1. Hello Guest! You are browsing the forums as a guest; you will have limited permissions as a guest so we advise registering to enjoy the forums fully. Remember: we are a Christian ONLY site - any user who is not Christian will not be approved. Blessings, Christian Forum Site Staff
    Dismiss Notice

CONDITION –Miles Stanford

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by netchaplain, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. (Fact pertaining to conditional truth is that it cannot affect positional truth. Fact pertaining to positional truth is that it can affect conditional truth: Parenthisis mine )

    First of all, we must consider the area in which we are not accepted by God, nor ever can be (Rom 8:7: verse insert mine). It is only natural for us to feel that our spiritual walk and service make us acceptable to our Father. We imagine that it is our responsibility (with His help) to live and serve so faithfully and fruitfully that He will approve of us, and therefore continually an abundantly bless us. We are making the natural mistake of depending on condition, instead of position, for our acceptance.
    Important as it is, service is often a condition-centered detriment in the lives of many zealous believers. When service is given predominance over fellowship with and growth in the Lord Jesus, doing, instead of being, takes over the life. Fellowship and growth must ever take precedence over service and activity, otherwise spiritual declension sets in.

    In this reversal of God’s order for us, the heart seeks satisfaction and a sense of acceptance through production (law), instead of reception (grace). Bible study and prayer, as well as one’s outlook, become almost exclusively service-centered. Instead of life bringing forth service, service becomes the life. Thus, as long as the service goes well, the servant is happy and feels accepted. But once the service wanes or fails to produce results, all else falls with it. We are to be sons, not servants. “Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son . . .” (Gal. 4:7).

    In time, we begin to realize that there is something very wrong with this entire concept. We become aware that our walk and service are less and less acceptable, even to ourselves. In seeking to do rather that to be, in attempting to give out more than we take in, our condition becomes barren and carnal. We have been depending on self to do what only Christ our life can do; the farther we move on this tangent, the more active and malignant the self-life appears to be.

    What the condition-centered believer does not realize is that God Himself is causing this shattering revelation of self. He takes us into situations and relationships that finally cause us to face up to the fact of our failure as Christians ---our nothingness, our total unacceptability in ourselves. Not until we understand we understand that in our flesh (carnal nature: insert mine) there “dwelleth no good thing” (Rom. 7:18), can we rest in our position of complete acceptance in the Lord Jesus, just as we are. To abide in Christ, and consent to be loved while unworthy, is the believer’s positional privilege and responsibility. Love functions according to its nature, not according to the quality of its object.

    The believer who is not abiding by faith in the acceptable One, but who is relying on his personal condition for acceptance, is hopelessly handicapped in the matter of fellowship, growth and service. He is entangled in the self-effort of working to improve his condition and is inevitably cast down in utter defeat. How can a defeated, depressed, self-centered Christian enjoy fellowship with the Father, or be at peace with Him? Yet, devastating as this Romans 7 trek is, it is our Father’s preparation of us in order that we may shift our reliance and faith from our condition in ourselves, to our position in Christ. “. . . not I, but Christ” Gal. 2:20).
  2. We can also approach it from the angle of justification. When we are saved we are justified as righteous before God, in other words God see's us as righteous because of the atoning work of Jesus Christ. We take on the righteousness of Jesus Christ and become blameless and spotless in the eyes of God. We do not become righteous as Jesus was but we are declared righteous before God. In our own eye's we are forever made aware of sin through the Holy Spirit but we need to know that the truth is that the day we were saved we were declared righteous before God because of what Jesus did for us, not what we can do through our own works.

    When we finally accept this truth it is a humbling yet freeing experience.
  3. "When we finally accept this truth it is a humbling yet freeing experience." Fully agreed here and I believe that you are on the main issue conerning "it's not what we can do through our own works". Because the Father bases it all on Christ's works we know that, "He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous" (1Jo 3:7). This is due to our position in Christ, not our condition, "because as He is, so are we in this world" (1Jo 4:17).
  4. Yup it is all about Christ and what He did. Paul states that our good works are like filthy rags in comparison.
  5. ..... And yet, only those who serve Christ shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven.:confused:

    Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    The reality is that you cannot get to Heaven except by the grace of the Lord, BUT AT THE SAME TIME you cannot get to Heaven except that you obey and serve Christ.

