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Carnality and Spirituality Defined

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Noblemen, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. Carnality Defined

    No single word in the Christians vocabulary causes so much consternation as the word, carnality. It is in enigma to worldly church members, and they discredit vehemently because they are not sure what it means. It is a Mystery to the ecclesiastical powerful for they cannot see carnal motivation if they are successful, believing that the criterion of religion is success. The word has become a labeling and criticizing word for the ultra – spiritual to brand those who disagree with them. It is a word presenting the apex problem to the dedicated believer. To the unsaved sinner, the word has no meaning. To the backslider, the word is reminiscent of another life. To the self – centered church worker, the word is ignored. To those with spiritual knowledge, the word presents the outcome of the eternal conflict. It would be impossible for anyone to clearly define or explain all the details of carnality, for carnality -of necessity- is only determined and defined according to one's spiritual knowledge. The babe in Christ thinks little or nothing of its truth, while a mature, knowledgeable believer thinks of little else. There are innumerable levels and degrees of understanding between these two.

    Defining carnality becomes all the greater problem because it seems, on the one hand – the practical side – that a believer may be saved, baptized in the Holy Spirit, and receive answers to prayers, and still be carnal, first Corinthians 3:1, while on the other hand the Bible declares: "To be carnally minded is death," Romans 8:6. What a strange dilemma that a believer can possess the vast inheritance of a world to come and still be so bound to the present world that he constantly stands in defeat. Stranger still is the fact that believers can be carnal and, at the same time, Carnality can be death. Can life and death abide together at the same time? To understand this question there are three facts concerning carnality which should be noted.

    Earthly Motivation

    1) I'll just do one for now.
    The carnal believer is always pulled down by a power he cannot cope with. The center of gravity for his life is the earth. He may talk of heavenly things at times and may even have a strong desire to go there, but the influence of heavenly things is much weaker than the influence the earthly things, this influence determines his motivation. The carnal believer is like the defeated man in Romans seven. When he would do good, evil (earthly things and influences) was with him. The carnal believer seldom enters into the real Christian life because he can never disassociate himself from earthly things. His reasoning is always faulty because his motivations are wrong. When the carnal man buys something, the item is bought with money earned by labor.
    If the carnal man has even a degree of spirituality, he will give God the glory for the earning power and thing bought. But then motivation enters.
    Now that the thing is bought, he has to give it time, energy and attention to keep the investment real and profitable. Soon the thing controls him rather than him controlling the thing. He enters his Carnal relationship, however, in the name of the Lord. He says, God gave this to me, he expects me to take care of it. God expects me to use it and get pleasure out of it or He would not have given it to me. So, with such reasoning, a thing -perhaps actually given by God– becomes the object of earthly motivation. No believer can be earthly motivated and overcome. No believer can appease his Conscience by blaming God for the things by which he is controlled.
     
    Ranabanana, Fish Catcher Jim and Abdicate says Amen and like this.
  2. Reminds me of what Adam said to the Lord God. He blamed God, because he (God) was the one who gave Eve to be with Adam.

    Gen 3:12.. And the man (Adam) said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
     
    Major and Noblemen say Amen and like this.
  3. Yea, looking for a little wiggle room
     
  4. Lot was a carnal man, though he was counted righteous. For he walked by sight and by his ow reasoning.
    The 10 spies were carnal men for they too saw and understood things by sight.
    They preached a message to a people who were of the same mind.
    Paul was speaking to Christians when he said "ye are yet carnal"
    To be BORN again is but the start and is as it were to get out of Egypt.
    Tor be spiritually minded then is to allow God to get Egypt out of you.
    How you may ask?
    To be transformed by the renewal of your minds,
    How?
    By the Word of God and the Spirit of God. To see things as God sees it.
    All temptations are designed to get your acting in the flesh to see and do things according to your own perceptions and reasoning.
    Adam and Eve fell because they believed not the truth,and did that which wax right or good in their own eyes.
    For eve "saw"r that the tree was good to eat and she reasoned thus "it would make her wise"
    I repent of what we have done is one thing,but we must come to the place where we repent of what we are.
    And conform to what the scriptures say in very truth"a new creation"in Christ Jesus and our minds be brought into subjection to the mind if Christ even as our lives are to be also.
    The great curse in the church today is that people are to about being BORN............again,but very little else.
    To subject the scriptures to man's thinking rather than man's thinking subject to GOD and while lip service is given to the supremacy of Scripture, more credence is given to ones own understanding of Greek and Hebrew than to lean upon and trust the Lord.
    The proliferation of versions of the Bible simply encouraging every one doing or interpretating scripture according to their own reasoning and perceptions. .
    The result?the vast majority are as Lot.while counted righteous,was blind to the hour in which he lived and the danger he was in.
    Or like the 5 foolish virgins who while rightly awaiting the coming of the Groom (not like the world and the unsaved) have a false expectation that to be BORNagain is Al that is needed and while they have their lamps lit.do mot have their vessels filled.and so are not found either pre are ready or recognisable as the Bride.and failed to enter in because of unbelief. For like the vast majority who came out of Egypt believed the wrong message.

