Cause and Effect

Discussion in 'Fellowship Time' started by Complete, Jan 31, 2017.

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  1. Sitting in my bed this morning, I heard my husband closing a door downstairs, and at the same time my curtains fluttered. So sensitive is the movement of air that distance is covered in the blink of an eye, and like the effect of a pebble being thrown into a stream so the action in one place affects the events in another.

    The application of this is interesting to consider in regard to so many things, Isn't it? Thinking in relation to the turbulence caused, at the present time, by world events. One man in a position of power and influence, can shake the political stability of nations world-wide. Similarly within the sphere of our own much smaller sphere of influence, how careful we should be regarding our walk and witness and the use to which we apply our tongues.

    In Christ Jesus
  2. #2 Complete, Jan 31, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
    Hello again,

    Thanking the Lord for the entrance of His Word upon my mind this morning, I thought of it's influence within us, for the entrance of His Word brings light, and fills the whole of our bodies with the effect of it's radiance. The effect is peace and assurance, and a gratitude which spills over in love and praise.

    Praise God!

    'Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven' (quoted imperfectly I'm afraid, by a heart which is rejoicing in His provision ) Works flow out through us from the doctrine worked in us by the Holy Spirit.

    What a wonderful ripple effect of His making !

    In Christ Jesus
    Cturtle and adonaicole say Amen and like this.
  3. As I think about what you hve shared, He (The Holy Spirit) prompts me to remember that if we don't act on that light that He has given us, then it will just become an emotional moment in time, that will be quickly stolen from the enemy, who will try to bring about situations to steal what we just received. Just like in the parable of the sower (mark 4) says.

    It's interesting to me that with the choice to serve Him or not comes great responsibility. And every moment is a choice to receive and act upon the Word that God has so graciously sown into our hearts. To guard it with such an intense grip, that we never do let it go. The enemy will always try in any way possible through his tricks and schemes to rob us of every blessing God has in store for us.

    Only by fighting the good fight of faith, can we be sure to lay hold of every promise He has given us.

    Blessings and thank you
    AtomicSnowflake, Fish Catcher Jim and Complete says Amen and like this.
  4. Thank you for sharing these thoughts, Cturtle.
    Cturtle likes this.
  5. You should do a little research and check out Katrina dates against Gaza pullout dates. Amazing cause and effect.
  6. #6 Complete, Feb 1, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
    Hi Abdicate,

    I'm afraid that you will have to help me here, can you point me in the right direction please to make this comparison.

    * Wait I'm getting there - Katrina August 25th 2005 / Gaza strip withdrawal August 2005.
    ..Hmmmm.... I need your input now, please Abdicate

    This takes my OP into another dimension.

    Thank you.
    In Christ Jesus
  7. From my study:

    I urge you to pay attention to cause and effect, especially concerning the United States and Israel. Here is a perfect example:

    • 8 Aug 2005: U.S. pressures Israel to pull out of Gaza
    • 15 Aug 2005: Israel begins to pull out of Gaza forcing settlers out
    • 23 Aug 2005: Hurricane Katrina forms
    • 24 Aug 2005: Israel pullout completes Gaza withdrawal
    • 24 Aug 2005: U.S. pressures Israel to resume roadmap plan
    • 26 Aug 2005: Sharon faces the battle of his political life against Netanyahu
    • 26 Aug 2005: Oil hits a record high at $68/barrel
    • 29 Aug 2005: Katrina hits New Orleans - 28 levees fail (over 50 in the ensuing days)
    • 4 Jan 2006: Ariel Sharon has massive stroke leaving him in a permanent vegetative state
    The area devastated by hurricane Katrina totals 90,000 square miles encompassing parts of three states (164 square miles for every square mile of Gaza). By contrast, the whole of the British Island, comprising England, Wales and Scotland, is only 84,400 square miles. 1836 people die because of Katrina.

    Here's another example:

    • 30 Mar 2010: Netanyahu snubbed at the White House while Obama goes to dinner
    • 10 Apr 2010: Israel will not attend the Obama Nuclear Arms Summit in fears the US will force Israel
    • 19 Apr 2010: Obama and Israel: Showdown at the UN (U.S. will not rubber-stamp a veto on non-Israeli friendly votes)
    • 20 Apr 2010: Israel warns of a nuclear race in the Middle East is Iran is allowed to have the bomb
    • 21 Apr 2010: US will not attack Iran on nuclear issue, leaves Israel to make a unilateral decision, which without US support will fail
    • 21 Apr 2010: US to allow a nuclear Iran
    • 21 Apr 2010: Oil Rig explodes off coast of Louisiana, 11 killed
    • 29 Apr 2010: Obama warns Israel and PA to do nothing to stop peace process
    • 29 Apr 2010: Gulf Oil slick: Businesses Brace for the worse
    • 29 Apr 2010: Oil Slick makes landfall
    Here is yet another example:

