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Christ on His own Throne.

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Marilyn C, May 30, 2016.

  1. Christ on His own Throne.

    We know that God , (the Father, Son & Holy Spirit) have a throne beyond all created things – an eternal throne.

    We also know that when Christ ascended in His glorified body that He sat down at the right hand of the Father with the glory He had before He came to earth.

    However....do we realise that Christ will have His own throne – the highest authority in the created order in the third heaven. Christ told us about His own throne

    `To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE, as I also overcame & sat down with my Father on HIS THRONE.` (Rev. 3: 21)

    We are told that this throne is set up in (the third) heaven.

    `Immediately I was in the Spirit; & behold a throne was set in heaven...` (Rev. 4: 2)

    Set – Gk. `keinai,` meaning to be appointed, set.


    The whole Godhead is involved in giving the authority & power & dominion of this throne, & they have to pronounce who is worthy to take that position. We are shown pictorially how this ceremony proceeds –

    `And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside & on the back, sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice,” Who is worthy to open the scroll & to loose its seals?” (Rev. 5: 1& 2)

    So the call goes out through heaven. Is there a man that is worthy to be able to take that central throne with its authority?

    `And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look at it.` (Rev. 5: 3)

    Who is worthy to receive the authority, the power, the rulership to sit upon that throne & execute God`s judgments contained within the scroll?



    Question - ` Who do you see as worthy, & what qualifications do you see they have?`
     
    ozarks likes this.
  2. #2 ozarks, Jun 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
    From the webiste Messiah Revealed, the section regarding fulfilled prophecies about the Attributes of the Messiah is where I study.

    Yeshua is the Messiah who is worthy.

    Yeshua's qualifications are numerous. Yeshua's qualifications are outlined in Messiah Revealed's Attributes of the Messiah. The following are several fulfilled prophecies that I am learning about that serve as Yeshua's qualifications..

    The first one is important to me because the law is within His heart and the Holy Spirit guides me to keep the law in my heart.

    Psalm 40:6-8b
    " 6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. 7Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, 8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart."

    Luke 24:44
    "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

    I am editing this, as I just read the copyright thread.
     
  3. Hi @ozarks,

    Sorry I haven`t got back to you sooner, but have been having trouble with my computer. It is finally fixed so am able to enter into discussion. Thank you for your good comments, & yes the Lord is indeed the worthy one. You may like to add more of Christ`s qualifications for us to read.

    Marilyn.
     
  4. Here is the problem with badly translated scriptures .Or a lack of understanding of the original text.
    There is a vast difference between "IN" and "ON"
    Jesus said he will sit IN His fathers throne and of others who will sit IN His throne .
    "To Him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me IN my throne, even as I overcame and am set down with my Father In His throne "
    No man can sit ON His throne but the Lord Himself . For the throne is His alone .
    Even as the Father .

    It was Lucifer who sought to ascend to the throne of God and sit ON it .

    The only one worthy to sit ON the throne is God Himself and no other .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  5. Jesus Christ's own throne is his Fathers throne. Jesus is known as the "arm" of the Lord since he is God's body. (Col 2:9) There are not two separate thrones, only one, as God is one. When Jesus sat on the "right hand" of God he literally is God's own right hand (arm).

    Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
    Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

    Isa 63:5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
     
  6. Hi @ geralduk & @CCW95A,

    Thank you for entering the discussion & giving your thoughts. Now the word throne, Gk word `thronos,` means, a stately seat & by impl. power. So we realise that God is not sitting on a seat, a throne, but has ultimate power & authority.


    Now God the Father desires that Christ would rule over all (under the Godhead)& gives Him the authority & power to rule over His enemies & bring them under His feet.

    Jesus said, “ the Father....has committed all judgment to the Son,...& given Him authority to execute judgment .....` (John 5: 22 & 27)

    Thus we can see that Christ was referring to God the Father giving Him executive power & authority to carry out His will. The pictorial representation of this is two thrones. However we know it is the giving of power from God the Father to the Son.