    In Christ
    Gerald
     
    Fish Catcher Jim and Noblemen say Amen and like this.
  5. Any time you bring human reasoning or understanding in you are acting as a carnal Christian. That is why many believers live a defeated life.
    God Bless
    James W
     
    Major, Cturtle, Abdicate and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  6. Two examples in the Bible are Thomas who had carnal faith and Abraham who had God faith.

    God bless
     
    Major, Noblemen and Fish Catcher Jim says Amen and like this.
  7. Carnality has nothing to do with faith. According to what faith "IS"
    None of the disciples believed that Jesus was going to rise from the dead.Despite the many times the Lord had told them.
    If they had they would have been waiting for him at the grave on the third day.
    Thus each was convinced by the apearance of the Lord even then the Lord had to prove by eating and drinking that he was not a ghost but "flesh and BONE".
    Mary was convinced by the way He called her by name.
    The two on the road to Emaus were convinced in part by the Lord breaking open the scriptures unto them "starting at Moses" but even then they knew Him not untill he broke bread before their eyes .
    Up the His death they knew the Lord only after the flesh .
    After was another matter entirely and changed a frightened band of disciples into an unstoppable force .
    It is always the same .
    Throughout the scriptures you have people who had HEARD of God but it was not untill they had a close encounter with the living God were their lives transformed and their and others circumstances also.
    Many have HEARD of the Lord but have never met him .Yet they have faith and believe .
    and are saved or BORNagain.
    But each person must have at some point a close encounter with the risen Lord.
    Gidion had heard of God but untill he met the Lord and the communications lines were not only opened but established did the circumstances of his own life and that of the nation changed for the better b.
    Job had heard of God and it had so transformed his life that God could point to him as an example of a good servant of God.
    Yet there came a time when God began to reveal himself through creation and Job despite his great integrity and faith had to confess "I repent in dust and ashes " For I have heard of thee ,but now mine eyes seeth theee"

    in Christ
    gerald
     
    Noblemen likes this.
  8. Far better to give at least two examples to explain an assertion than to leave people questioning what you mean .or not understanding.

    in Christ
    gerald
     
    Major and Noblemen say Amen and like this.
  9. Greetings Gerald,
    Brother I mean no disrespect here but this is far from any kind of assurtion for it is fact.
    Let me make it very simple for you.
    You have Gods ways and then you have mans ways
    Any spirit filled Christian who reacts or operates through or with or by human understanding or reasoning or simply put traditional thinking has become a carnal minded Chritian.

    This same man if not born again would simply be a natural man but being born of the spirit and thinking as any human being would is being a carnal minded christians.

    These believers are not strong in their faith - they waiver back and forth. They are moved by fear or doubt to some point and simply can not stand unchanging on Gods word.
    I dont feel you need fancy words or long winded sayings to clearly allow some one to see or hear what is being said. I beleive this is why we find these words many times over - if you have ears - let them hear.

    I have had my eyes opened unto the fact that Gods word is simple if you dont question it and listen to what He is saying and put it into practice. Man makes Gods word much harder and more hidden then it really is by simply not accepting His word for what He means and by rationalizing it with their own beliefs or understanding.

    Need More....Isaiah 55:8-9
    8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
    9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    These two simple lines of scripture are so simple but yet so very profound -
    This is what they do Not say - we can not think like God or act like God
    However the Truth found in these two simple lines of profound scripture paint the picture clearly and you could say it is talking to a carnal minded Chritian at that. Why ?

