Thank you, @Penion, @Fish Catcher Jim, and @Euphemia, for your responses. I think it's time for me to withdraw from the discussion, because it seems to be going round in circles. In addition, over the course of the discussion, I've made reference to a good many scriptures which bear out the truth in question. These scriptures have not been taken up, discussed or addressed by the brethren who're telling me that I'm wrong, and no scriptures have been referenced which would support the variety of opposing ideas which have been advanced here. No discussion of this kind can be of much use unless the word of God is really taken up as the anchor and the mainstay of it. I'm not saying these things in the spirit of criticism, more of concern. If we can't trace our doctrine to the Source, God's word, then we have to question where it is coming from.