    Or to put it another way you cannot enter the Kingdom merely by obeying and serving Christ BUT you cannot enter the Kingdom without obeying and serving Christ.

    The Lord chooses who shall enter His kingdom, but He choses those who serve and obey Christ. Our works and the Lord's Grace are two sides (ours and the Lord's) to the same coin. They cannot be seperated.
  6. If you are sayinf that we must obay to be saved, then No, that is not correct misty. IF we have to serve or obey as in we do something that effects our salvation, then that means we have input to our salvation and we do not.

    Ephesiians 2:8-10
    8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    That is true or not true but it can not be a combanation of both.

    Hebrews 5:9 is used by those who teach that the believers who received Hebrews must do works to be saved quote this verse in order to attempt to bolster their case. They say that this verse is teaching that the word "obey" refers to doing works so therefore these believers must do works in order to receive eternal salvation.

    However, the primary meaning of the Greek word translated "obey", hupakouo, is "to listen, to harken" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon). The word "harken" means "to give heed or attend to that which is said.". He who believes the truth of the gospel can be said to have "obeyed" that truth, as demonstrated by the following verse:
    "Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart" (1 Pet.1:22).

    Peter tells the believers that their souls have been purified because of their "obedience to the truth". At another place Peter says the following:
    "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as He did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9).

    Since the believers heart is purified by "faith" then when Peter speaks about one's soul being purified by "obedience to the truth" we can understand that Peter is saying that it was their "faith" that resulted in the purification of their souls.
  7. Hi again Major,

    If we can keep this as a discussion I will show you that both faith and works cannot be separated from salvation BY the Grace of the Lord.

    Firstly to clarify, salvation is by the Lord alone. We cannot save ourselves any more than a baby can give birth to itself. Only by the power of the Lord Himself can we be reborn a new (and saved) creature. Therefore unless the Lord, by HIS grace chooses to do this for us, it will never happen and we will perish along with the Earth.

    HOWEVER we must understand that the Lord has made it abundantly clear to whom He will, and to whom He will NOT grant salvation. Salvation is by the grace of the Lord BUT He has told us what WE must DO if we are to receive such grace. We cannot expect the grace of the Lord if we do not do that which HE has asked of us. The Old Testament (covenant) was an agreement, a TWO way contract between the Lord and the Israelites. Likewise the New Testament (covenant) is a TWO way agreement between The Lord and all who seek salvation. The LORD will not grant salvation to EVERYBODY on the planet, only those who ENTER INTO the covenant through Christ.

    Note Peter's response when the people asked HIM, "What must we DO to be saved?":-

    Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    We must understand the significance of the word "repent". It means repent from sin, and sin is DISOBEDIENCE of the Lord. In other words to repent from disobedience and OBEY the Lord. But you cannot obey the Lord by doing nothing. Obey is something you DO, not just something you say. This is the whole point of the "faith without works is dead" message.

    James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    In short the Lord has said IF you do that which the New Convenant requires of you then I will fulfill the covenant by granting you the grace of salvation and entry to the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Faith, Works (of faith), and Salvation by the Grace of the Lord are so intertwined that they can NEVER be treated as seperate issues. No man should expect salvation by the Grace of God by doing .... nothing at all.
  8. My dear friend in Christ, I do love you and do not intend to argue with you as I have made that clear on another thread.

    I read and understand what you are saying and I must disagree with the idea completely.

    The one and only thing we do in the salvation process is say "YES" to the invitation from God.

    Please consider all the Scriptures that confirm that statement.
    Galatians 1:8
    "But thought we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed".

    That verse tells us that it is the MESSAGE that is important, not the messenger.

    Now for all who are reading this, please notice verse # 11-12............
    " But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
    12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. "

    The reason why Paul said that is that the gospel he preached was NOT from man in nature neither in its origin. The gospel of Jesus Christ came directly from the risen Lord Jesus.

    If then anyone....including an angel from heaven teaches anything different than what Paul preached...."he is to be accursed". (Damed, rejected).

    It is the gospel that saves men, not what men can do for themselves. Anything, yes anything that man is told he MUST do to be saved or to help in his salvation or even to stay saved is error.
    Now this is not some wild new thinking on my part that no one has ever heard before. This is what has been taught by mainline Christianity for alomist 2000 years as basic, fundamental Christian doctrine.