    Marilyn.
     
  7. #7 CCW95A, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
    Rev 4:2.. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

    Who was the person sitting on this one throne? The Lord God Almighty!!!

    Rev 4:8.. And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!"

    What did the twenty four elders do to the one sitting on this one throne? They worshiped him who lives forever, and ever!!!

    Rev 4:10.. the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

    Who did Jesus say they would see when they saw him (Jesus)? The Father. Whose throne does Jesus sit upon? His Father's!! One throne = one God not two, or three thrones.

    John_14:9.. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
     
  8. My objection was to the use of the word "ON" and its a very serious one .
    For reasons already stated .
    I was not talking at all about or debating the matter of the throne of God. But who sits upON it.
    The "throne " of God is not up to debate it is an established fact by too many scriptures tom be gainsaid save by those and all who deny the truth and He who sits upon it,

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  9. Hi @geralduk,

    Thank you for again pointing out the difference of `in & on.` I do agree that only the Godhead (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) are the authority & power over all. The pictorial representation of them on a throne, reveals to us that they are the sole authority above all.



    regards, Marilyn.
     

  10. Hi CCW95A,

    Yes I agree that Christ is the expressed image of the Father, thus if one sees the Lord Jesus then he has `seen` the Father. This is not in relation to bodily image but nature.

    Now the throne pictured in Rev. 4, is set up. This is not the eternal throne/authority of the Godhead, which is far above all, but the `arm of the Lord` the executive authority being set up by the Father. He is shown upon it as it is His authority that is `setting up,` giving this authority to His Son.

    We are told that this throne/authority is set up in (the third) heaven.

    `Immediately I was in the Spirit; & behold a throne was set in heaven...` (Rev. 4: 2)

    Set – Gk. `keinai,` meaning to be appointed, set.

    This is a picture of God the Father giving the executive authority to His Son to rule over His enemies.


    `I have set my King on My holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

    Set – Heb. `nacak,` meaning to pour out, to anoint a king, set up.



    We are given a pictorial representation of this ceremony – the Father on the throne, with the authority, then gives the authority & the inheritance to His Son.

    `And behold in the midst of the throne.....a Lamb....He came & took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.` (Rev. 5: 6 & 7)



    Marilyn.
     
  11. So, when we see God the Father sitting on his throne who exactly will we see? We will see Jesus Christ who just so happens to be God's body!!! Did God discard his body from himself or are we to really believe that all the Godhead dwells in their fullness in Jesus Christ bodily according to Col 2:9 ? Who exactly will we see when we see Jesus Christ sitting on his throne? We will see God the Father as they are both one.
     
  12. Hi @CCW95A,

    Yes I agree that the Father & the Son are –

    • of one mind,

    • are equal,

    • and are in unity.
    However in function there is a hierarchy.

    The Godhead - At the source there is the provision by the whole Godhead,


    The Father - with the initial movement of the Father;

    The Son - the administration of the Son;

    The Holy Spirit - and the direct agency of the Holy Spirit.



    The pictorial representation of `sitting on a throne` is an anthropomorphism. God the Father does not have a body as He is a Spirit which is omnipresent. It simply refers to His sovereign authority because a king sitting on a throne is something we can envisage. God uses something familiar to communicate the nature of His authority.

    Anthropomorphism - the representation of a deity in human form, or with human attributes.

    Thus what we are looking at is the Father initiating by giving executive authority to the Son. The Son is found to be worthy & thus receives the authority to execute judgments upon the rebellious nations.



    Marilyn.
     
  13. It is not a 'pictorial ' representation. There is indeed a throne and it is God who reigns from it . As he by another will also judge from it.

    and as I said there are too many scriptures to deny it.

