Beware Erroneous Gospel Part 2

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Noblemen, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. Greetings my brother and new friend in Christ,
    You made some claims in here that I have been using scripture false and so on and yet my brother you do the very thing you accuse me of. How can this be?

    You claim that when Paul said that if any one preaches another Gospel then what he did then they are false teachers and thus this gives you the right to judge or call out pastors. Kind of like paul was passing out permissions slips to judge the brethren. Hmm Now how can this be?

    Was not paul bringing a new message of hope, a new way of getting right before God to the gentiles or those who once were a far off from God? Of course he was. So he was speaking as to any one preaching any other way to get right by God other then Christ was a false teacher?
    Yes sir that tells me to go ye out in all the world and judge my servants for me. :)

    Many take things like when Paul spoke about some huksters were preaching out of making money other then the Love of God and yet people accuse ministries who are prospering biblically to be huksters and thiefs and robbers and false teachers. Again how can this be?

    You say several times.....that sounds alot like judging. Let me ask you this.....what does sound like mean any way. Well it sounds like that is what I am to do or could it look like and so forth.
    Maybe simply knowing or understanding what Jesus said would be more intune with things.

    In this post of yours it was said ((Jesus said you will know the tree by the fruit, by the words a man speak you can know his heart and also by his actions. That certainly sounds like judging.))

    Umm perhaps we might look at it this way. It is easy to see the fruits in a man by his words. A spirit filled man will speak Godly and uplifting and a carnal man would speak worldly and with human reason. So this says go yee all out into the world and judge all in my name. lol

    it was also said in your reply ((Who am I to question a pastor we are all equal under God, have you not heard that? God said it, besides that I am called to teach.))

    So God said now yee who are teaching in my name go ye out in the world and point your fingers at pastors and other teachers who man with what little knowledge we have and freely judge in my name. Ummm that just does not add up either. All equal under God...ok and this gives you a license to judge how ?

    again I find things like this in your reply ((Quoting one line from the Bible is not how you preach about God it is how you make the Bible say what you want it is called prooftexting.))

    Kind of ironic is it not, i mean is this not the very way you wrote your reply to me?

    My Friend you claim I am using scripture wrong and for example with Matt and Judge not yest ye be judged. I give you credit you did add a few more verses which is good and I had planned on getting into this .....And here you come with correction telling me I need to study and so forth.

    This is not fellowship or iron sharpening iron my friend but rather poor forum edicut and child like he said she said you are wrong and I am right type of games.
    if this is how you want to dig deeper into the Most Holy Written word of God then please excuse me for I am bowing out. Now then if you will bring His word to the table and for example why you feel I am using Matt wrong and bring more of His word with it and sit down and dig in with me then I am ready able and willing to ablige. ;)

    So for now my friend please think about this and let me know and I will be back around tomorrow but for now I am going to hunt up some good ol cat fishing videos and such and watch them on the smart tv God gave me.
    Blessings and Love to you my brother and I truly hope you will try this again.

    As we agreed not get offended nor attack but i am challenging you to bring fellowship without trying to prove one right over another.
    God Bless
    Fish Catcher Jim
    Major likes this.
  2. God bless you brother ,
    This is the type of reply I was talking about.
    So with that said good day post wise.
    It is rude to twist people's words around in a reply.
    I am now in mod mode.
    God Bless
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    Major, Fish Catcher Jim and Noblemen says Amen and like this.
  4. Yes, once a person realizes or discerns the fact that you cant be "unborn again", then it becomes very easy to spot those who teach Galatians 1:8
  5. Of course the real question to being "unborn again" is whether or not they were "Born Again" the 1st time.

    My experience in life is that people get saved (They think) they go about the business of trying to improve and get better. The truth is that the only class of people that God is saving is the ungodly!!!!!

    Jesus Christ did not come to call the righteous but instead to call all sinners which is what we all are. The reason is that there are none righteous, no not one.
    The righteousness of any man is nothing but a filthy rag before a holy God. Law condemns us and makes us speechless before grace can save us.

    Romans 3:19 says...........
    Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

    IMO, the human condition is that it is not that people are "good enough" for God to save them, but instead they do not understand that they are not "bad enough" for God to save them. Humanity now in this age refuses to recognize its lost condition before God.

    You used Galatians 1:9 as a basis for your thought. Paul was pointing his comments to the "Judaizers" of that day who did not deny the facts of the gospel, but they insisted that the Law had to be kept as well as trusting Christ. Paul is saying that anyone who mixes Law with Grace is to be damned.

    Why???? Because they are perverting the gospel.
    Noblemen likes this.

