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Christ's Perception Of Time

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by TParis, Dec 10, 2013.

  1. This might seem like a bit of an amateur question, but I had a thought the other day. If God is omnipotent, does He perceive time linearly as we do? And if He does not, and if Christ is God made into man, then does Christ perceive time linearly during his time on Earth? Does anything in the bible support the idea that perhaps Christ did not perceive time the same as the rest of mankind?

    Or, more abstractly, does God perceive time at all? Is time itself another creation of His to which he can chose when and if it applies to Him? Does the existence of prophecy support my idea at all?

    I'm not suggesting time travel, which would involve the physical body moving between different periods of time. Only time perception.

    Okay, I'm ready for my idea to be ridiculed...
  2. #2 LysanderShapiro, Dec 10, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
    Great question -- I don't think it's amateur at all.

    C.S. Lewis wrote a great explanation for this in Mere Christianity:

    But you're also asking in regards to Christ's perspective of time (or lack their of). I think it's safe to say that Christ experienced linear time as he went through events in a specific order. Though as He is seated at the right hand of the father, I think Heaven itself is a place of non-linear time (or no time at all). For instance, those in heaven have received eternal life, but eternal life might not be moment after moment as we can only understand. I think it is rather a single point of being.

    However, there is an argument that Christ experienced time as God does while on earth. In Luke 23:43, Jesus tells the good thief "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." There is a lot of discussion and theory over this one verse as He told the thief that he would be in Paradise today. However, Christ descended into Hell. He wasn't in heaven until he was resurrected and then ascended. Many Catholics hold the position that 'Paradise' is purgatory. Many Christians hold the position that this was God the Father speaking literally through the Son when he told the thief this. (However, the argument against that is that Christ is the Son and would have probably said "You will be with my Father in heaven.") But another theory is that Christ was speaking in the sense of non-linear time.

    That might be a stretch, and there are more theories to the meaning of this one verse in particular, but I think there's fuel to each one...well, depending on your doctrinal position.
    TParis likes this.
  3. #3 ixoye_8, Dec 10, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
    it is a good question .. I see many examples of Jesus grouping eras ..
    such as "this generation" .. many perceive this in the form of a lifespan .. but that is not how Jesus meant it .. it is as "a generating period" .. this is confirmed in that Jesus explained things in terms that people could relate to .. there are two crops per growing season .. thus two generations and two harvests (first fruits and second fruits) the first generating period is from Jesus' birth until His 2nd coming .. the second generating period is the millennium rule .. the first crop always takes twice as long to produce fruit then the second based on the roots are already established for the 2nd to produce fruit ..

    hence Atheist not understanding this verse and erroneously claiming fallacy ..
    because Jesus says "this generation shall see him return" ..

    Mat 24:34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
  4. most often doctrinal differences arise on lack of understanding ..
    in Luke 23:43 the word παράδεισος paradeisos is used (and can only be found 3x in the NT) this is NOT the same thing as heaven (the abode of God) which is οὐρανός ouranos (and can be found 268x in the NT, also 5X as heavenly) ..

    Luk 23:42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"

    Luk 23:41 "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.

    Luk 23:40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
    LysanderShapiro likes this.
  5. God knows everything at once. He doesn't merely foresee the future but knows everything simultaneously
  6. #6 KingJ, Dec 11, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
    I beleive that with us and perhaps all of His creation, He does.

    Many try get too ''mystical / dreamy'' but if we look at scripture there is a clear sequence of events. With any sequence you need time keeping. For example Jesus did not die and rise at the same moment. The one preceded the other.

    Jesus said John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. If there was no ''time'' in heaven these would already be prepared.
  7. The way I perceive time- Time is a circle.

    IMO, time as a line is of 'man', and can mislead, or distract one from God.

    Like how we use midnight as the end of a day. That is not how days were set up in the beginning. A day ends when the sun sets, not at midnight, but 'man' has come up with that concept, again, to lead people away from the truth set up 'In the beginning'.

    5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. So there was evening, and there was morning, one day. Gen.1:5

    To some extent, a thousand years is a day to God. Like this era, from genesis 1:2, until Messiah Jesus returns should be about 6,000 years, and Jesus coming reign, a thousand years. Patterned after the week set up in genesis, 6 days for work, the 7th the Sabbath, or Jesus return reign.

    'Man', to distance himself away from God, (and the Hebrews), comes up with ideals that suit him.

    These are my beliefs, and they may not reflect those of this site.
  8. #8 KingJ, Dec 11, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
    God is first and last, not us. All creation has a beginning and hence an age.

