Bible doesn't teach eternal hell

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by MinisterTony, Nov 10, 2010.

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  1. I have spent over 10 years diligently studying God's Word, and I have concluded that eternal hellfire is not taught in Bible and was never taught by Jesus.

    This is what I learned.....:

    Bible wasn't originally written in English. The word "hell" is not Hebrew or Greek word, its English! The Hebrew and Greek under the English word eternal, doesn't mean endless.

    And interestingly enough, the NIV translators totally omitted the words hell and hellfire from the entire Old Testament, and the words don't even appear once.

    In the original languages of the Bible - Hebrew and Koine Greek, eternal hellfire is NEVER taught! We only get this idea of an eternal hellfire where people will burn forever in agony in the English Bible. But God never ever taught it, and eternal hellfire is not Biblical.

    What's the purpose of God's punishment as taught in Bible? Punishment is for CORRECTION and REDIRECTION of acts, to align with God's law and repent! Yet with a eternal hellfire, there is no objective in it, there is no end to the punishment and no opportunity to change and repent, hence, NO objective to the punishment! I reject the idea of eternal punishment and my God and my Bible doesn't teach it.

    And if the wages of sin was eternal hellfire and agony, that would mean that Jesus, our total substitute, who had to bear the FULL penalty of our sins, would have to burn forever in agony in eternal hellfire.

    Eternal sleep[death] is the wages for those who reject Jesus - John 3:36, Rom 6:23, Psa 37:20,104:35. They will burn, and burn up and be no more in a lake of fire which will eventually burn out - Oba 1:16.

    And when it comes to Jesus, Jesus talked about Gehenna and Gehenna was a literal rubbish dump, but English translators used the English word HELL for this, but in the Greek there is no such word as hell.

    When Jesus used the term "Gehenna", his hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump, situated south/west of Jerusalem where refuse and the bodies of criminals were burnt. But English translators made it into HELL an English word that never exists in the original Greek.

    Since rubbish and dead criminals and bodies were continuously added, the fires were perpetually flamed and kept alight. However, individual bodies did not burn endlessly, they became ashes! Eternal hellfire is ONLY taught in English translations, it is not taught in the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

    Not once did Jesus say a place will burn the lost forever! Certain people only get this understanding from the English Bible. Nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts does it talk about an eternal hellfire!
  2. And may I add something very interesting.

    The term "for ever, eternal, everlasting" as used in the Bible, means simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See also Jonah 1:17). In Deuteronomy 23:3, this means "10 generations." In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22,28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14.)

    So the lost will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out. The teaching of eternal torment has done more to drive people to atheism and insanity than any other invention of the devil. It is slander upon the loving character of a tender, gracious heavenly Father and has done untold harm to the Christian cause.

    The Greek word for everlasting or eternal is the adjective "aionios" derived from the noun "aion" which means an "age" or "era". The word itself leaves the time limit of the age undefined.

    (Aion, Aionios) 42 times rendered "eternal" and 25 times "everlasting"

    The runaway slave "onesimus" (philemon 15) was to serve his master "for ever"(aionios)

    Read about the city of Edom in Isa 34:6-11 It says Edom was to burn forever and never be quenched! But its NOT burning today and in fact in verse 11 it says it will be occupied again after this so called forever FIRE! The problem lies in English translations, and eternal and forever and ever, does not always mean endless in the Bible.

    Is EDOM burning today? NO! English translation says forever, but the original language it doesn't say or mean forever as you can clearly see that the next verse says it will be occupied again. How is that possible if v10 was to be taken literally as eternal fire etc... Think about it!

    In Isa 34:10 it says the smoke from the fire on Edom will rise forever and never be quenched! Is this smoke rising today? NO it is not as Edom is in ashes today!

    The original terms have been misunderstood and this can even be established from within the KJV itself. For example, the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God with fire. Jude 1:7 says they were burnt with "eternal fire". These cities are not still burning today. With reference to these two cities, Peter says that they burnt until they became ashes. 2 Pet 2:6. Jeremiah goes onto say they these cities burnt for a moment!! Lam 4:6.

    He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
  3. Roger Tutt? Is that you with another name? :)

    Well, eternal hellfire or not, I know I want to spend eternity in God's presence forever. Not to escape hell, but to bask in His glory forever. So, for me, it ultimately doesn't really matter. Eternal separation from God, whether in neverending torment or neverending oblivion is undesirable and unpleasant. Really, it's a tragic waste when one is so blinded to God's glory that they reject the gift that is offered to "whosoever will.."