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  14. Man was created in the image of God and as such reflected the glory of God .
    In that man has kings simply reflects that Jesus is the King of Kings .
    ALL scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. There is therefore nothing in scripture that is anthromorphic .
    Er and there is a MAN on the right hand side of the majesty on high.
    He has a physical body of "flesh and bone" and it is HE that sits IN His fathers throne.
    His name is Jesus.
    It is not man or I then that sees and understands that God has a' form' It is God by the scriptures that says He has a body.
    In truth we again are touching upon the Trinity of God that is not for the market place of the internet but for the most Holy place of God.
    It is not then a pictorial representation as you put it .
    There is indeed a throne and too many people have seen it and some under God have it recorded in scripture to deny it as some 'picture' of unreality'.
    Its just not a throne like unto men. But a "terrible" throne ." A great white throne " etc.

    in Christ
    gerald
     
    ozarks likes this.
  15. unfortunately, God the Father does have a body, and his body is Jesus Christ.

    Col 2:9.. For in him (Jesus Christ) the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

    God is omnipresence, but he is not every were or there would be no need for Jesus to ever take us to our father, or for us to ever come to his throne for that would be not needed if he is right here with us now. Not fully understanding the nature of God causes all kinds is weird ideas that are not sound.
     
  16. Actually there is more than one throne of God and depending on what God is judging will depend on the throne he is sitting on.
    With one breath you state the truth that God is Omnipresent.Then with the next you deny it.
    We must or should be consistant not only with our words but also in our biblical concepts.
    God IS everywhere all at the same time now. If he is not omnipresent he is not God.

    When scripture speaks of "drawing near to God" it is not geographical but physcoligical or spiritual.
    for a base example . Most sons at some time or another have a serious disagreement with their father .
    and if the father is right and they bare wrong ,though they are in the same house geographically they are miles apart in everything else.
    So much so that the son who is in the wrong will not speak or avoid to speak to his father and avoid his company.
    Geographically they are as it were in the same place .But in all other ways a 1000 miles apart.
    The prodigal son was from the moment he "came to himself " and thought thoughts of repentance began to draw near to his father long before he was geographically .
    the elder son on the other though he lived in the same house as his father and never left was in every respect as far away from his father as the other son had been .In his attitude to his returned brother.
    Jesus came so that we might in very truth "draw near to God" and like the tabernacke made with hands ,God made a way for unholy men to become holy and approach a holy God .
    Indeed where God Himself could dwell among his people .as much as they dwell with Him.
    Thus in the matter of the prescense of God from where can I flee from it?
    "if I go up to heaven thou art there" if I make my bed in hell thou art there ..........
    You cna be sure also that God was in that night club also and saw all of it .Both the wickedness of the murderer and the wickedness of those in the club.
    Where two or more are gathered in my name or where the brethren dwell togther in (true) unity,there the Lord commands a blessing .
    But he is not with His own people as he is in dens of iniquity .
    Sin is now based upon the rejection of Jesus Christ .and the Holy Spirit has come to convict of that sin of unbelief as he ahs also of righteousness and of judgement .
    To them that believe not "the wrath of God abides on them still" it is yet to be revealed .
    Gods presence then is in condemnation and judgement or in blessing .
    We should remember that the message of 'salvation' that the messengers to Lot and opened his eyes to the present and prevailing danger also brought blindness to the inhabitants and destruction to the city of the plains.
    The gospel then is a rwo edged sword .
    A sweet smelling odour to them that believe ,Death to them that do not.
    To them that believe and "seek Him who was crucified" it is a balm and a message of hope and comfort .
    To them that believe it is a terror .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
    Big Moose and ozarks say Amen and like this.
  17. Jesus is Worthy because He prevailed! That is what the text says. He prevailed through His Death and Resurrection. Even though He Himself was God and created all things, He humbled Himself and became a man, taking the form of a servant and humbling Himself, being obedient to His Father and dying for us. Therefore, God has highly exalted Him, giving Him a name that is above every name that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess to His Name. For the Father has Glorified Him in the Ascension with the Glory that He had with the Father before the worlds/ages were made.