    • 21 Jun 2010: US angry with the continued building in East Jerusalem
    • 22 Jun 2010: Israel's feeling of isolation is becoming more pronounced
    • 24 Jun 2010: Obama calls Gaza situation 'unsustainable'
    • 24 Jun 2010: A 100-yard-wide tornado with winds of at least 100 mph rips through Bridgeport causing massive damage
    There are so many examples of this, a complete book could be written on this cause-and-effect phenomena alone. This isn't restricted to the U.S. Look up the flooding and fires in Australia after their prime minister slammed Israel. The earthquake in southern Spain with the royal family also slammed Israel for the settlements. Then there's the flooding of the U.N., by hurricane Sandy, after the U.N. declared a desire for everyone to boycott Israel over the settlements. New York and New Jersey suffered greatly for being in proximity to the point the Jersey shore was decimated. new ref
  8. Hello Abdicate,

    Interesting facts, I have printed them off to look at off-line.
    I will also look at the link you have posted.

    Thank you for taking the time to put this together and enter it for our consideration.

    In Christ Jesus
  9. It's pretty dated... I wrote the book 7 years ago. I didn't get any real readers so I'm not sure if I'll update it. Thanks for the kind words. Next time an event occurs, try to find news about those involved and Israel. I think the thing that amazed me was when Australia was hit by the biggest hurricane on record. Then I read it hit directly on the prime minister's home town. Then I found how he chastized Israel for "occupying the land". After a while, you have to ask the skeptics, at what point does coincidence become real...

    Genesis 12:3
    "And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
    Smiler and From Pieces To Peace say Amen and like this.
  10. "After a while, you have to ask the skeptics, at what point does coincidence become real".

    Thank you, Abdicate, for your examples. I shall have to look into these very carefully.

    I am inclined to treat my presence here this morning as a coincidence itself, as I have recently been noticing how frequently coincidences do occur. I have an idea that they are closely coupled with the results of prayer, but then, I suppose they would be less remarkable if the two events were closely related to the same immediate cause. I won't give details, but I have found it so remarkable that incidents in my own life, over differences of more than eighty years, have suddenly merged as answers to prayer.

    Coincidences are fundamentally dependent on time, of course, so the more frequently we recognise them, the more they come together, until eventually they merge and time is totally excluded from eternity.
    Is that how we might imagine Heaven ? The outcome of prayer leading to Truth ?
    Abdicate likes this.
  11. All blessings, Abdicate,

    You have started me thinking deeply again.
    I'm finding it difficult to sort out the differences between obvious effects of causes, and the less obvious distant events I call coincidences.

    I don't want to steer the theme off course, so won't expect any response to this, but I'm thinking of Luke 13:4 and "those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?"

    Does God really cause natural disasters targeting chosen leaders ?
  12. Thanks for the kind word Smiler, and I'm glad to see you back! :)

    I don't think God "causes" anything per se. What I mean is that He's set laws, both physical and spiritual, in motion and the devil's job is to execute judgement on those that ignore His teachings. All negative things, to me, are sin based. Just as the word of God says, for the love of money is the root of all evil... 1 Tim 6:10. With sin all around us, "things" happen. So if the builders were cheap in the construction of the tower of Siloam, then people, righteous and unrighteous suffer.

    Matthew 5:45 (KJV)
    That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. ​

    What I think what happens, is that we fail to ask for God's protection (Psa 91) over us as we navigate this word of sin, rather than He allowing evil to fall on us. The sins of the world still affect us if we're not living in the Spirit. For instance, when the Spirit nudges us to do something, or not to do something and we ignore His promptings. Sometimes, bad things happen because God wants us to go and visit those in the hospital, and when we don't, so He allows us to be put there. After all, we are ambassadors and our ministry is the reconcile men to God, 2 Cor 5:17-21.

    I think the best example of this is Job. His sin was fear and doubt, Job 3:25.
  13. There was a book written in 2008 by William R. Koenig titled "Eye to Eye".

    In it he details the physical results to the USA when the USA made or did disparaging comments toward Israel or even suggested Israel give up land for peace.

    It has some really unbelievable documented facts that when the USA made those kind of demands on Israel, within 48 hours some kind of physical disaster struck the USA.

    If you have not read this book I would recommend it to you as it seems to speak to exactly what you are saying.
    Abdicate likes this.
  14. I have thought that many times as well. Would you agree that God created the whole universe and the laws of nature???

    If so, then would it also be true that most natural disasters are a result of these laws at work. Hurricanes, typhoons, and tornados are the results of divergent weather patterns colliding. Earthquakes are the result of the earth’s plate structure shifting. A tsunami is caused by an underwater earthquake.