    Punishment, however, is not soley for correction and redirection. It is often a form of redress. A thief who has his hand cut off may give up his thieving ways, but he will also never have the use of his hand again. In that respect, it would make sense that a person who rejects Jesus' atoning blood will bear the punishment for their own sins and since their sins are measured on a divine scale, their punishment would be eternal because their suffering would never be sufficient to achieve the righteousness of God.
  4. Any biblical reference for this one? :)
  5. I would like to mention - Bible translations are not perfect, and - like anything else - are subjective to the translator. Not everyone is going to translate something exactly word-to-word, and religious texts of any kind are notorious for this.
  6. The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

    ‘Fire’ - Strong's Number: 4442

    Original Word

    Transliterated Word
    Definition: fire

    Revelation 20:15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Revelation 14:10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever

    ‘Ever’ - Strong's Number: 165

    Original Word

    Word Origin

    from the same as (104)

    Transliterated Word
    Definition: forever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
    GrannyG and xspinningisfun say Amen and like this.
  7. Very cool.
  8. I am not Roger Tutt and I have only ever used MinisterTony as a nickname here.

    In the eternal hellfire doctrine, is there an opportunity for the person to redress, remedy or set right?

    Eternal hellfire gives the person no change for all eternity to redress, or repent or anything else. It's just an eternal torture that has no objective but to eternally punish someone in agony and screaming pain as they burn and burn and cannot ever stop the pain.

    The loving God of Scripture would never do such an evil act. A human would not even be able stand back and watch an animal or enemy burn in total agony and not try to do something to cease their agony. So evil humans cannot be so barbaric, so why do people accuse God of being a worse monster than an evil human?

    If you had a child and lets say she stabbed you and nearly killed you and she killed people and killed your dog and she was very evil little kid and she was arrested, and you had ONLY 2 choices or options between putting her to sleep for ever or setting her alight and letting her burn in agony for ever if possible, which one would you choose?

    You only have 2 options! Which one would you choose? Eternal sleep or eternal agony for your lost child? Imagine you had only these 2 options. Which would you choose? Could you stand back even for 2 minutes and watch your own lost child burn on fire in agony? y/n?

    I would personally choose eternal sleep of course! So being evil as humans are, you truly believe our loving God would choose more EVIL than you? Eternal sleep[Death] is wages for sinners and NOT eternal agony. Please believe this wonderful truth as it will enable you to love Jesus more deeply.
  9. Plenty.

    The Bible says the lost and all those who rejected Jesus , suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25)

    There are about 182 clear verses for the destruction of the lost.

    The only way to live is to get access to the tree of life! And the saved will live forever in heaven where the tree of life will be forever! So the lost cannot live forever in some hellfire because there is no tree of life there!

    And without access to the tree of life, there is no immortality, so the lost will DIE and sleep forever! Only the saved will be given immortality. Read 1cor 15:51-55! And without that and without Jesus the lost will not see life. Read John 3:36

    So you mean the lost can still LIVE, just as Satan said in Gen 3:4, without access to the tree of life?

    Some people claim that the lost will live forever! But, how can they without access to the tree of life?

    The lost will never receive immortality or access to the tree of life which will only be in the new heaven, so they will die the 2nd Death - Greek [apokteino] = kill outright, put an end to, destruction!

    The lost cannot live forever in some "hellfire" becase there will be NO Tree of life there! And without access to the Tree of Life, there can be no eternal life. Simple as that really.

    "So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man ... shall cast them into a furnace of fire." Matthew 13:40-42. "They went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Revelation 20:9. "The righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner." Proverbs 11:31.

    At the end of the world, God Himself will kindle hellfire. As the holy city comes down from God out of heaven (Revelation 21:2), the wicked attempt to capture it. At that time, God will rain down fire from heaven upon the earth, and it will devour the wicked.

    The dogma of the innate immortality of the "soul"(nephesh,psuche) and eternal torment of the wicked was not the position of the early Christian Church.

    It was not introduced until toward the close of the 2nd century in a large scope. And the English Bible translations have not helped by using words like HELL which is not a Hebrew or Greek word and by translating certain Hebrew/Greek words into "eternal, everlasting, forever", which in the original langues does not mean endless. In fact I can show and prove many places wheere English translators have used words such as "eternal, everlasting, forever" to things and events that have passed.
  10. Actually, the Koine Greek in Rev 20:10 doesn't teach that Satan will exist forever and ever. In fact, Hebrews 2:14 clearly teaches that Satan will be destroyed!

    Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    The Koine Greek word "aionios" is used in Revelation 20:10 and Matthew 25:46 and has been translated forever and ever! But in Koine Greek it doesn't mean endless at all!

    The Greek word for everlasting or eternal is the adjective "aionios" derived from the noun "aion" which means an "age" or "era". The word itself leaves the time limit of the age undefined.

    (Aion, Aionios) 42 times rendered "eternal" and 25 times "everlasting"

    The runaway slave "onesimus" (philemon 15) was to serve his master "for ever"(aionios)

    As I have already mentioned, read about the city of Edom in Isa 34:6-11 It says Edom was to burn forever and never be quenched! But its not burning today and in fact in verse 11 it says it will be occupied again after this so called forever FIRE! The problem lies in English translations, and eternal and forever and ever, does not always mean endless in the Bible.

    Only the saved will be given immortality as a gift and given access to the TREE OF LIFE which is in Paradise. So it's impossible for the lost and Satan to exist forever because without immortality and without access to the TREE OF LIFE IN PARADISE, they cannot live and will perish and cease to exist.

    The only way the lost and Satan would live forever is if they were given immortality and access into Paradise. But surely you are not claiming Satan will be back allowed into heaven and given the right to eat from the tree of life?

    Adam and Eve began to decay and die because they lost access to the tree of life, likewise, anyone who will not be given access to the tree of life will have no life, and will be snuffed out of existence forever. The result of their punishment is ETERNAL.
  11. Well, the depth of my love for Jesus has never been dependent in any way on my view of Hell. In fact, knowing that He took my punishment upon Himself so that I could be reconciled to God means even more to me if He took upon Himself what would have been eternal torment for me, rather than merely rescuing me from eternal oblivion.

    I also think it is unreasonable to judge God by our fallen standards of morality. Is God more evil than I because He might choose to eternally punish someone whereas I would naturally feel sympathetic, feeling kinship in fallenness? Since He is the Creator and the standard-setter and the judge, since He is Holy and Righteous and I know these only through their being imputed to me, I am inclined to let Him decide how He shall deal with those who reject His salvation. If that be annihilation, well and good. If eternal punishment, so be it. Though I would much rather all come to salvation, in which case the issue would be moot.

    From an emotional standpoint, the idea of eternal punishment ought to be disturbing to us. It should give impetus to our efforts to reach the lost. Whatever the fate of the wicked, He is worthy of our complete devotion because He is Glorious and Holy and Perfect and True and that alone is sufficient reason to make every effort to compel people to come in from the darkness into His eternal Light.
    Krystal likes this.
  12. What I'm actually asking is for biblical references for this particular statement of yours:

  13. Mister Tony,
    There is a basic concept that you have failed to consider. Our Omnipotent, Omnipresent, All Knowing God put His Spirit upon about 40 men to write and record His Holy Word. In the Book of the Revelation of Jesus to John and at least once in the Hebrew Bible, God cautioned us against removing or adding one word to His Scriptures.

    The very angle, spin and position of the Earth are in the hand of God but according to you thesis here you have found God insufficient. The only "Interpretation" of the Bible that has spent any real time on the market that disagrees with the others is the New World Translation and we already know that the JW's are not a twinkle in the eye of God and God's men have repeatedly debunked the fact that this heresy is a translation and not an interpretation. Add to that, that I have over the past twenty years of continuous Bible study, witnessed to and befriended a number of Mormons and Jehovah's Witness' and every one of the JW's, at some point have admitted that they will never be blessed with the presence of God and that the entire concept of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit has eluded them... they have een cursed of God for their heresy.

    Now, about this matter of Hell. In the story of Lazuras and the Rich Man. The Rich Man was in holding for the second resurrection and the Great White Throne Judgment. After that they will be sentenced to the Abyss, the Lake of Fire or whatever you choose to call it, but the suffering is eternal because these people have an eternal spirit (Gen.) when they were created in the image of God.

