Can Christians Judge?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Trodaí Urnaí, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. There are many Christians who say we can't judge. The bible does state you are not to judge in the below verse. This seems to be the verse Christians use to claim we aren't allowed to judge anyone.

    Matthew 7:1-5 7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

    In this verse it doesn't necessarily say not to judge, but when you do judge you will also be judged by the same degree you judged someone. And if you are also in sin then get your act straight before you cast blame on someone else.

    I will use the following verses to support my claim that Christians can judge.

    John 7:24 "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

    This verse is talking about righteous judgement. What is right judgment? In the KJV says righteous judgement and NASB does as well. Righteous judgment is Biblical Judgment. Judge a person according to what the Word of God says.

    1 Corinthians 5:11-13 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.

    The first part of this passage tells us not to associate with certain people who are in sin. To find out who is in sin we must judge them. It also states we aren't here to judge outsiders (non Christians) but judge members of the Church. God judges the non Christians and we judge fellow Christians. It also states to get rid of the evil people among us. NASB says to get rid of the wicked among us. So here it says we are to get rid of wicked members of the church. To find out if someone in the church is wicked we must judge them.

    Romans 12:9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.

    This passage tells us to Abhor evil. To abhor evil we must judge the person first to find the evil.

    James 5:19-20 19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

    God wants us to confront brothers and sisters in Christ and let them know of their sinful ways therefore judging them. If we don't let other Christians know that they are walking the wrong path then we are allowing them to possibly face death (hell). This is a good thing to do this.

    The following are examples of where Apostles judging others.

    2 Timothy 2:16-17 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus

    2 Timothy 4:14-15 14 Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. 15 Beware of him yourself, for he strongly opposed our message.

    1 Timothy 1:19-20 19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, 20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

    Paul in these verses is judging and telling other Christians about things others have done.

    3 John 1:9-10 9 I have written something to the church, but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge our authority. 10 So if I come, I will bring up what he is doing, talking wicked nonsense against us. And not content with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers, and also stops those who want to and puts them out of the church

    John is telling others of something Diotrephes has done. Again we see judgement from a Christian telling other Christians.

    1 Timothy 5:20 20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

    Here it tells us we are to confront Christians in sin (judge) and do this in front of other Christians and this is to make other Christians think twice about entering into sin.

    James 4:17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

    Here it tells us we are to do the right thing and that right thing is to judge other Christians, not out of hate or anger, but to help them see that what they are doing is wrong and also to help other Christians see this before they act on it.

    My position is we can judge other Christians but we need to do it out of love and not pride or anger. I don't think Christians wanted to kick others out of the Church but it happened. Can this be abused like anything else? Yes! We need to trust in the Holy Spirit and let Him guide us.
    KingJ, TezriLi and Heart_for_Christ says Amen and like this.
  2. [​IMG]

    Reminds me of something I heard from this pastor:

    “People tell me judge not lest ye be judged. I always tell them, twist not scripture lest ye be like satan.”

    Paul Washer
    dUmPsTeR, KingJ, Dave Lucas and 6 others say Amen and like this.
  3. I've heard Christians may judge other Christians. Not sure if that's true but it's what I've heard.
  4. If you read the OP you will see scripture that says that
  5. I generally only read the first paragraph or so. The rest I either skim over or skip. I wish I had time for the long-winded posts but I'm one of the typical audience members that is lost on such methods. Good to know though. Maybe I'll go back and give it a closer look. [emoji106]
    TezriLi likes this.
  6. The verses are highlighted if you want to just read them :)
    TH420X likes this.
  7. I have and am. [emoji6] Also, after rereading my reply I see how it could come off as sounding rude. I wanted to make sure you knew that was not my intention. I'm just a short and to the point type and my learning/reading style reflects that.

    Of course, when thoroughly researching and studying topics, that logic goes out the window. But, then again, when researching/studying I have a set block of time put aside for that purpose.