    Ephesians 2:8-10
    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

    The grace of God removes the works of men in salvation. The gospel shuts men out of the salvation of God. WHY????

    Because anything we could do to be saved would cheapen the work and sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

    Romans 4:5
    But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

    IF we had any imputin our salvation whatsoever, the nature of ALL men would mean that we had some righteousness in us. But my dear friends, the ZBible declares...NOT ME, the Bible says.........

    Psalms 14:3
    "They are ALL gone aside, they are ALL together become filithy: there is NONE that doeth good, no, not one."

    Psalms 53:1
    "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity, tghere is NONE that doeth good."

    Romans 3:10
    "As it is written, There is NONE righteous, NO NOT ONE".

    Now then...........Salvation is not based upon what you do. In other words, you don't have to obey any Law of God in order to become saved. This is because no one is saved by keeping the Law of God according to God's Word in Gal. 2:21 and Romans 2:24-28. That then brings up the problem where many say that we as Christian have a licence to sin. But that does not mean that you can go and sin all you want. Romans 6:1-3 expressly condemns such action. Instead, we are saved for the purpose of purity as told to us in 1 Thess. 4:7.

    Our salvation is strictly from God: "By grace through faith you have been saved…" as we saw in Ephesians 2:8. Other than acting by faith in trusting and accepting what Jesus did on the cross, you don't do a thing because that is what John 1:12-13 tells us in order to become saved. Since you did not get your salvation by what you did, you can not lose it by what you do.

    Now to the question of whether "repentance is necessary for salvation.

    This is a good question and the answer is yes -- and no. Now, before you throw stones, hear me out. Repentance is a necessary result of the saving work of God, not the cause of salvation. Think about that for moment before you comment. Just think!!!!
    If repentance brought salvation, then salvation is by works; or rather, the ceasing of bad works. That isn't how it works. God grants repentance to the Christian in 2 Tim. 2:25. The Christian then turns from his sin; that is, he stops sinning. He is able to repent because he is saved, not to get saved.

    In 1 John 1:9 the Bible says,
    "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

    Confession of sin and its natural result of repentance are necessary elements of the Christian's life. But, what about the sins that we do not know we commit? If we do not confess them and do not repent of them, are we still saved? Of course we are! Otherwise, we would be forced to confess and repent of every single sin we ever commit. In effect, we'd be back under the Law, living by a rule of absolute repentance of every detail lest you be damned. This is bondage, not freedom. Jesus said His yoke was light, not hard in Matt. 11:27-30.
    So, repentance is not the cause of salvation, but it is a result of salvation. The believer repents from his sins upon trusting in Christ and thereafter, continues to repent of further sins that the Lord reveals to him.
  9. The New Covenant is actually a blood covenant between Father and Son. A blood covenant could only be entered upon by equals. We are brought into that covenant only because we are in Christ. The terms of the covenant are not, cannot be, never have been, and never could be, met by us, but only by Him. That is why the Father imputes Christ's righteousness to us - because we are included in Him.

    How do we get to be included in Him? By receiving His grace. To do that we have to turn away from our old way of life (repentance) and place our faith in Him. These are not "works" by which we earn salvation, but merely the way in which we receive it. It is as if we are holding in our hands a bundle labeled "my works", and God hands us a bundle labeled "My grace." Since we can only hold one bundle at a time, we must put down the former in order to take the latter.

    How do we get to remain included in Him? By remaining in His grace. As we open that bundle labeled "God's grace" we find that it contains not only the ability to come to Him, but the ability to follow and serve Him. That does not mean that our Christian life becomes passive, with God playing us like a puppet on a string, but that for every aspect of our lives, it is His grace that enables us. We are required to walk it out, but only in His power, never in our own strength.


  10. I will leave it for others to decide for themselves whether or not Jesus Himself has declared that those who do not OBEY and DO the will of the Lord do not receive the grace of salvation:-

    Matt 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Likewise I shall also leave it for others to judge for themselves if the writer of Hebrews has not said that UNLESS you desist from disobeying the Lord (that is, start OBEYING the Lord) then there is no way left by which you may be saved by the Grace of the Lord:-

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully (that is disobey the Lord) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    It is not for me to tell people what to believe, only what it is the Lord himself has said, declared, and .... written.
  11. Actually the covenant is made with US through the blo0d of Christ. Note these verses:-

    Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    All who are in Christ ARE the "House of Israel". That is what the illustration of the ingrafted branches is about, and Paul's comment about being inwardly a Jew.