    I'm sorry to report it but you might need another ten years of study.
    Major, GodSpeaks and JG27_chili says Amen and like this.
  14. 10 It shall not be quenched night nor day;
    vThe smoke thereof shall go up for ever: Sounds like to me the fire still burns and it aint the chili's in my mouth :)
    Chili out
    xspinningisfun, GodSpeaks and forgivenWretch says Amen and like this.
  15. Sounds eternal to me!
    GodSpeaks likes this.
  16. If the wages of sin is not death as the Bible teaches, but is in fact eternal hellfire and agony, that would mean that Jesus, our total substitute, who had to bear the FULL penalty of our sins, would have to burn forever in agony in eternal hellfire.
  17. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one
    may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or
    evil. (2 Corinthians 5:10)
  18. Bill, I am sorry to report that your whole message is not based on biblical teaching, but is based on man made teachings that contradict Scripture.

    As for the Rich man and Lazarus, let me teach you what it truly means.

    Rich man and Lazarus..Is it figurative or Literal ? Well let's see.

    Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
    Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

    Did you catch that? If not, read those 2 verses again! Jesus always used parables when speaking to the Pharisee's etc. It was only when Jesus spoke with His disciples that he expounded all things.

    So that proves and shows that the Rich man and Lazarus was a Parable!

    Christ addressed the Pharisees when He recited this account (verse 14). Using one of their own well-known stories about the future (nearly every detail was recorded in Josephus' book, Josephus' Discourses to the Greeks Concerning Hades [pp. 637, 638], which was written shortly after Christ's time), Christ pointed out that in this life only we determine our future destiny. No second probation exists for the human race!

    Jesus employed a popular Pharisaical story to teach an important lesson to the Pharisees. But the details of the story so contradict the other teachings of Christ (see Matthew 13:36-40) that no one should accuse Him of supporting the details of the parable itself.

    A parable signifies a complete and often imaginary story from which a moral or lesson is to be drawn.

    The Random House College Dictionary describes a parable as "a short, allegorical story designed to convey a truth or moral lesson.

    Jesus' parables started this way: There was a certain etc...., bit like, once upon a time etc..

    The pharisees believed that salvation is based on Abrahamic descent. They believed that all of Abraham's descendants would automatically go to Heaven. Jesus used this parable to turn the tables around and show them that is not the case. A lesson was drawn from it. It's simply a parabolic fable.

    Luke 16:19-31 and the OT Isa 14:4-11[Parabolic imagery] is the ONLY place in the whole Bible that makes Hades/Sheol a place of suffering and is the ONLY place in the whole of scriptures portrayed as a place of torment. These being parables, so we can't now sweep all other[and there are many] clear verses aside because of 2 parables.

    It's simply hebraized platonism and Christ's last appeals at his end of public ministry.

    Rich man and Lazarus is the ONLY passage in the whole of NT of suffering in Hades. And that's because it's only a parable and NOT literal!

    "Abrahams Bossom" was a Jewish idiom meaning "Paradise".

    IDIOM = individual peculiarity of language - the language peculiar to a people or to a district, community, or class. example "Its raining cats and dogs". if someone tells you this, you take it literal or symbolically?

    The nature and destiny of man was a major area of disagreement between Christ and the pharisees. The pharisees rejected Christ's teachings of Life, death and destiny of man. The pharisees were immortal soulists who also believed in eternal agony.

    Jesus thus rebuked the Pharisees for their disregard of the Scriptures, foreseeing that even a supernatural event would not change the hearts of those who persistently rejected the teachings of "Moses and the prophets." The miracle of raising the real life Lazarus from the dead soon afterwards confirmed the accuracy of Jesus' conclusion. One did rise from the dead, yet the brothers of the "rich man" did not repent. In fact, the Pharisees even plotted to kill Lazarus after his resurrection. His very life was a reminder to them of their own hypocrisy

    So you side with the pharisees over Jesus?

    It's as literal as Judges 9:8-15 is, talking trees hehe :)

    Now read this carefully:

    A. Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10,16).
    B. People in hell can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65:17).
    C. The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28,29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to hell at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says.
    D. Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death (Revelation 22:11,12).
    E. The lost are punished in hellfire [Gehenna] at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42). The point of the story is found in verse 31 of Luke 16. Parables cannot be taken literally. If we took parables literally, then we must believe that trees talk! (See this parable in Judges 9:8-15).

    Religious "conversions" resulting from a fear of hell is part of Satan's plan.
  19. This is what Bible says about the city of Edom, "It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever"

    Now let me ask you a Edom burning today? OR is it at the bottom of the sea? :)
  20. Thanks for the reply MinisterTony.

    Just a follow-up question:

    You said that this:
    This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out.

    is based on this:

    The verse doesn't say that the fire will go out. A bit of a leap, don't you think?
    GodSpeaks likes this.
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