    Anyway, just wanted you to know.
    Abdicate, TezriLi and Where is the Messiah says Amen and like this.
  8. No problem. I usually don't do long posts but the comment of Christians not being able to judge is always thrown around on forums and in Church. I just felt I needed to look up scripture on it and then share what I found.
    TH420X likes this.
  9. And I'm glad you did! Thank you.
  10. I should probably read the explanations about this before I add my two cents plane. On the other hand, if I say what I think first and I get it correct I will have a sin to confess when I go to confession.

    We have a priest who helps with our youth group. I feel safe around him. I think that he is not a pedophile. Oh, I'm so bad. Now I have another sin to confess.

    Anyway, I asked him about the church's involvement in the abortion issue. I asked what penalty the Church would want to be applied to people convicted of abortion. He said that the Church would accept whatever penalty that Caesar wanted as long as it was not the death penalty.

    Notice he said Caesar, not the State of the government. That is so totally cool.

    The obvious inference is that Christians should not judge, for example like picketing abortion clinics, Caesar or God should judge.
    PeaceLikeaRiver likes this.
  11. #11 Godspell, Aug 15, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
    I've considered this matter as well. From what I've gathered Christ taught us not to judge others. And I look at the woman caught in adultery as a very telling example of this. Christ also tells us, "The measure you use to judge others will be measured back to you." Now, I don't know about you, but I would like to have a pretty small ruler to measure my righteousness and a pretty long one to measure my wickedness. So when judging in the spiritual sense, certainly I think this is a great rule of thumb, just don't do it.

    I think this also applies to the practice of canonizing sinners. I've heard Christians explicitly state, without doubt, that Gandhi is in hell. Now, I get that they're extracting verses and applying them in a very literal sense to certain people who have shown no indication of accepting the Gospel. But, the bottom line is that God is ultimate judge to decide if we are to go to heaven or hell, so even if you are 99.99% sure that Gandhi is in hell, don't say it, because it's not your call to make. And there are mysteries yet to be revealed for when we pass to the next life. Personally I get a little chilled whenever I here a Christian make a statement like that.

    Now, there are places where we are explicitly instructed "to" judge. For instance, when Paul tells us to not yolk ourselves with unbelievers. I always thought that was rather difficult to ascertain if we are not suppose to judge. But, what I think Paul means in these passages is not judgment in the spiritual sense, but more along the lines of discernment. And in any case Paul has a bit of a no-nonsense style of overseeing. I think that the Church in Corinth was struggling a bit with how to deal with their incestuous member without judging him, and finally Paul steps in and tells them, essentially, to not be so weak-kneed. I would say it is more akin to a man contemplating whether or not he should let a convicted murderer stay the night at his house because he doesn't want to judge the man. Well, you can make a discerning judgment, as in, "this is way to risky to let this man stay the night, he murdered someone after all" without making a spiritual judgment "That man is going to hell!"

    So, in the sense when it comes to a Pastor or Priest or even a Bishop, they might have to make judgments that are probably better described as discerning judgments rather than spiritual judgments. For instance, when a priest assigns penance, he has to in some ways make a judgment on who contrite the confessor is, and where is heart ultimately was, and how severe the sin was. But, he's not making a judgment into the person's spirit. And in the case of excommunication, I've said it should not be engaged in unless (1) it is endangering the congregation or (2) it is a last resort to compel the person into repentance.

    People tend to take an all or nothing approach to this question. But honestly I think it is best answered in a manner of, "Judge judiciously".
    HisManySongs and Silk say Amen and like this.
  12. Now, you know I am not Catholic. In fact, I have made some fairly strong statements against the R. Catholic church at times. But let me write this: When I was widowed and between jobs, during the hours my children were in school, I volunteered for a pro-life movement in Minneapolis, just helping out in the office and writing for the cause. During that time, my holiness-Pentecostal pastor demanded that I stop working for MCCL because he believed abortion was (what he called) a "Catholic problem" having nothing to do with real Christians. Being an obedient person, I went to work for him instead -- just "busy work," useless stuff until he made me feel unsafe with him. Then, I went back to MCCL. Throughout that time, the R Catholic church was basically the only church that stood up for the babies. Way too many of the rest of them had the same attitude as that pastor. While children were being cut apart and burned in the wombs of their mothers, a whole lot of the churches twiddled their thumbs and said, "It's not my problem."