    Just been thinking.....Asking questions of God's greatness can really (x infinity) blow our minds :).

    Where does God come from? How old is God? Was there a point when God was alone, before He spoke anything into being? What are we going to do in heaven for all eternity?

    We simply have to accept that grasping God's greatness is beyond us! Perhaps even in heaven! :(.

    What we do know from scripture though is simply amazing!!!! This great and powerful God is good, meek, humble and lowly in heart. He teaches us that the greatest is the humblest. So we do not need to fear Him, since He is the greatest. We will be kept with Him in Christ, in His house for all eternity :eek::eek::eek::eek:. Us a mere creation, God bends over and then some for us!

    The mistake we must never make is to insert assumptions about God! Scripture defines God, we must listen to it! Example ...God is so great and powerful He can do whatever He wants (y) = He can choose who He wants in heaven (y) = He does choose who He wants (y) = We have no control over it (n). Scripture is clear on whom He chooses. The 'whomsoever' will accept Him.

    Another example....can God create us from monkeys, of course He can! Did God create us from monkeys? No. How can we be confident? Scripture tells us how He created us. No need for dreamy opinions.

    Everything we need to know is covered by scripture.
  9. John 3:13
    No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

    So from this scripture, and there is another one that says, not even David is in heaven. What happens to us when we die?
  10. Before Jesus's resurrection nobody qualified to be in Heaven (no worthy sacrifice for our sin existed). Everyone was in Abrahams bosom. After the resurrection if we die in-Christ we go to be with Him, in paradise / heaven. Abrahams bosom was emptied when He ascended.
  11. I thought a big part of Jesus's gospel was the coming kingdom here on earth, He mentions it several times. I guess we can agree, to disagree?
  12. The New Jerusalem will be on earth. So no need to agree to disagree ;). Remember where God is, is heaven.
    dUmPsTeR likes this.
  13. indeed .. that's why people mistake predestination with foreknowledge ..
  14. I guess. How?
  15. That would seem to imply my original idea, that God does not perceive time linearly. He perceives all periods of time together or freely intertwines through them at will.

    Assumptions and questions are not the same thing. I think it's healthy to ponder the awesomeness of God's existence. God's nature is too great to be written in the short distance between covers of the bible. There is much more to him worth thinking about.
  16. Yes. God is omnipresent and omniscient so Everything happens at same time I guess.
  17. Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    Nobody ascended to Heaven yet because they were all in Hell, some in Paradise fixed by a gulf. When Jesus went to hell and preached to the spirits in prison he came back out on the 3rd day which was seen by many. Because He did the work, we get to go to those Mansions he prepared for us when we die.

    So if you buy the farm, you get to be with the Lord. If you don't know the Lord your judged already and it's roasting time until judgement day.

    (Soul sleep is a myth) Myth Busted!! We are spirits with a body and spirits don't sleep.

    Your right, the Kingdom of God is now here. With that Kingdom comes authority, healing and the Power of God to enforce His will on earth. Jesus said thy Kingdom Come, they will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. We occupy until Jesus comes.
    Jesus will set up HIS Kingdom here on Earth and we rule with him. That is yet to happen, but the Right to enforce the Will of God is here and now.

    It's good to ponder things. Not Good to ponder things full of scriptural contradictions. There is no scripture that tells us God perceives all periods of time, God lives outside of time, or even that God's will is done through the time periods.

    As always, this is interesting. There can be no such thing as foreknowledge unless we imply God has very limited foreknowledge.

    I was at healing School (Great place to hang out through the week and hear faith) when the teacher said........"God loves us, He knew before the foundation of the World that Adam would blow it, but God already had a plan. A plan to send Jesus our healer and our Savoir"

    My wife says I have developed a self entitlement to only sit and listen to the best. That means whoever is teaching must be perfect and spot on scriptures with zero contradictions. I normally like to hear this guy, it builds me up, but I must admit I wanted to yell out. "What Scripture is that, God knew Adam would blow it!!!!!" Oh, he gave one, in Peter how Jesus being foreordained before the foundation of the World.............. He needed to re-read that again.

    2 weeks ago before this he just mentioned, "Our Lord Jesus, the 2nd Person in the Godhead" Where is that scripture again?

    I guess I should not let these things bother me, but If I take the time to listen to you, you better take the time to stay on scriptures only.

    Just saying.

  18. Yes. God is omnipresent and omniscient so Everything happens at same time I guess.
  19. I've always viewed God as being a bit outside of time, however it isn't really necessary for it to be one way or the other. In the end, is usually ends up being a fun thought experiment, but it doesn't change who God is or what God knows.

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