  6. What perverts "Grace" , = but to deny it or contradict it, or add to it, >>>works or deeds<<<
    This is Galatians 1:8
    "works for salvation"....."enduring to the end"......anything that a person teaches as some type of personal effort that is needed to ither keep you saved or complete your salvation"..
  7. That is correct. The oldest heresy in the New Test. is the one from the Judaizers to whom Paul was directing his comments to in Galatians.
    It is adding something to the gospel of grace or doing something rather than simply believing.

    It is faith plus something else which every single cult does. Every cult and "ism" has something that we must do in order to be saved.

    Paul and Peter agreed completely as in Acts 4:12 Peter says............
    "Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved".
  8. Major, major points, pun intended. But as we do I would have a difference of opinion on how Paul was handling the Judaizers.
    It's like the age old augment of "falling from grace.
    Not that you can't fall from grace, but the interpretation of it by most.
    Major likes this.
  9. LOL.......Not a problem my brother.

    I wish we could debate falling from grace here.

    I am 99% sure that if all Christians would recognize the difference between God's plan for national Israel and God's plan for the church there would be a lot less division in local churches and denominations.
    Noblemen likes this.
  10. No No Nobleman we are not going to go this route again . :)

    Actually it is so simple people have to work hard to miss it.

    Falling From Grace

    Trading Christ for any other way.
    Turning back to the law which can not save you from God's Grace of Christ Jesus.

    People read God's word with today's understanding and use words to build false teachings.

    Fall go of
    Its just that simple.
    Noblemen likes this.
  11. #51 Complete, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
    Beware an erroneous gospel (part 2)

    Regarding your words, @Noblemen, 'the burden of the law' (in your OP quoted above), I think of the words of Peter, following Paul's defence of his gospel, made before the apostles and elders in Jerusalem, regarding the conversion of the Gentiles:-

    'And when there had been much disputing,
    Peter rose up, and said unto them,
    "Men and brethren,

    ye know how that a good while ago
    God made choice among us,

    that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel,
    and believe.
    And God, which knoweth the hearts,
    bare them witness,
    giving them the Holy Ghost,
    even as He did unto us;
    And put no difference between us and them,
    purifying their hearts by faith.

    Now therefore why tempt ye God,
    to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples,
    which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
    But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ
    we shall be saved, even as they.'

    (Act 15:7-11)

    It says it all doesn't it?

    In Christ Jesus
    Major and Noblemen say Amen and like this.
  12. Absolutely true!!!!!

    Anyone would have to work at disbelieving what God has made so simple to accept! But isn't that pretty much the problem all disagreements in theology?

    Someone stakes out a position they like, and then no matter how much Bible truth sheds light on their lack of understanding, they just dig in that much deeper.

    Why do you think that is the case Jim????

    I think, and this is just me, that we are now besieged by what I call "cafeteria Christians". They pick and choose which Bible verses they like and can follow and want to do with less care than they exercise in selecting side orders for lunch. The t hey are joined by religious rationalizers-- who, unable to find Scripture supporting their biases and beliefs, twist phrases and modify translations to prove they are honoring the Bible’s words.

    Here is some scary proof to prove my point Jim. A Pew Research poll in 2010 found that evangelicals ranked only a smidgen higher than atheists in familiarity with the New Testament and Jesus’s teachings.

    George Gallup Jr. said in a comment on this that------ “Americans revere the Bible—but, by and large, they don’t read it,’’.

    Another poll, The Barna Group, a Christian polling firm, found in 2012 that evangelicals accepted the attitudes and beliefs of the Pharisees—religious leaders depicted throughout the New Testament as opposing Christ and his message—more than they accepted the teachings of Jesus.
  13. Noblemen, how many of you are there?
    And what do you say to the dozens of dire warnings
    in the NT (addressed to church members) about ...
    losing eternal life, gaining eternal death,
    not being allowed to enter the kingdom of God/heaven,
    being removed from the Book of Life, etc. etc.
  14. Hi Major,
    I like the cafeteria explanation!
    I am not up to date with polling however one would again have to work hard not to see the Rebellious Spirit loosed in this world. Authority is something now to challenge and blame and taking responsibility is like a thing of the past. Signs of the times for sure.

    This attitude has crept into far to many Christians as well but refuse to see it even through the written word of God. They them selves buck authority especially among believers and feel it is their calling to correct pastors and churches and point out all these so called faults. The problem their is.......the Holy Spirit did not lead them nor did God direct them, for their actions and words are opposed to the written word of God or His ways.

