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Can Someone Explain To Me The Significance Of Cain And Abel?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Tainted Scrolls, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. So after reading chapter 4 and really praying about it, I believe that Eden was a physical place on earth.

    I have a lot of questions about Cain and Abel though...And I have no idea how to feel about them.


     
  2. What questions? The only significant issue that stands out is their sacrifices. Cain disobeyed / defied God whereas Abel obeyed God.

    I know that many assumptions are made about them. So you need to ask the specific question / issue you battling with.
     
  3. Yeah, I guess your question seemed a little vague. The short answer is that it is a recount of obeying and disobeying God and the consequences of the latter.

    In the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), it says in paragraph 2259 (I had to look this up):

    "In the account of Abel's murder by his brother Cain, Scripture reveals
    the presence of anger and envy in man, consequences of original sin, from the
    beginning of human history. Man has become the enemy of his fellow man. God
    declares the wickedness of this fratricide..."

    Not sure how much further you're looking into this than that, but this is all I can contribute ;)
     
  4. #1. Obedience.

    Abel brought the right sacrifice as he was told and Cain refused to do so.

    #2. It is about a Second chance!

    God told Cain, "If you do well shalt thou not be accepted".
     
  5. Maybe with a touch of sin consequence, mercy, forgiveness and possible salvation mixed in:

    Genesis 4:
    9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
    10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
    (Punishment for disobedience, rebellion, murder)
    13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
    14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
    (Crying out to the Lord)
    15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. (Mercy, protection, -salvation?- future planning?)
    16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
    17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
     
  6. Agreed.
     
  7. And to go a little deeper, Cain and Abel lived in the second dispensation of God's dealings with man, the dispensation of "conscience," very briefly, God was showing us and them that man cannot live by his conscience, hence eliminating the argument that man can live with other men by the goodness that supposedly reigns in his conscience.

    Gene
     
  8. Agreed!

    Good to see you are still with us Gene!! I have missed your impute as it is always Biblically sound and does not rely on personal opinions.
     
  9. Cain and Abel are pretty much representative of legalism and heart felt worship.
    One did his duty willingly with gusto and the other unwillingly and sparingly.
    One was a goat and one was a sheep.
     
  10. I agree....Note that Abel took the lamb, killed and dressed it for the symbolic offering (a type of Calvary, IMO)....Where was this mentioned in the Bible beforehand?
     
  11. TS,

    Abel brought an animal from his flock, Cain brought offerings from his garden, Abel didn't have anything to do with creating the animal, just feed and water it, Cain had to produce his offering from the sweat of his brow, hence it represents his works (and is a type of the person that is trying to work their way into Heaven then and today), plus the ground was specifically cursed Gen 3:17 whereas the rest of creation is groaning and in pain, Rom 8:22 the result of the ground being cursed is it brought forth mutations, just look at the rose bush, the beauty of the rose, but the thorns make it difficult to pick, or the cactus for a couple of many examples, but it's rare, actually an exception to find mutations in the rest of creation. Also in what God said to Cain, "if you do well you will be accepted," shows he knew what to bring for an offering, but was in rebellion against God's Word, whereas Abel obeyed, making Abel a picture or type of the person that believes in faith in God's Word without adding any of his own works to it.

    Sheep and goats don't have any place in this story, Jesus clearly taught that the sheep were the people or nations that helped and protected His people the Jews during the last 7 years of the 490 year prophecy of Dan 9, the goats are the people or nations that didn't help them when the Anti-Christ will try to exterminate them during this time, Matt 25:31-46

    Mat 25:32 And all nations shall be gathered before Him. And He shall separate them from one another, as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats.
    Mat 25:33 And indeed He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats off the left.


    The OP admitted to have questions about Gen 4 so please don't confuse him with verses that are not relevant to this story.


    While I agree it could be seen as a picture of Jesus' substitutionary death on the cross of Calvary, in response to your question, Jesus told the Pharisees the account of Abraham ready to sacrifice Issac on Mt Moriah (toady called Gordon's Calvary or Golgotha) was the story they should of recognized and believed from their Torah.

    Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and He saw and was glad (Abraham knew he was writing prophecy).

    I hope that helps you TS and explains thing a little more clearly.

    Blessings,

    Gene
     
  12. Gene, I would say your rather convoluted explanation above, is what will confuse the OP. Mine was a generic analogy and if you are so concerned about his Op being about Gen 4, why are you bringing up Dan, Matt, John and Rom?
    What exactly do you think Abel sacrificed, a lamb or a kid? Is that a sheep or a goat? The curse was to Adam and I don't see it as being one that Genesis shows is transferred to other generations. That Cain and Abel KNEW what was right to do, is NOT hard to understand, given their parents ate from the TOKOGAE and would have passed that knowledge on to their sons.
    Sheep and goats are NOT representative of those who helped Jews, because ALL the world goes through the tribulation. The Jews will be all saved by the witness of the 144,000 male virgin believers from the 12 tribes of Israel, as depicted in Rev. 7 and 14 during the tribulation.
    What Matthew 25 is, if OFF topic, and NOT what you indicate. Please don't hijack the OPs thread. If you want to know about Matt 25 start your own thread about it.
     
  13. #13 JustPassingThru, Aug 21, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
    Oh Stan, I'm being a fool to even respond to you, but talk about confusing the OP this is so far out in left field:


    Please give us book, chapter and verse to authenticate what you have posted.

    And how can it be legalism before the law was even given?

    *****

    If you are not adding to Scripture then please give us book, chapter and verse to authenticate what you have posted.

    *******

    Stan, seen any snakes lately, do they still crawl on their bellies or are they walking upright? Do you have any kids? Was/were their births painful to you wife? Did you ever work a day in your life, was if laborious, did you ever sweat, got any weeds growing in your flower beds?