    The Bible proclaims that Jesus Christ holds all of nature together in Colossians 1:16-17. So then, could God prevent natural disasters? IMO, Absolutely! Does God sometimes influence the weather? Again, IMO, Yes, and that has been recorded in Deuteronomy 11:17 and James 5:17.

    Numbers 16:30-34 shows us that God causes natural disasters as a judgment against sin. The book of Revelation describes many events which could definitely be described as natural disasters (Revelation chapters 6, 8, and 16).

    I for one do not believe in coincidences. I believe that God has a plan and is in the middle of working that plan. That speaks to the Sovereignty of God, IMO.
    Complete likes this.
  15. I don't happen to agree with you here. I believe that all of these things that are happening is the result of the curse.

    When God passed by Elijah, it says He was not in the wind, the earthquake or the fire (1 Kings 19:11-12).
    And in acts when we see an earthquake chains of the whole prison fell off. In Exodus 3 when the Bush was on fire and God was speaking to Moses, the Bush did not burn up.

    I believe if men and women of God will do their part to resist natural disasters, by praying against them they will have to go back to where they came from. I've seen it and experienced it happening.

    God has no power over these things, because He has given men and women of the earth the authority and dominion. We just need to exercise that authority. (Genesis 1:26-28, Ps 115:16).

  16. #16 Major, Mar 7, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
    I am gald you disagree because I must say the exact same thing to your thought.

    You said................
    "God has no power over these things, because He has given men and women of the earth the authority and dominion. We just need to exercise that authority."

    I believe that you are promoting the teaching of "Dominion Mandate". Dominion Mandate is a denomination teaching and not a Bible doctrine. Now maybe I am wrong, but that is what it seems that you have been saying. If not then my apologies but if I am incorrect, however there is no Bible verses available for you to post in support of that.

    The theology comes from Genesis 1 where Adam was given dominion over the earth, and he was created in the image of God.

    But Colossians 1:16 says.........
    "He (Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

    IMO you are trying to give man a whole lot more ability than the Bible says he has. The Bible says.........................

    It is God, who controls the weather .............(Exodus 9:29; Psalm 135:6-7; Jeremiah 10:13).
    God controls the skies and the rain............. (Psalm 77:16-19).
    God controls the wind ..................................(Mark 4:35-41; Jeremiah 51:16).
    God upholds and sustains the universe .......(Hebrews 1:3).
    God has power over the clouds.................... (Job 37:11-12, 16).
    God has power over lightning....................... (Psalm 18:14).
    God has power over all nature...................... (Job 26).

    It seems to me that the Bible is very clear on this and says that God is in control of all things, including the weather. Through His providence, God provides for and protects His children, but He also ordains or permits Satan, demons, and mankind to exercise their limited will to commit acts of sin, evil, and wickedness.

    Earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados, floods, hail, wild fires, volcanoes, meteor strikes, etc. do not demonstrate an obedience to man’s reign or will. Natural disasters always put mankind at their mercy. These things demonstrate occurrences that force man to respond to them as best as man can and not the other way around. In the present natural environment, conditions are adverse and man’s ingenuity sometimes overcomes, but sometimes it does not. Man is killed by acts of nature every year.

    Now, me being an old country boy from Alabama, let me say to you that if you test out what you are not do it with a mother bear with cubs. You can tell that bear all day long who has dominion over her and who is in charge, but in the end she is going to eat you.
    Complete likes this.
  17. I wrote those things in my study 17 years ago. I've not read his book, but I read the site at least once a day.
  18. It comes down to this:

    Genesis 12:3 (KJV)
    And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.​
  19. Here's something more recent:

    • Israel-Palestinian conflict: 72 Nations at the Summit in France warns against unilateral actions, 15 January 2017
    • Paris Peace Conference Spectacular Failure With No Visible Results, January 16, 2017 , 1:30 pm
    • Icy weather in Europe causes more hardship and chaos, 13 January 2017 (Electricity supplies to nearly 350,000 homes in France were temporarily cut, while severe flood warnings were in place on England's east coast. "Montenegro, Serbia, the republic of Macedonia and Bulgaria were much colder than normal, with temperatures as low as -15C over five consecutive days," the WMO said. "The surrounding countries - Italy, Greece, Turkey and Romania were 5 to 10C colder than normal for the time of year." In France, where coastal winds reached 146km/h (90.5mph), a woman died when a tree was blown over near the Mediterranean resort of Nice. Another woman in Albania was found dead outside her home in freezing conditions in the southern town of Saranda. Drivers in Germany have been warned of treacherous conditions on some roads, because of snow and black ice. Three motorists have died in crashes in Bavaria. Meanwhile, flood defences have been reinforced on Belgium's coast. The cold snap across Europe has claimed more than 65 lives.)
    Interesting article about the conference:
  20. People think that Jesus dying and rising from the dead was the beginning of the end of the world. But that has been over 2,000 years ago. But with wars, famine, terrorism, really it is getting closer to that way.
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