Catholicism- The Truth In The Practices

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Christian_Nelo, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. I was born Catholic but now Christian. It's great that I see both worlds as it gives you a choice rather than being born into something through tradition where you are submitted into a single path. Your path to Christ must be a personal choice as well as the relationship.

    You must know that the power of Jesus Christ to save you from your sins is unimaginable, That all your sins have been paid in full and can save you in any form of sin as long as you embrace him as your Savior truthfully. He is the only way and no other way can you enter the Kingdom of GOD but through him. Once you believe in this and you have a personal relationship with him, You are Saved. I believe even Catholics will be saved, If they truly believe in their heart Jesus is the only way. I even think Judas is saved if he did truly believe in Jesus as his only Savior as he did repent and acknowledged his sin (Matthew 27:3-4). We are sinners even until the day we die and do you think there is a sin the Jesus haven't paid for? Jesus have built 1 bridge to enter the Kingdom for all of us, and it's up to us to cross it.

    John 14:6 "“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

    As a common Catholic, We know that we love GOD above everything else, accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and as well as the rosary where we been thought since childhood by parents and teachers. Being Catholic is much more than being that if you really got in to it. If just know what our practices really mean but we really don't...

    We almost "can't" because Catholic practices aren't from the bible (which the most reliable scripture we could obtain as common people) but bases on somewhere else such as Catechism, Dogmas, and books of various Vatican versions which only Priests, Bishop, Cardinals, and the Pope read (even write) as they dictate or permit the only right way to worship of GOD.

    Catholic practices are based and quoted on these books as we have other references rather than the bible. The Holy bible contains the word of GOD and the teachings of Jesus Christ. The Catholic books contains our practices, life of saints, veneration of the Blessed Mother (may include but not limited).

    Roman Catholic Church had created Purgatory which is found in many Catholic books except the Holy Bible and spread across the world as Vatican deemed it reality. In 1214 St. Dominic De Guzman claimed to have seen the Blessed Mother and spoke of the rosary. In 1460 Blessed Alanus De Rupe also seen the Blessed Mother and created the prayer of the rosary soon after.

    The Blessed Mother played a big role with the Catholic Purgatory. As Catholic teachings say that we can be saved by doing numerous good works thought to us since childhood and those who fail goes to purgatory as sign of GOD's mercy and those who are evil goes to hell. Catholics pray the rosary through the Blessed Mother for their dead loves ones for them to be saved & removed from purgatory and into the kingdom of God. Soon Catholic pray to rosary for various events or situation through the Blessed Mother.

    Note: Catholics don't pray "to" Mary but "through" Mary

    Remember Jesus Christ our Savior is the only way the Kingdom of GOD or Do you have any other savior or any other way to enter the Kingdom of GOD besides him and was said true by man but not by GOD?

    The bridge of Jesus is right there leading to the gates heaven... You don't have to jump down the hole because someone told you and plead for his Mom to get you out and enter a secret tunnel leading into the Kingdom of GOD according to a secret document given by someone telling you it's legit. You got to be a very adventurous & talented ninja to pull that stunt off.

    I'm sorry for being like that... but I think you just have to read the bible for the truth and... no need for complicated maneuvers ... This will lead you to the bridge of Christ and it only requires you to Cross it.

    Before we enter his home you need to be his real friend 1st or he might say he never knew you. How to be his real friend? Well it's not complicated... Just do what real friends do ;). (Matthew 7:21-23)


  2. #2 KingJ, Dec 17, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
    I am glad to hear you are free and have come closer to Jesus!! John 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

    However, I don't think its right to jump on Catholics with their belief in Purgatory.

    One can be forgiven for thinking such as there is scripture like Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? I googled that Matt 12:32 and 1 Cor 3:15 are used to support it, but that the best support came from the book of the Maccabees (2 Macc 12:43-45) which was cut out by the protestants during the reformation.

    Purgatory is fine in my books. Unlike annihilation and universal salvation ;).

    I must read up more on that 'praying through Mary'. I don't see a problem in respecting saints and Mary. But prayer 'through' (n).
  3. So how much can one make praying folks out of this purgatory? For my notes only of course.

  4. So what influenced your transition from Catholicism?
  5. Not to sure about paying dollars for penance. I really would like to hear more on that from Catholics.

    However, an atheist could just as easily ask us that question on our belief in Hell. Hell certainly motivates many to attend church and pay their tithe.
  6. Combing some Catholic sites, it seems 5 to 10 bucks called indulgence could be paid but no required like it was way back.
    Way back you had to pay or your loved one suffered longer.

