Bible Translations Study

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ABabeInChrist said:

Im going to watch this today if you guys know who James White is this should be interesting. He has done a lot of different debates including ones that are about modern translations vs KJV. He is in favor of the modern translations.
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Heya, I watched this video, and what really stands out to me is one HUGE contradiction of Steven Anderson's teaching.

He says salvation is by Faith apart from works, yet if someone doesn't read the KJV then are not saved. So is salvation by Faith AND KJV? Such a hypocrite.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
Heya, I watched this video, and what really stands out to me is one HUGE contradiction of Steven Anderson's teaching.

He says salvation is by Faith apart from works, yet if someone doesn't read the KJV then are not saved. So is salvation by Faith AND KJV? Such a hypocrite.
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I know I just watched that too! I can't believe he said that.... Completely ridiculous. The only thing that I believe is the KJV is the preserved word and it has the proper doctrine and words to be the Sword of the Spirit for the believer. Although some translations have good and even same scriptures like the KJV aka NKJV but it still does not have the complete words that will completely help the believer.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
Heya, I watched this video, and what really stands out to me is one HUGE contradiction of Steven Anderson's teaching.

He says salvation is by Faith apart from works, yet if someone doesn't read the KJV then are not saved. So is salvation by Faith AND KJV? Such a hypocrite.
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Also thanks for taking the time for watching the video I have a little more respect actually for James White watching and doing more research on Steven Anderson is very interesting. Hes had sermons where he cursed and has completely acted out of character. But I still like the documentary because it does point out some very important issues between the translations
 
ABabeInChrist said:
Also thanks for taking the time for watching the video I have a little more respect actually for James White watching and doing more research on Steven Anderson is very interesting. Hes had sermons where he cursed and has completely acted out of character. But I still like the documentary because it does point out some very important issues between the translations
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Yea, but I think KJV-Onlyism is a tradition thing. The best thing to do when becoming a Christian is to wipe your slate clean and have Jesus as your foundation. After that, finding a good translation is a piece of cake. Wether it is KJV or NIV, the words and commands of God and Christ are in them both. And I think Dr. White has a better understanding of the doctrines of scripture, because he actually reads them in their original forms.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
Yea, but I think KJV-Onlyism is a tradition thing. The best thing to do when becoming a Christian is to wipe your slate clean and have Jesus as your foundation. After that, finding a good translation is a piece of cake. Whetehr it is KJV or NIV, the words and commands of God and Christ are in them both. And I think Dr. White has a better understanding of the doctrines of scripture, because he actually reads it in their original forms.
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Now this I can agree with.
 
So... Reliability of the proof text itself....

For a little snippet of the questions going on with this...

King James and many of the translations pre-1900 were based on the "Textus Receptus" - the proof text of the Greek Orthodox church....

Many since then have been based on a proof text called "Textus Sianitucus" which was pushed by some fellows named Westcott and Hort....

Then several others are based on "Textus Vaticanus" which was found in the Vatican libraries....

As you could imagine... If you were not the sort who would admit that the Greek Orthodox Church was "Right"... like ... Say... The Catholics and about 90% of Protestants.. then you can see why many "Scholars" may have an agenda towards another proof text - even if it turned out to be less "Reliable"...
 
JohnC said:
So... Reliability of the proof text itself....

For a little snippet of the questions going on with this...

King James and many of the translations pre-1900 were based on the "Textus Receptus" - the proof text of the Greek Orthodox church....

Many since then have been based on a proof text called "Textus Sianitucus" which was pushed by some fellows named Westcott and Hort....

Then several others are based on "Textus Vaticanus" which was found in the Vatican libraries....

As you could imagine... If you were not the sort who would admit that the Greek Orthodox Church was "Right"... like ... Say... The Catholics and about 90% of Protestants.. then you can see why many "Scholars" may have an agenda towards another proof text - even if it turned out to be less "Reliable"...
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I don't bother with all that you said above. As long as it contains the words and commands of God and Jesus, it talks about what God has done for us, has his plan for our salvation and is an easy read (that kinda leaves the KJV out for me, but not others), than that is good enough for me.