    Therefore, John sees Him having seven horns (all power, authority, and dominion as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS), seven eyes which are the eyes of YHWH running to and fro upon the earth, which also are the Seven spirits (fullest manifestation of the HOLY SPIRIT. We see therefore that Jesus has all power, all wisdom, and is the fullness of God, and He is our Kinsman Redeemer who redeemed unto Himself a people from every kindred, nation, tongue, and tribe. In all these things, HE IS MORE THAN WORTHY.
     
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  18. God's presence with us is not the same thing as we being in God's presence. God's presence is every were, but he himself is not everywhere. Why would we need to travel or come into his presence as scripture says (Heb 4:16) if he is right here with us right now?” If coming to God is physiological how can a physical (fleshly) organism come to a spiritual place? Jesus said my Kingdom is not of this world, and if it is not of this world, then it is in another place.

    Psa 139:7-8
    (7) Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
    If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art
    there.

    Notice: the psalmist is not talking about God himself, but only his (God's) presence.

    Jer 23:23-24
    (23) "Am I only a God who is nearby?" announces the LORD. "Am I not a God who is also
    far away?


    (24) Can anyone hide in secret places so that I can't see him?" announces the LORD. "Don't I fill
    heaven and earth?" announces the LORD
    . (NirV)
    Isa 57:19

    (19) Then the people of Israel who are sorry for their sins will praise me. I will give perfect peace
    to those who are far away and those who are near.
    And I will heal them," says the LORD.
    (NirV)

    These few verses tell us that God's presence is every were. Yet not only is he near us, but
    also far away. How can that be? You can not be near, and far away at the same time, can he?

    Hebrews 4:15-16
    (15) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but
    was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
    (16) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and
    find grace to help in time of need.

    If God himself was near us, (he is but only by his presence) then why would the word of God tell us to come to the throne of grace, (which is not of this world) if he was already here with us?

    Psalms 43:3-4
    (3) O send out Your light and Your truth, let them lead me; let them bring me to Your holy
    hill and to Your dwelling.

    (4) Then will I go to the altar of God, to God, my exceeding joy; yes, with the lyre will I praise
    You, O God, my God!

    If God was near us, then why does this scripture ask God,” to send out his light and truth” so as to lead and bring us to his holy hill?
    There is nothing that can separate us from the love of God as the Apostle Paul tells us in Roman
    8:38.

    Rom 8:38-39
    (38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor
    things present, nor things to come,
    (39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love
    of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Heb 4:12-13
    (12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even
    to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the
    thoughts and intents of the heart.
    (13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are
    naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

    We can we have the presence of God with us and yet have our hearts far from him! This is a great
    mystery and it needs to be understood it if we are to grow in Christ, and be partakers of God's divine
    nature. Back in Romans Chapter 1:20

    Rom 1:20
    (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
    being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and
    Godhead;
    so that they are without excuse:

    God created this physical world with the intent to fashion it similar to the spiritual world. Man
    now has a huge visual aid to help him understand his spiritual Kingdom, and not only his spiritual Kingdom but even how God is in that Kingdom! “..even his eternal power and Godhead...”
    What was it that God created in this physical world that represents God in the spiritual world?

    Mathew 17:1-2
    (1) And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an
    high mountain apart,
    (2) And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was
    white as the light.

    Revelations 21:22-23
    (22) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
    (23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory
    of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    John 8:12
    (12) Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth
    me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

    Psalms 84:11
    (11) The LORD God is like the sun that gives us light. He is like a shield that keeps us safe. The
    LORD blesses us with favor and honor. He doesn't hold back anything good from those whose lives
    are without blame. (NirV)

    We just read that Jesus said,” he was the light of the world”. In the book of revelations Jesus (lamb
    of God) replaces the light of the sun, and moon, and lights up the Kingdom of God. On the mountain of
    transfiguration, Jesus's face shined like the sun in its strength. The Lord is like the sun...(Psalms 84:11)
    What do you think God,s revelation to man is in the physical world? The sun is not God, but it is a
    representation of how God is in his eternal spiritual Kingdom. There were people along time ago that use to
    worship the sun as God, and I am sure there are people today that still do. The Word of God tells us,
    Romans 1:22-25

    (22) Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
    (23) and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds
    and animals and reptiles.
    (24) Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the
    degrading of their bodies with one another.
    (25) They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things
    rather than the Creator
    —who is forever praised. Amen.