    I like that Caesar thang, too. :D
  13. Thank you, @Trodaí Urnaí, for this thread. I had just made a short statement about this subject, when I found this. Again, thank you.
  14. The RCC has been very vocal about abortion, and has managed a suppose an intense and gentle attitude. I've heard some parishes will excommunicate a parishoner who votes for someone that supports abortion. (not personally a route I would take, but I get it) I've also understood that one of the major reasons why the RCC abandoned their limbo theory for unbaptized infants was because of aborted Catholic babies.
    TezriLi likes this.
  15. Can we agree that we are to use "judgement" in all things?

    For I would suggest that we are to judge the works of people, business, institutions, government, churches and ourselves, then also to exhort or repudiate actions to be good, acceptable or evil. However I would contend also, that we are not scripturally authorized to engage or support "legal judgement" or "legal condemnation" to others who sin, "unless" they act "despotically."

    Despotism is to "steal, kill and destroy (harm)." Sins of "aggression"

    Thus if a despot (an aggressor) would inflict "violence" upon another then they are worthy of our societal judgement. If they are a non-aggressor but also are in self-indulged sin void of aggression, then we have no scriptural right to "legally judge them" or "legally condemn them."

    Christ defended the non-aggressor in sin "legally" but then challenged their purity with kindness; he called those who would legally prosecute the non-aggressive sinner a brood of vipers.
    KingJ and LysanderShapiro say Amen and like this.
  16. Im wondering this too because my brother has been coming home high from marijuana and I get angry and lecture him and he says im not one to judge and am acting like the pharisees from the bible but really I just dont want him falling in more sins.
  17. I have a cousin who has children who are about my age. When he was in the Navy, he was stationed in Hollywood because he was somehow connected with the Armed Forces Radio Network. He was studying to be a minister in whatever denomination he belongs to. One day, he was in my Mom's SUV, and we passed an abortion clinic where people were protesting. He asked Mom to stop. He got out and protested the protestors. I was too young to understand the argument. Now I know that it must have been something like what I got from the priest.

    On another subject, if there is any issue for which the Church came down on the wrong side, it is the way it let pedophiles damage teenage boys. I think that the former Bishop of Los Angeles should have been prosecuted for obstruction of justice or accessory after the fact or something. It is so horrific. For people who wonder how God lets things happen, that one must be at the top of the list.
  18. Well Ghid...I hope you understand that the RCC does not represent what many of us consider the true church of Jesus Christ? And that the murder of unborn babies is a thing that many of us reject in absolute terms and believe is the greatest of all evils.
  19. This is the thing: a lot of us who are not R Catholic want to hide in the folds of the non-catholic clerical robes and see sexual abuse as a R Catholic issue. This reminds me of a very early childhood memory, when my sister walked into the unlocked bathroom while I was doing my business upon the throne. I was embarrassed and hid my eyes by pulling my whole skirt over my head, declaring, "You can't see me." She simply answered, "Yes, I can." Then I realized that she could not only see me, but I had exposed the everything in my efforts to not be seen. The R. Catholic church does NOT have a monopoly on sexual abuse, as much as some would like us to think.
    KingJ and Ghid say Amen and like this.
  20. That is sort of the truth of it. Schools are another place where pedophiles practice their hobby. Schools almost always aid in the prosecution, and they don't try to deny it happened. The Los Angeles School district is almost as bad as the Church. They had a pedophile who was molesting preteen children for more than a decade. It is hard to believe that the other teachers didn't know it was happening. The Church deluded itself into thinking it could fix the pedophiles, and the bishops sent them for treatment and forgiveness. It is so bizarre, it is difficult to believe.
    TezriLi likes this.

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