Can Someone Help This Make Sense?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by thorarkin, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. ive been studying the bible off and on for the last couple years, and its kind of like a remote control. i took it apart, but i cant seem to put it back together. id like to know if my issues can be solved.

    to start off id like to bring up something odd. yhwh is all loving, all powerful, and all knowing, and he also has a plan. my question is why does he make us pay for sins that he put in the plan to begin with?
  2. I'm not of the Christian perspective, but I also share your question about their doctrine.

    As far as reading the Bible and having problems, I can relate. I don't know if your issues will ever be fully solved, but all I can say is to be honest with yourself about what you find makes sense to follow and do. Don't lie to yourself, and don't accept a comfortable inconsistency over a harsh truth. Whatever you choose, make sure it is the realest (is that a word? haha) decision you can make.
  3. I would like to split the sentence into two (if you don’t mind, or if there will be changes in the original statement, just say so)

    1. Why make us pay for our sins?
    2. Why there is sin to begin with?

    1. Why make us pay for our sins?
    It is just….. secular proof is around us: civil laws : man in his wisdom: knows man is accountable for his doings.

    2. Why there is sin to begin with?
    I have idea why there is law: because of sins…..
    But why there is sin to begin with?
    I thought you're reading the bible, it is in the first book…..
  4. Yahweh did not put sin in the mix, Yes, when He created man He knew he would sin but if he creates man without the possibility of sin, the choice to sin and shun God or to love God and shun sin could not exist. Had God made man not able to choose, man would not have been able to love and love is the only reason for the Angels and man to exist. Aside from loving fellowship, God is in need for nothing.
    rleta, Fadingman and KingJ says Amen and like this.
  5. Hi

    As you mentioned He is 'loving, powerful, all knowing' but you failed to mention the other definitions of God. He is also 'impartial Acts 10:34 (not partial), good Psalms 136:1, just, fair Psalms 25:8, patient, longsuffering Jonah 4:2 and not wanting any to perish 1 Tim 2:4.

    I have to be pedantic on this as so many who have not got a spiritual revelation of Jesus as Peter did in Matt 16:16-17 and Paul states in 1 Cor 12:3 can so easily draw the wrong picture of God in their minds. If we do not know God by the spirit, we must use all the definitions / all scripture of Him before we attempt to answer any question / pass judgement on Him. 'Loving' for many a warped mind excludes impartiality.

    So now we can ask...How does a good, loving, impartial, all knowing, slow to anger, desires that all come to Him 1 Tim 2:4 and who gave His life for us John 3:16 (greatest possible act of love John 15:13) justify making people pay for sins? Clearly it is something we bring upon ourselves. We are accountability for our actions simply from being the creation we are (below angels, far above monkeys). Which is why Jesus was planned before the foundations of the world 1 Peter 1:20.

    If we look at our free will fore-runners the angels. We see that their punishment for sins is both eternal banishment and a suffering that is still coming Mark 1:24 when they are all sent to the lake of fire.

    Regarding Hell….God does not force anyone to go to heaven = Good God. God forces some to go to heaven = bad God. God forces some to go to hell = bad God. God makes a place for those who do not want to be with Him = good God. God one-day takes some out of hell and puts them in heaven when their free will chose to reject Him = over-riding free will = bad God.

    Regarding 'suffering' in hell…... This is the real issue most battle with. Will there be suffering, yes. Best indicator for me is that Jesus suffered. God has got a law in place on the wages of sin that even He abided by and took upon Himself for us. If we are not covered by the sacrifice / blood of Jesus we will in some way pay in suffering for our sin.

    But now even on suffering, before we assume the worst about God….lets NOT forget the definitions of God. We need grasp that even in the suffering God will remain, good , just and impartial. Does this mean that suffering will be temporal? Maybe. Does this mean people will go to heaven after it, no! That is the real issue that all need to realize / have sink in immediately!!!! Rejecting God = rejecting God! Accepting God = accepting God.
  6. Who are you man, to question God? God made you so he can do anything he wants with you.
  7. Today, the vast majority of people get angry when they hear on the news any judge letting the guilty go free. The public wants to see justice done. Any yet, most of those same people expect God to be both good and at the same time act like a corrupt judge. This is illogical. Sin must be paid for, otherwise God is not good.
    KingJ likes this.

  8. The part of His plan that you aren't recognizing is...we are given choices as well as forgiveness of sins. This flesh life is to prove us so we must ask am I doing?

    Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.​
  9. What do you mean, "Why does he make us pay for sins?" What sins have you been paying for?
  10. Just keep in the word and don't give up.
  11. God gave us free will that is why there is sin in the world, Jesus paid for all our sins, so I think the only thing to do is have some faith that He loves you and will carry you through whatever you are going through.
    Silk likes this.
  12. The place to start is to piece together what God has told us about himself and what has happened in history. (Always liked that word after someone showed me that it is really (history) His-story.) He is all loving and all powerful. Obviously, He wanted to share this with others. He does not want pre-programmed robots always answering a predictable response. I think we can all understand how empty an existence that would be. So, it is easy to see that He would want other beings to interact with who would have original thought and, hence, free will...the ability to make choices of their own. One example I could give is if you ask people to quote you their favorite verse in the bible. You will get overrun with John 3:16 and Romans 8:28 and a few others. Yes, they are among my favorites as well, but after a while you would like something original or different.
    So now, God creates angels. One thing we know is of the angels He created, 1/3 revolted and rejected God. I would think that was a painful experience. Now He would want to create more loving, free will beings, but in a different way. A way to guarantee, or at least make it far more likely, to not have another of these revolts in heaven. So, He creates this universe and this earth to place His creation. He knows they will have trouble with their free will, so He has a plan for them. God decides to make a way for them to prove their loyalty by needing faith in Him to be allowed to be with Him for all time. He, himself, will pay for the sins of the faithful and make it possible for mankind to be with Him and in this way have a faithful, loyal group of beings with which to share in all this love for eternity.
    This is a simplified explanation, but hopefully helps in answering why things are like they are.

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