    As to the necessity to DO something to RECEIVE (not earn) Grace see the above reply to Major. But understand I never said the doing was by our own power, only that we actually have to DO something, even if it is in the Lord's strength.

    The danger is in the idea that you can receive the grace of the Lord to salvation without the necessity to actually do anything except call him "Lord" and declare with your lips that you have faith. Matt 7:21 tells us of the fate of those who merely profess faith and belief with their lips but do not obey and actually DO the will of the Lord.
  12. Of course is always up to the individual as to what they believe the Scriptures.

    As for Matt. 7:21.....it just can not be used to substaniate the idea that we must obey in order to be save.

    Matt. 7:21 is obviousely speaking of those who CLAIM to be saved but in fact were never saved to begin with. They could have been religious but were never saved so then the idea of obeying after salvation can not apply here. Then to do the WILL OF MT FATHER . SO THEN, WHAT IS THE WILL OF THE FATHER???

    John 6:38-40
    For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Here the Father's will is clearly stated. It is His will that we believe on Jesus who came to satisfy the demand of God, the righteouseness of God, the holiness of God and to pay the sin dept make possible the redemption of the sinner. IT IS THE FATHERS WILL FOR US THAT WE BELIEVE ON HIS SON. We become sons of God by believing on Jesus. John 1:12-13.

    HEBREWS 10:26 will not work as a basis for obeying the law to be saved or to keep our salvation either. The Holy Spirit warns those who have received the knowledge of the truth. This verse corresponds to that in chapter 6:4 of Hebrews for proper context. The sin referred to here in vs. 26 is the sin of "willful" apostasy. The context is that there were Hebrews who had embraced Christ, turned their backs on Judaism and as well turned their back to legal sacrifices for sin. NOW if they abandoned Christ to return to Judasim, THEY WOULD HAVE NO SACRIFICE AT ALL.

    There is but one sacrifice for sin and it is the one Christ made. Those (Hebrews) guility of turning their backs on His sacrifice could not find a second sacrifice. Such a person could then expect nothing but the wrath of God and Divine judgment.

    CONTEXT is always the key to proper understanding. I agree with you 100% as I and you can let those who read this make their own choices because in the end that is what life is all about isn't it. CHOICES.

    Good day and the Lord bless you.
  13. Context is indeed always the key to understanding BUT that context extends to the ENTIRE word of God. No part of the Bible can be interpreted in a way that renders any other part of the Bible as untrue. That which is less clearly declared must always be understood in the light of that which is more specifically and clearly declared.

    At that I too will leave it for people to ponder the passages I have quoted and remind them of the one I started with:-

    Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
  14. Another scripture relevant to this discussion.

    1 Cor 10:12 ''Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall''
  15. Wonderful. We are agreed!

    Now allow me to speak to the verse you quoted once again to support your thought as found in ....................

    Hebrews 5:9
    And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    "And being made perfect" = That is, made complete, made full.
    "Eternal salvation" = The only kind of salvation that God offers is eternal.
    "Unto all them that obey him" = The Greek word here is translated as TO LISTEN.

    "A small boy asked the preacher, 'Sir, What can I DO to be saved?' The preacher replied, 'Son, you're too late.' 'What!' exclaimed the boy, 'too late to be saved?' 'No,' said the preacher, 'too late to do anything. You see, son, Jesus already did it all two thousand years ago."

    Acts 6:7: "And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith."
    Romans 10:16: "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias [Isaiah] saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?"​
    I Peter 1:22: "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:"​
    The words "obey him" in this verse are not referring to keeping the commandments as mediated by Moses, a.k.a. the old covenant Law with the Ten Commandments. Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, not Moses; and it is the priesthood of Melchizedek and not the Levitical priesthood (which administered the letter of the Law) that Christians partake of.

    We must not confuse works of the Law with works of the Spirit. After placing our faith in Christ, we are dead to the Law and have newness of life in Christ Jesus.

