interpretation (which it is). Therein lies the problem of subject like modesty. We know that in the OT, many men bed many woman and had concubines, but that changed, right? How can attire not have changed as well? Or language or dancing or whatever you want to attach modesty to.
     
  7. Are you sure it has changed? It just isn't the culture in the USA. Also, the original relationship is One man (Adam) with One wife (Eve). So where did it go wrong? Between the Garden and wandering in the wilderness.

    So we in the USA and 'civilized' cultures practice more closely to the guidelines set in Genesis for marriage. What was the first thing Adam and Eve did after sin? They hid because of their nakedness...what was the first act of love God did after their punishment was laid out? He made them clothes.....

    So although we are close in marriage, our modesty in our culture is one of lewdness, closer to the pre-sin days showing nakedness. BUT we live in the fallen sinful world. It is a duplicitous point.

    There is a whole bunch of law in Leviticus about seeing 'nakedness'-we aren't supposed too unless you are in the sack with your spouse...(or the pre-sack games in private! :D)
     
  8. What about the multiple men with multiple women? I disagree with your statement, which guidelines are you referring to exactly? This makes my point, how you want to abide by some things in the OT, but not others. No. Doesn't work that way if you are going to make the argument your making. DO you see where I'm coming from, brother? No animocity here...I'm just trying to understand and clarify. :)
     
  9. I said the guidelines for marriage were set in in Genesis-not the promiscuous sinful nature of popular culture. The Hebrews were not following the guideline set forth by the Lord in the beginning either....

    You also have to distinguish your people types as far back as Cain & Able-those we are followers of the Lord and those who are not. Humans have been screwing up God's plan since the beginning-that's my point.
     
  10. Abraham? Jacob?
     
  11. Yup-sinners like the rest of us-but God turns all things for good-to His purpose.

    Genesis 2:21-25, Deuteronomy 17:17

    Matthew 19:4-5, Mark 10:2-8, 1 Timothy 3:2, 1 Timothy 3:12, Titus 1:6
     
  12. This is a rather interesting perspective that you have. Most people have simply said that's how things were back in the day. Yet you're saying it was against God's will and that they were simply sinning. Am I correct?
     
  13. There is no "marriage commandment"; however, when you examine the intent of the Word-it should be clearly evident that 1 man + 1 wife = God's original intent for human procreation and living a Godly lifestyle of peace. If God was all about the 'rules', well what would be the point-we might as well get naked and party cause we're all going to the same place anyway! :p

    God uses the situation to His purpose-not for our amusement. We have the ability for wickedness without Him telling us. How many children are 'taught' to sin? It comes inherently from or pride/ selfish nature.

    We may be getting off topic a tad....
     
  14. Here's the thing:

    We get so wrapped up in the 'flesh' that we don't see the forest through the trees. Are the clothes we wear, the music we listen too and the books we read detrimental to our salvation? I think we should 'take heed' to ourselves because what we input-we will output.What we project is what is perceived.

    When it comes to 'modesty' in relationships, things become a little more serious-if we reproduce-we are responsible for the upbringing of the next generation. When we form interpersonal relationships, we become RESPONSIBLE for what we say and how we treat other people-it is no longer just our 'self' involved. You become accountable to God for the other persons welfare due to your actions.

    When we have children, the responsibility increases because we now become responsible and accountable for the advancement of the next generation in Christ. As 'modest' living slips away-so does the Faith, in my opinion.
     
  15. Are you a 'special treasure'; a 'peculiar people'?

    Exodus 19:3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

    Malachi 3:13 Your words have been stout against me, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee? 14 Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord of hosts? 15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered. 16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels (special treasure); and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

    Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

    Deuteronomy 26:18 And the Lord hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;

    Psalm 135:4 For the Lord hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

    Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

    1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:


    What kind of 'treasure' do you want to be for God? Gold? Silver? Copper? Bronze? Iron? Quartz?
     
  16. I think it's important as believers not to go too far with judging others on issues like this unless it is very obvious someone is going against the Word. Otherwise it's just an opinion and possibly incorrect. We ultimately don't know God's opinion of clothes (for example) today, though I'm sure we could safety say some things are downright inappropriate. Some of the "small" things in the bible are menial compared to the 10 commandments and accepting Jesus as our savior. Read some of my earlier posts where people on the site said the same thing...it's confusing.
     
  17. No
     

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