    Major have you noticed how many believers Refuse to sit under any type of leadership today? Claim God showed them how bad it was and told them to Not sit under the authority of a pastor. Or lol this one......I rebuked my pastor and told him his errors over and over and he does not like me or asked me to leave or this pastor claims he is lead by God but I can tell you that I don't see it or believe it, so I am out of here for after all scripture says we need to shake the dust off our feet if we are not accepted.

    What happened to the day where you sought after God and allowed God to Direct Your Steps and attend the church He wants you in no matter what?

    Oh well Brother, the more I learn of the things of God the more I realize, I have not even scratched the surface of all there is to know and learn. My assumption is.......there is No End !!
    Blessings my Brother
    Major and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  15. Amen Jim!

    To be brutally honest, I have not had anyone say to me that they would not sit under the authority of a pastor. However, I have had some people leave because they could not sit under the preaching of God's Word. As I talked earlier about, some people like what they know even if it is wrong and will not accept the truth no matter who shows them their error. They know what they know and dig in deeper and deeper.

    I spoke many years ago on the ills and sin of racism. I explained how all of God's people will live in heave together so you better start learning how to get along now and not later.and even explained that Jesus in the flesh was not a white Caucasian man at all. He would have looked exactly like the Middle Eastern peoples of His day.

    I had a lovely elderly couple meet me at the door and say... " we see that you love black people, and we will not be back again".

    My reply then is the same one I use today. It was a blessing to see you come, and it is now a blessing to see you go!

    I have had the same thing happen from those who do not want to hear about abortion or homosexuality or adultery. But the truth of God's Word always cuts deep and it is up to the Holy Spirit to convict the sinner of sin and lead them to Christ.

    You spoke before on having to "Un-learn" somethings before actually learning other things and that is exactly what I am saying. When we can admit that simple truth we my brother are on the way to really experiencing the joy of God's salvation. My experience Jim has been that not many folk will talk face to face about rejecting Bible authority because they know that they are wrong. But instead they will just walk away to another church which is liberal in its teachings and have rejected God's absolute Word.

    Now, we see the opposite on Christian web sites. We see confrontation and arguments really for one reason. People can hide behind the anonymity of a computer screen. Honestly, you and I have seen people say things on this web site and get angry and write things that they would never say to anyone's face. You see, if I called you a low down dirty skunk, in the back of my mind I am not real sure that you will not smack me in the mouth with a leg of lamb. But on a computer, we know nothing will happen hence the confrontational attitude of many. It other words, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will not harm me".

    Now this is all free physiological information I give to you at no charge Jim. I paid lot of money to learn such stuff but I want you to be informed so do not send me any money (LOL)!
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  16. Nobleman can speak for himself. I would say however that OSAS is a banned topic for this site, however you continue to bring it up.

    I would say to you, if the Moderators continue to allow us to talk about this is that there is in fact NO Scriptures that say we can lose our salvation. None!

    Now I can take any Bible verse and make it say what I want it to say. That however does not mean that the verse actually says that.

    Allow me to show you all something. Again. If this is breaking the rules, delete this and throw it away.

    John 8:29.........."And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."
    John 6:39.......... "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day".

    Are those two verses true? IF they are not true then those who reject have just found the problem with their theology. But then What do they teach us????

    1). First, those who are Christians have been given to the Son by the Father.
    2). Jesus told us that he always does the will of the Father because he says that he always does the things that are pleasing to Him. So, Jesus can never fail to do the will of the Father. If he did, then he would have sinned.
    3). Jesus said that it is the will of the Father that of all who have been given to Jesus that he would "lose nothing but raise it up on the last day." From this we can conclude that Jesus cannot lose anyone and that those who are given to him by the Father will also be resurrected.

    Now this.

    The context means that those who are raised are believers and is speaking of the resurrection to glory -- which occurs on "the last day,".
    So, it is the will of the Father that of those whom are given to Jesus . . .
    • Jesus will lose none
    • Jesus will resurrect them on the last day

    Stay with me now........If people lose their salvation, then Jesus fails to do the will of the Father by both losing some and by not resurrecting them. If Jesus were to fail in doing this, he would have sinned; but Jesus cannot sin. Therefore, we must necessarily conclude that not only will Jesus do the will of the Father by not losing anyone who has been given to him but that he will also do the will of the Father by resurrecting those same people to glory. So if people can lose their salvation, then it necessarily follows that Jesus would fail to do the will of the Father by resurrecting them. But this can't be. Therefore, Christians cannot lose their salvation.
    Simple, isn't it? Still, objections remain for some.
  17. That's what you think, words can kill ya!!
    Major and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  18. Umm They Won't !!


    Now then see to it that ye all do it
    Cturtle likes this.
  19. Oh yes......Please feel free to discuss in pm :)
  20. Thanks. I should have thought of that !

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