    Let's see, 10 a day at 5-10 dollars.............. Not worth the money. I thought I was on to something here.

    I never heard of hell making people pay tithes, I tithe but I don't think of Hell. Never heard that concept before.

  7. :confused: You have never heard this type of sermon...? "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse" (Mal.3:10). A tenth of your income belongs to God and if you don't give it you are a God robber according to the Bible (Mal. 3:8). If you are not faithful in giving your tithe, God will curse you (Mal. 3:9) and not "rebuke the devourer" (Mal. 3:11)." "You WILL pay a tithe one way or the other, possibly through sickness, hardship, lost job, lost home, or other means if you don't give it to God." "You cannot expect God to bless you if you do not tithe." "No matter who else you owe or how much you are in debt, God's tithe must come first." All your tithe belongs here in the local church." Will a man rob God and get by with it"? "Never, never, YOU WILL PAY!"

    Sure doesn't sound like a guy not paying his tithe is making it to heaven ;).
  8. Google says the Purgatory vs Money debate is old and debunked. The Catholic church did not do it for money. During the dark ages however...there was lots of abuse. Interesting read here:
  9. And this is one of them!
  10. #11 ixoye_8, Dec 17, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  11. let me get this straight .. you are saying the power of redemption rests on believing Calvin's misinterpretation of scripture which created the OSAS unscriptural dogma ???
    and that you ARE SAVED NOW, when Jesus says WE WILL BE SAVED IF WE ENDURE TO THE END ??? .. and how very kind of you to say Catholic's who do what scripture tells them they need to do (believe, repent & obey) to gain salvation will be saved (not is saved like you) .. the words bigotry and hypocrisy comes to mind ..
  12. Luther adhered to the Marian decrees of the ecumenical councils and dogmas of the church. He held fast to the belief that Mary was a perpetual virgin and the Theotokos or Mother of God.[4] Special attention is given to the assertion that Luther, some three-hundred years before the dogmatization of the Immaculate Conception by Pope Pius IX in 1854, was a firm adherent of that view. Others maintain that Luther in later years changed his position on the Immaculate Conception, which at that time was undefined in the Church; however, he maintained belief in Mary's lifelong sinlessness.[5] Regarding the Assumption of Mary, he stated, that the Bible did not say anything about it. Important to him was the belief that Mary and the saints do live on after death. The centerpiece of Luther's Marian views was his 1521 Commentary on the Magnificat in which he extolled the magnitude of God's grace toward Mary and her own legacy of Christian instruction and example demonstrated in her canticle of praise.

    Martin Luther said:
    She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man's understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child.... Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God.... None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God."[10] This belief was officially confessed by Lutherans in their Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, article VIII.24:

    Some Lutherans believe that Mary did not have other children, and did not have any marital relations with Joseph,[12] maintaining that the brothers mentioned in the Gospels were cousins.[13] This is consistent with Luther's lifelong acceptance of the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary. Jaroslav Pelikan noted that the perpetual virginity of Mary was Luther's lifelong belief,[14] and Hartmann Grisar, a Roman Catholic biographer of Luther, concurs that "Luther always believed in the virginity of Mary, even post partum, as affirmed in the Apostles’ Creed, though afterwards he denied her power of intercession, as well as that of the saints in general, resorting to many misinterpretations and combated, as extreme and pagan, the extraordinary veneration which the Catholic Church showed towards Mary."[15] For this reason even a rigorously conservative Lutheran scholar like Franz Pieper (1852–1931) refuses to follow the tendency among Protestants to insist that Mary and Joseph had marital relations and children after the birth of Jesus. It is implicit in his Christian Dogmatics that belief in Mary's perpetual virginity is the older and traditional view among Lutherans.

    In the course of his life, Martin Luther made contradictory statements about Mary's immaculate conception. For example, in 1532 Luther says that Mary was conceived in sin, in 1544 he says: 'God has formed the soul and body of the Virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that she is without all sins, for she has conceived and borne the Lord Jesus.'[19] Elsewhere, "All seed except Mary was vitiated [by original sin]."[20]

    Throughout his lifetime, Luther referred to Mary as the "Queen of Heaven", but he warned against people using the term too much.[22]

    Before 1516, Luther's belief that Mary is a mediatrix between God and humanity was driven by his fear of Jesus being the implacable judge of all people.[23] "The Virgin Mary remains in the middle between Christ and humankind. For in the very moment he was conceived and lived, he was full of grace. All other human beings are without grace, both in the first and second conception. But the Virgin Mary, though without grace in the first conception, was full of grace in the second ... whereas other human beings are conceived in sin, in soul as well as in body, and Christ was conceived without sin in soul as well as in body, the Virgin Mary was conceived in body without grace but in soul full of grace."[24]