    The sun is not God, it is a created thing and is not to be worshiped. We are to worship he who
    created it! Imagine your self out side on a clear sunny day. You can feel the warmth as the light rays from the sun strike your face, and it causes you to be able to see physical things in this world. Yet the sun is at rest in one place in the sky, its not moving, but at rest. That light you sense on you is representative as the presence of God with you. There is no place you can go to get away from it. “There is nothing hidden from the eyes with whom we have to do!”

    God's light penetrates everything, just like the sun rays in this world. That's his presence with us, we reflect his Glory, and we can sense it with us, and on us! But remember, the sun has only one originating place in the sky. It is not every were, but in one spot only. Yet its light shines every were in our solar system. It has an impact on all things. God's presence is every were, but his originating source is in only one place. The manifestation of his being is revealed only in one place and one place only! God does not dwell in houses made with hands, He dwells only in the house he himself has built!

    All light no matter what kind it is must have a originating place from were it shines from. God is light, and the source of that light emanates only from one spot, and that spot is where God himself is resting, which would be upon his throne upon Mount Zion the city of the living God.

    Psalms 132:13-14
    (13) For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
    (14) This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

    Psalms 102:16-17
    (16) For the LORD has built up Zion; He has appeared in His glory.
    (17) He has regarded the prayer of the destitute, And has not despised their prayer.(NAS77)

    The Lord has built Mt Zion for his habitation. This is the place of his rest forever.

    Yes, God's presence is every were, but he dwells only in one place! God is near, and he is also far away. This is why he tells us to come boldly to his throne of grace. He desires our presence to be with him as his presence is with us.
     
  19. Jeremiah 17:12
    A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary.

    I am thankful for the throne of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

    I need to study the book of Ezekiel.
     

  20. Hi @Glad4Mercy,

    Thank you for your great comments on the Lord who receives this authority for He is the worthy one. First we see a description of His authority & then His qualifications for being worthy.

    Description of His authority. (Rev. 4)

    God has highly exalted Him above every name....

    7 horns – all power, authority & dominion.

    7 eyes – which is the seven fold Spirit of God.

    Prevailed -


    All these you mentioned & I will add a few more. 3 gem stones are mentioned, Jasper, Sardius & Emerald. These were all on the High Priest`s breastplate & represented a tribe & then there is a meaning of their name. These help us to understand what God the Father is revealing of Christ, His Son.


    Like a Jasper – The Jasper stone was the last gem on the breastplate It represented the tribe of Naphtali whose name means, to prevail, to conquer. Christ was the last Adam & He prevailed over the world, the flesh & the devil. The `blood-red` colour of the gem indicates the priceless cost of our redemption – Christ`s precious blood.


    Like a Sardius – This stone was first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It represented the tribe of Judah which means `to use the hand, indicating power & dominion, and a sceptre. Jesus, as we know, came from the tribe of Judah, but His kingship extends over all.


    A rainbow like an Emerald – The Emerald gem was also on the breastplate of the High Priest & represented the tribe of Reuben, the first born of Israel. We know that the Lord Jesus Christ is God`s only Son & He is called the firstborn. This is not of birth but of manifestation. Christ is the first, the pre-eminent one. It is through Christ that God`s covenant, represented by the rainbow, is fulfilled.


    Thus we can see that God the Father is revealing the authority that His Son has. He is the conqueror, with all power & dominion, the pre-eminent one over all.


    Marilyn.
     
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