That is why I am sticking with the Bible versions that I listed in my reply above.
 
"Who but those with Roman Catholic sympathies could ever be pleased with the notion that God preserved the true New Testament text in secret for almost one thousand years and then finally handed it over to the Roman Pontiff for safekeeping?" John W. Burgon, Dean of Chichester University

To those who "claim to have studied this issue", I ask simply, Do you have any idea who Westcott and Hort are, and of what their contributions to what is now considered the "best" Greek manuscript in which to base New Testament translations?


 
Phoneman777 said:
"Who but those with Roman Catholic sympathies could ever be pleased with the notion that God preserved the true New Testament text in secret for almost one thousand years and then finally handed it over to the Roman Pontiff for safekeeping?" John W. Burgon, Dean of Chichester University

To those who "claim to have studied this issue", I ask simply, Do you have any idea who Westcott and Hort are, and of what their contributions to what is now considered the "best" Greek manuscript in which to base New Testament translations?
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Do the newer translations have the plan an unfolding story for God's redemption of man? Do they contain the words of both God and his only Son?

I don't need to study, I can read the Bible for myself to see if it contains that which shows His plan for our redemption as well as His words and the words of His Son. I can also be led of the Holy Spirit to which Bible Good had chosen for me. Both times it was a newer version. My wife was led of the Holy Spirit to purchase the Men's Devotional Bible NIV version to help lead me to our Savior.

God knows better which version we should read as He knows us inside and out. For instance He knows that I get to easily distracted reading the KJV, so why would He have me read from that version? Yet, the first time I read my Bible through was with the NKJV Chronological Study Bible. I would sometimes read 20 pages in a sitting, where as when I tried reading the KJV, i was lucky if I made it past the second page before I was distracted.

I'm not saying that the KJV is a bad translation, far from it, what I am saying is that it is a bad translation for me.
 
naomanos said:
Do the newer translations have the plan an unfolding story for God's redemption of man? Do they contain the words of both God and his only Son?

I don't need to study, I can read the Bible for myself to see if it contains that which shows His plan for our redemption as well as His words and the words of His Son. I can also be led of the Holy Spirit to which Bible Good had chosen for me. Both times it was a newer version. My wife was led of the Holy Spirit to purchase the Men's Devotional Bible NIV version to help lead me to our Savior.

God knows better which version we should read as He knows us inside and out. For instance He knows that I get to easily distracted reading the KJV, so why would He have me read from that version? Yet, the first time I read my Bible through was with the NKJV Chronological Study Bible. I would sometimes read 20 pages in a sitting, where as when I tried reading the KJV, i was lucky if I made it past the second page before I was distracted.

I'm not saying that the KJV is a bad translation, far from it, what I am saying is that it is a bad translation for me.
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Im not going to say that your circumstances were not led by the Holy Ghost but maybe right now with the fact of you seeing this discussion that I put forth could also be of God as well right? What do you mean by distractions? Also just check out some comparisons between a KJV and NIV that I found with this website. http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/m-m.html just check it out for yourself please.
 
ABabeInChrist said:
Im not going to say that your circumstances were not led by the Holy Ghost but maybe right now with the fact of you seeing this discussion that I put forth could also be of God as well right? What do you mean by distractions? Also just check out some comparisons between a KJV and NIV that I found with this website. http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/m-m.html just check it out for yourself please.
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Maybe God is sending me here to show those who are KJV only, that He is not KJV only? Just a thought.

The language of the KJV is a distraction to me. I failed that part of English class when we started studying English authors such as Shakespeare. The thees and thous, etc... are a distraction because I do not speak that way. It is not my vernacular.

As for checking out that website, I do not need to. I have said before that I have heard all the arguments for and against newer translations and I have no use for either side.

edit: My wife who has multiple sclerosis which has seriously wreaked havoc on her cognitive thinking cannot read the KJV Bible either. She has a very hard time with concentration, reasoning and understanding, and having to read old English is not going to happen for her.

edit 2: I will also say again that I am not saying that the KJV is a bad version, I am saying that it's not the version for me or my wife.
 
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naomanos said:
Maybe God is sending me here to show those who are KJV only, that He is not KJV only? Just a thought.