    Luther states in his Magnificat, that one should pray to Mary, so God would give and do, through her will, what we ask. But, he adds, it is God’s work alone.[5] Some interpret his Magnificat as a personal supplication to Mary, but not as a prayerful request for mediation. An important indicator of Luther’s views on the veneration of Mary are not only his writings but also approved practices of Lutherans during his lifetime. The singing of the Magnificat in Latin was maintained in many German Lutheran communities. The Church Order (Kirchenordnung) of Brandenburg, Bugenhagen Braunschweig and other cities and districts decreed by the royal heads of the Lutheran Church, maintained three Marian feast days, to be observed as public holidays.[5] It is known that Martin Luther approved of this.

    He also approved of keeping Marian paintings and statues in the Churches.[12] Luther did, however, say that "Mary prays for the church".[25]

    it seems the Lutheran Protestant Rosarys are the same as Catholic ones ..
    while the Anglican Episcopal Rosarys are smaller ..
  13. Does it matter what man labels each branch of Christianity? It seems to me that too many churches get hung up on the less vital details. Does it really matter what you believe as long as you hold to the core requirements of salvation? Catholic is just a word that describes a particular school of thought that is common in a large group of people, just like Baptist, Lutheran, etc. What truly matters is our relationship with God, and our acceptance of his gift of grace, not the label that we place on ourselves. Just saying....
  14. Solas ..

    Luther's idea that the Bible was perspicuous to the average reader. Scripture, it seemed, was plain to every man—provided he was a trained exegete and agreed with Luther.

    Geneva under Calvin’s influence controlled its citizens’ lives, including their private lives, well beyond what the medieval Church did. The individual Christian in the Church of Geneva was “free” to interpret the Bible for himself, provided he interpreted it exactly as Calvin did.

    Pierre Ameaux, a member of the city council, who had criticized Calvin as a preacher of false doctrine. The council told Ameaux to retract his statement, but Calvin wanted a harsher punishment. Ameaux was forced to go through town dressed only in a shirt, with a torch in hand.

    Ameaux’ fate was a mere embarrassment; the embryonic freethinker Jacques Gruet was executed for criticizing Calvin, for blasphemy and for protesting the stringent demands of Calvin’s Geneva. He was tortured and beheaded. Calvin also got Jerome Bolsec banished for the Frenchman’s disagreement with Calvin regarding predestination, thus proving that, while Geneva was a haven for Protestants throughout Europe who agreed with Calvin, it could be oppressive for those who did not.

    But the most celebrated case is that of Michael Sevetus, who didn’t get off as lightly as Bolsec. The Spanish physician-writer took it upon himself to reformulate the doctrine of the Trinity in what were essentially Gnostic categories. But Sevetus made the mistake of sending Calvin an advance copy, which led, by a rather Byzantine route, to Calvin tipping off the Catholic magistrates in Vienna that the heretical Sevetus was practicing medicine in their city. That brought the apparatus of the Inquisition down on him. Sevetus managed to escape and wound up, in all places, Geneva, en route to Naples. Calvin had him arrested, tried and sentenced to death. As an act of mercy, Calvin requested that Sevetus be beheaded, instead of burned, but in this case Calvin’s request was not honored.
  15. EXACTLY .. doctrine does not save anyone .. only (as you say) core requirements of salvation can ..

    I agree 100% with you .. I see 500 years of stones being thrown & thrown back ..
    God must shake His head and say "did I not tell them go and learn what compassion means" ???
  16. lol yeah, I know what you mean.
  17. #18 Man-ofGod, Dec 18, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
    @ixoye_8 There is truth to what you say on forgiveness vs being saved. Saved is yet future. The bible teaches that forgiveness, peace and assurance is right now. Incidentally, even perfect obedience is a gift from God.
  18. I think many sincere Catholics will be saved, God will be just in his judgement (Acts 17:30). But there is a deception in Catholicism that threatens that grace God gives us, a saved by works type of mentality, where people do not rely on Gods grace and power to overcome but their own will power.
  19. There is definitely dirt on Calvin, Luther and virtually every man of prominence, Catholic or non-Catholic (all have sinned and fallen short). Therefore, no one is claiming that Calvin was perfect or his doctrine was perfect, nor is that claim made for Luther. As I noted in a separate post on another thread, there is a gradual coming into truth that these reformers provided, each contributing light to the movement.

Share This Page