    Romans 7:4-6..............
    " Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

    One great part of the Spirit's work is not to enable the man to do something which will help to save him, but so to detach him from his own performance, that he shall be content with the salvation which Christ finished when He died and rose again. ~ Horatius Bonar
  16. Not really wanting to prolong the discussion but there is a neccessity (for those who may be unaware) to correct, or at least clarify, a couple of points you have made.

    The first is in the definition of the word "obey". It is, in this passage the Greek word "hupakouo" (pronounced hoop-ak-oo’-o). It means (from Strong's):-

    1) to listen, to harken
    1a) of one who on the knock at the door comes to listen who it is, (the duty of a porter)
    2) to harken to a command
    2a) to obey, be obedient to, submit to

    Clearly in this context it is not being used in the first sense, but in the second sense. In this sense it is more than merely to hear sounds. It is to HEED, to pay attention to, AND to act in accordance with what is said. In other words to hear AND obey.

    The other is to point out that Jesus did not ABOLISH the Law, merely changed its nature. Jesus is not an author of LAWlessness. There is still a spiritual Law of which the Mosaic Law was merely a shadow. The Mosaic Law is one of flesh and one of "letter". The Law of Jesus is a spiritual law of the heart and mind. That is why matters pertaining to the flesh ALONE are no longer relevant, but those pertaining to the spirit and the heart and mind are applied as an even greater law. What we eat is no longer of any importance but we still cannot commit adultery, indeed we cannot even allow the thought to enter our MINDS. We still cannot kill, indeed we now must not even get angry.

    Note the last part of Romans 7:4-6 that you quoted "so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter." Understand that whether in the oldness of the letter or in the newness of the Spirit the one constant is that - we SERVE, we OBEY.

  17. PS: Even anecdotal stories and the words of Horatius Bonar I will test against the word of the Lord to see if they are actually true or not. I place the word of no man higher than the word of God, but rather will test THEIR truth or untruth against it.

    There is nothing in the Bible that allows us to NOT be responsible (ie detach ourselves) from our actions and behaviour in Christ. Indeed in Christ we become even MORE responsible for our actions and words.
  18. Misty stated..............
    "The danger is in the idea that you can receive the grace of the Lord to salvation without the necessity to actually do anything except call him "Lord" and declare with your lips that you have faith".

    Ephesians 2:8...........
    "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".

    2 Timothy 1:9

    "who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began".

    Romans 4:16

    "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all".

    John 1:12

    "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name".

    A sharpdistinction must be drawn between the compassionate love of God for sinners and His grace which is now offered to them in Christ Jesus. Divine love and divine grace are not one in the same! God might love sinners with an unutterable compassion and yet, because of the demands of outraged divine justice and holiness, be unable to rescue them from a righteous doom.

    However, as I have stated before, if love shall graciously provide for the sinner all that outraged justice and holiness could ever demand, the love of God would then be free to act without restraint on the behalf of those for who the perfect substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus was made.

    That is what Jesus achieved on the cross which means that divine GRACE in salvation is the unrestrained compassion of God acting toward us sinners on the basis of that freedom secured by Christ.
    ANYTHING that we must do in order to obatin or keep that gift from God which is salvation is then to cheapen the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

    Faith is the instrument of salvation and it is the ONLY element that the sinner brings to the great transaction of salvation. Yet, it too is the gift of God!!!!

    Romans 10:17....
    "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God".

    God made it very clear that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. No where in there is the idea or order to OBEY the Laws of God or to do something that would increase that faith or improve God's grace. It just is not there. Now we can work, we can take verses out of context and force them to fit our thinking, but we can not find them to tell to DO SOMETHING to be saved or stay saved.

    I leave it there unless another Bible verse is used and then I will respond to that verse as best as I can.
  19. As to the house of Israel...........the fact is that we as Christians are SPIRITUAL JEWS!

    IS. 45:22-25
    Rom. 4:18-25
    Gal. 3:26-29
    Eph. 2:1-3:6
    Titus 2:11-14
    1 Peter 2:9
  20. Correct!

    After we come to the Lord we will by the Holy Spirit have the desire to serve and obey BUT neither one of those have anything to do with salvation or keeping our salvation as the Bible verse I quoted clearly state.

Share This Page