    Because God is telling us our thinking is off. We are not thinking like Him or another words as He has commanded us in His most Holy Written Word. We are not operating as He has shown us to operate......However if we will change the way we are thinking (unto His ways) then we will begin to Do Things His Way and see God Results.

    Thats what I know to be true and simply shared it with you
    So God Bless my Brother we will talk again another
    James W
     
    Major, Noblemen and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  10. Carnal thinking is the opposite of faith thinking
    to mix carnal thinking with ones faith has begun to pervert ones fiath and it's ability to produce the desired results. I think your view on carnal minded might be a tad off track.
    God Bless my friend
    James W
     
    Major, Noblemen and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  11. Greeting brother Gerald,

    Thomas when presented with the testimony of Jesus's appearance to the others made a very stubborn decision to not believe what they said. He chose to only believe if he could "see" our Lord's hands and thrust his hand into the Lord's side, and when Jesus appeared to him, He told him to stop being faithless. So just as you spoke of lot who walked by sight and his own reasoning....Thomas did the same.

    When we look at Abraham....God showed him the stars and the sand and He believed God and took Him at His Word. He did not rely on his own reasoning, Romans says that he didn't even consider his own body, nor the deadness of Sarah's womb, but believed and trusted God.

    Therefore two examples of carnal vs spiritual faith. True Bible hope (faith) believes God and takes Him at His Word without having to "see" it in the natural.

    God bless
     
    Major, Noblemen and Fish Catcher Jim says Amen and like this.
  12. I love it! It is so very true. Thanks for sharing and you're spot on! :D
     
    Noblemen likes this.
  13. Appreciate the kudos
     
    Abdicate likes this.
  14. Don't we all start out as "carnal" thinking Christians, and then as we progress in faith, and in the renewing of our minds that "carnality" subsides? Are we not in the process of "putting off the old man", and "putting on the new man?" We have all been there, done that.
     
    Angela333, Major, Euphemia and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  15. That is the way it is to work but you know as well as me that far to many Christians refuse to allow the full change into their lives. If it were not so then - every single born again spirit filled Believer would be living as the head and not the tail and living in divine health and would actually agree to what is written in Gods word. No - this does not happen for far to many people.
     
    CCW95A likes this.
  16. Maybe there are certain parts of the clothing line they don't like to put on. Trials and tribulations have this way of discovering what parts of the new man that just does not work, and if they don't work we change into something more comfortable and less offensive to our self's. The problem with this thinking is we don't try faith on as a piece of clothing, we work faith, and if it does not work it is because we are doing something wrong.
     
    Cturtle and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  17. Well you know they do have to stay connected with the worldy fashion and fit in !!
    I heard some folks not to all a long ago claiming they tried this "Faith Stuff" and it does not work - truth be told - Faith tried them and they failed!!
    God Bless my Friend and Merry Christams
    James
     
    Cturtle and CCW95A say Amen and like this.
  18. IMO we are trying to put off the "old man" but we never do. It is a lifelong process which we take to the grave. The "old man" or the sin nature is never able to be defeated.

    I realize many do not agree with this but we don’t lose our sin nature once we receive Christ. The Bible says that sin remains in us and that a struggle with that old nature will continue as long as we are in this world. Paul bemoaned his own personal struggle in Romans 7:15–20. But we have help in the battle—divine help. The Spirit of God takes up residence in each believer and supplies the power we need to overcome the pull of the sin nature within us so that we can say that we are not controlled by sin.
     
  19. Amen, we are a new creation, like from swine who love the mud transformed into sheep. The sheep will still end up in the mud throughout it's life, but it's reaction to the mud is not the same as the pig's. Like Paul, the sheep hates the mud, yet will still end up muddy.


    The lost man has no war with sin, he is a slave to sin. The saved man has an ongoing war with sin, and will always struggle with sin.
     
    Major likes this.
  20. So if you learn how to walk in the spirit you will still struggle with sin?
    Hmmm if the spirit be the spirit of God then the struggle shall be gone. It becomes like breathing and you dont struggle to breath unless something is amiss - so it is with sin when you learn to walk in the spirit of God.
    God Bless
    James
     
    Cturtle likes this.

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