    Please give us book, chapter and verse to authenticate what you have posted.

    *****

    Please give us book, chapter and verse to authenticate what you have posted.

    *****

    So according to you Jesus doesn't know what He is talking about in Matt 25:31-32

    Please give us book, chapter and verse to authenticate what you have posted.

    *****

    Please give us book, chapter and verse to authenticate what you have posted.



    TS, younger brother, may I suggest you read and memorize Acts 17:11 so that you yourself can know for certain if what is being said is true, I'm giving you an example to follow to test whatever anyone tries to lay on you.

    Blessings,

    Gene
     
  14. NOPE........."all the world will go through the Tribulation".

    That is a personal opinion from Stan because he does not believe in the Rapture which removes all believers before the Tribulation.

    2 Corth. 15:51-58
    Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Thess. 4:13-18
    13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

    The Rapture is a CHOICE to be believed in or rejected and NOT to be argued over.
     
  15. Genesis 3:21 is the 1st mention of the blood of animals being substituted for man.

    Adam and Eve has sinned and sin is separation from God by disobedience. They disobeyed God and God could have killed them right there because the Bible says that "The wages of sin is death".

    Instead of Adam and Eve dieing physically, animals were killed by God IN PLACE of them.

    That action restored fellowship with God. Dr. Davis in his book on Genesis on page 95 says.....
    "While it may be premature to read into this action the introduction of animal sacrifice, it certainly illustrated to Adam and Eve who may even have witnessed the death of these innocent animals the high cost of their actions and guilt".
     
  16. That's exactly why I decided to exhort Him, I don't really care what he believes, that's his right, but we all know in the Greek New Testament the word translated "opinion" in our English Translations is "heresy," and to say the CURSE is not in effect today on a Christian, Bible believing, Bible teaching, Jesus loving forum,

    ...well, I can't be faithful to my Lord or to His calling on my life and stand by and say nothing when heresy is spoken, we are the light of the world, light disperses darkness, and the light shines in the darkness, but the darkness understands it not, ...so, the Love of Christ constrains me, just like Paul, James, Peter, James who all spoke out against false teaching in their epistles, ...I must protect my younger brother who is admittedly searching for TRUTH.

    Gene
     
  17. Stan said and I quote him for correctness because when I first read this I could not believe it, but there it is in black and white...............................
    " The curse was to Adam and I don't see it as being one that Genesis shows is transferred to other generations."

    Are you kidding me Stan?????

    On another thread, there was a lot of time demanding what false teachings existed on this site .............
    well HERE IT IS!!!!

    The failure of Adam to resist the temptation of the serpent in the Garden of Eden had a catastrophic effect not only on coming generations of mankind, but also on all of creation.

    Romans 8:22 says..........
    "Because of the fall of Adam, " The whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now".
    Notice Romans 8:21 .........
    and is in the "bondage of corruption".

    We can easily observe the world around us and human society in particular and see that something is terribly wrong. The Fall of Adam as recorded in Genesis 3 tells us the reason!

    I can not believe anyone would question the fall of man by saying the Actions of Adam were not transferred to other generations! ALL of Creation groans not just man.

    Romans 3:23 says.............
    "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

    WE all groan because of the fall of Adam..
    What we are talking about is original sin doctrine. That doctrine is shared in one form or another by most all Christian churches, and it is that the sin of Adam & Eve changed or damaged human nature, such that all human beings since then are innately predisposed to sin, and are powerless to overcome this predisposition without divine intervention.

    Romans 5:14-17.............
    "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam’s offense, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ".
     
  18. YEP!

    Stan is "ignoring" me, but Rusty, what say you about this obvious turn of events?????
    You have now for sometime agreed with everything Stan has said, are you still going to do that here?

    If you do, please, for my sake in understanding.....list some Bible verses which will
    be a basis for truth.

    I could hardly believe what I read. I was stunned to say the least.
     
  19. Actually it goes much, much farther than saying there is no sin today, if, and I say IF, there isn't any sin today, if the effects of sin are not being felt by all of humanity, ...then Jesus Christ died in vain on the Cross, God the Father is a fool for allowing His Son to be tortured and crucified by mankind and we can tear out all of the Bible after Gen 3 because it is not of any use or value to us today, ...Paul warned us that in the end times there would be men that would come up in the Church teaching damnable heresies and even going so far as to deny the Lord Jesus Christ.

    He who has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church.

    Gene


    p.s. let's be certain that we do not attack the man, but rather refute the heresy with the Truth from the Word, ...vengeance is mine says the Lord.
     
    Major likes this.
  20. Sorry, but you being a fool has nothing to do with me. We'll see how confused the OP is.

    That would be because SIN was in the world before the law was given as Paul states in Rom 5:13.

    It's called the Bible Gene. Many chapters and many verses. What point did I make that you can't find in it?

    The curse to the snake was also to it's offspring. Gen 3:15 if you read carefully. Labor pain is subjective if you've spent ANY time in delivery room Gene. God never said anything about making ALL women's pain the same as Eve's did He? READ Gen 3:16 carefully. Adam was called to work and take care of the land before God cursed it for HIM. What exactly do you think WORK means? Do you think that was easy? Compared to what? God said because of ADAM the ground would be cursed UNTIL he returned to it. Gen 3:19.

    Just where exactly did I write this Gene? You really do need to stop equivocating and putting words into my mouth or onto the post as this case may be. The OP is not about Matthew 25, and I suggested you to start your own OP if you want to discuss Matthew 25.

    It really does depend on whether you actually read the Bible before you think you know what it says.
     

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