The language of the KJV is a distraction to me. I failed that part of English class when we started studying English authors such as Shakespeare. The thees and thous, etc... are a distraction because I do not speak that way. It is not my vernacular.

As for checking out that website, I do not need to. I have said before that I have heard all the arguments for and against newer translations and I have no use for either side.

edit: My wife who has multiple sclerosis which has seriously wreaked havoc on her cognitive thinking cannot read the KJV Bible either. She has a very hard time with concentration, reasoning and understanding, and having to read old English is not going to happen for her.

edit 2: I will also say again that I am not saying that the KJV is a bad version, I am saying that it's not the version for me or my wife.
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The only reason why I want you to check it out is because it shows the comparisons of KJV vs NIV verses that are of importance. You should actually just check it out for good purposes in you walk with God. Id suggest that you get a kjv if you dont have one and read/compare it with whatever other translation you're doing. I don't think that would hurt at all but actually improve your journey.
 
ABabeInChrist said:
The only reason why I want you to check it out is because it shows the comparisons of KJV vs NIV verses that are of importance. You should actually just check it out for good purposes in you walk with God. Id suggest that you get a kjv if you dont have one and read/compare it with whatever other translation you're doing. I don't think that would hurt at all but actually improve your journey.
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My wife has a KJB that her grandparents gave her when she gave her life to Christ. I could read that, but unlike you I do not think it will improve my journey anymore than it already is and will be reading a different version than the KJV. It's just another Bible, albeit a different translation.

I do not need to check it out, and I guess you're not understanding me (pretty sure that I am being clear), I have seen/read the differences before. I have no use for them as to me what matters is readability. If I have trouble reading something, I will not read it.

So the old adage applies, "the best Bible is the one that you will read."
 
naomanos said:
I agree, which is another reason why the KVJ is not the only translation to read from.
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I can see through some of my past experiences that God brought another Bible translation to me to help in my time of need for sure but I guess in my relationship with God he's led me finally to the KJV which I am blessed luckily to comprehend it. If there is things that I mightn ot understand like certain I look at it as a way that God wants me to even seek how he defines these certain words through my own personal search through concordances. God's pretty awesome isn't he?!
 
Phoneman777 said:
"Who but those with Roman Catholic sympathies could ever be pleased with the notion that God preserved the true New Testament text in secret for almost one thousand years and then finally handed it over to the Roman Pontiff for safekeeping?" John W. Burgon, Dean of Chichester University

To those who "claim to have studied this issue", I ask simply, Do you have any idea who Westcott and Hort are, and of what their contributions to what is now considered the "best" Greek manuscript in which to base New Testament translations?
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Well, yes I know who they are and their views. But, going there will just cause an argument so I will leave it alone.
 
ABabeInChrist said:
What translation do you read? yea Steven Anderson is an interesting preacher he tends to get pretty excited!
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I have a KJV reference bible with a topical index, which is awesome. It is my standard which I check all others with.
I find I can understand difficult passages better using multiple versions. I will use the NIV, NLT, NKJV and KJV for studying. Lately I've been using more and more the NLT Study Bible for it's ease of understanding. It has many commentaries and gives you literal and sometimes the KJV rendering of a phrase or word. I often use the KJV along with a Strong's Concordance to check on the NIV and NLT versions for accuracy. The KJV is my go to Bible for the original text and the NLT is my modern language Bible, and using both with the NIV gives you comparisons and you find the bad translations in the NIV on occasion, and you also find the failings of the old English in the KJV, using words that are almost foreign in today's usage.
But you still cannot beat the beauty of the KJV, and so I use the NKJV often to retain that flavor.

So I believe using multiple versions is best, remembering to always check with the KJV. More versions is better because man's languages, all of them, are limited because we are flawed beings. Sort of like when you hear a child describe where babies come from, or how we get milk from a cow. Their scope of understanding limits what concepts can be used, and the bare truth can blow their minds. And then they try to teach their friends and confusion abounds. In the same way, what God is, is too much for us and we can't understand it all. So give me all the different ways to say something, and then I can piece it together. Truth tends to become apparent with all the information available.
 
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