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Believing in Jesus alone does not get you into heaven?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Mellow, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. Believing in Jesus alone does not get you into heaven?

    We are saved if we believe that Jesus died for our sins, and that He rose on the third day. But the bible says the drunkards, homosexual offenders, thiefs, liars, and the adulterers will not inherit the kingdom. That confuses me. We must believe in Jesus, but if we are any of the things that God hates while we believe in Jesus, we cannot get into heaven? So then we cannot get into heaven for the mere belief in Jesus, thus we also have to have moderate sin. So if that is true, how do we know what is moderate? This is confusing.
  2. If one is born again that person is a new creature in Christ and old things are passed away. That does not mean you will not struggle with your flesh- even the great Apostle Paul cried out oh wretched man that I am- we are to grow by maturing according to the Word and we are transformed in our minds and lives as we learn to enter His presence but our salvation is based on His work.
    Look at the parable of the seed- some is sown on the road and takes no root- these people were never really saved. Some falls on stony ground and the cares of this world means more to these that Jesus- they may have seen Him but never really knew Him. Then there is the good soil- a heart that is drawn to Christ- this person will not be lost thought they struggle in life for it is God's pleasure to bring them into His kingdom and bear fruit in their lives.
    So we may indeed struggle and stumble but we do not deliberately live like the world. Our righteousness as the scripture declares is imputed to us- we are given the very righteousness of Christ in which to stand.
    The following verses demonstrate that our salvation is a gift from God and not of works- it also demonstrates that works do have an appropriate place in our lives:
    Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
    Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
  3. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Salvation is by faith

    Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

    True faith in God will always produce works- so we can see that works are simply the mainfest evidence that we are walking in faith.
  4. So what your saying is that liars, thiefs and so forth are disbelievers in Jesus... since those kinds are incapable of believing in Jesus because belief in Jesus will only produce good works?

  5. We have to make a conscious effort to not get drunk.
    We have to make a conscious effort to not commit homosexual acts.
    We have to make a conscious effort to not steal, not lie, not commit adultery…

    If I’m not making an effort to change and do what’s right, do I “really” believe?

    It’s not unlike an offender going up against the judge in court.
    If he is making an effort to better himself, the judge may be lenient.
    If he is not making an effort to better himself, the judge may be very harsh.

    Two different judgments for the same crime. It all depends on what is in the offenders heart.
  6. What I am saying is though we stumble as men will do we are covered by His blood and do not purposefully and willfully live a lifestyle of sin and rebellion.
    Your heavenly Father will not reject His child when that one stumbles anymore than an earthly father would reject his child if he fell. We dust them off and put them on their feet.

    One should understand the nature of the tripartite man to understand the work of God.
    1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

    1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
    He who is born of God (born again) sinneth not
    1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    And yet we have sin- how is that possible? We are given a new spirit as we are born again- this is the new life God imparts and this inner man is the dwelling place and place of communion with the Holy Spirit. Our outer man (physical body is perishing and our inner man is being made new)
    2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

    A born again believer receives revelation knowledge from the Holy Spirit and begins to believe God's Word- in that area that man's mind is renewed or changed in that it now agrees with God- this is the process of saving your soul.
    Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    So we receive new life, that life begins to permeate our thinking and our body follows our thoughts- that is sanctification.
    If we are born again- if we yield our hearts to God HE performs this work in us and that translates to the expression of works in our lives. Religion works from the outside in and God works from the inside out.:)

    1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

    Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    We must simply yield our lives and trust our Lord. He will lead us into all truth and He will draw us ever deeper into His love and goodness. You will not loose a single thing you trust into His hand and it is His greatest desire to bring you into His kingdom- He spared no expense to reddeem you and He will move heaven and earth to bring you closer to His heart.
    Christianity has never been a list of do's and dont's but has always been about following and trusting Him-
    Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
  7. I see what your saying. A believer in Jesus cannot say he's in love with Jesus, and then also be the head of a Mafia.

    Or a believer in Jesus cannot say he believes in Jesus, and get drunk five days out of the week.

    A believer in Jesus cannot say he believes in Jesus, and then write songs to confuse his audience to turn from God.

    Is that how Jesus feels about it?

  8. Your saying Christianity is not about do's and don'ts but in following Him. Following Him is the act of doing good deeds. Following Jesus are do's and don'ts. :eek:

    It seems like the subject is being changed. I am talking about why Jesus said that sinners will not inherit the kingdom. Why does he say this:

    I Corithians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
  9. What are your thoughts on the subject?

    I had the opportunity to sin (drink) this weekend, the 4th and all. BUT turning my back to the Lord and chugging a few beers would have broke my heart. Yet I still sinned in other ways, I'm human. It is the forgivness and strength God has given me to repent with all my heart, turn my life from sin and to Him, that is my rebirth in and through the Lord.

    I think there is a definite list of do's and don'ts, but I'm not the judge and never will be. If my Dad commited adultery in action or in his mind and has stopped with a sincere heart, repented, and eliminated this behavior from his life now that he agree's it is against God, he is forgiven.

    My brother is a Christian and keeps drinking. Deep down he knows it is against God. Is he saved? I'm not the judge, but he is yelling Lord Lord and not following the Way. He could be a stronger Christian than me, more saved than me, and love God more than me. Yet it doesen't look that way due to his actions. If he died tomorrow my heart would greive in a profound way because he didn't give a 110% to God on earth, but I know he loves the Lord, and his actions are tearing him apart. Man, when he gives his life to God the earth and Heaven is going to shake with joy, I can't wait to see it. He had a dream this weekend that I got baptized, I hadn't told him I was praying for guidance on being baptized again (I was as a baby). I'm going to give it all I got when I give my testimony to get him to raise that hand and walk with the Lord. I think I just hijacked this thread...
  10. What are my thoughts on this? Like I said, it's confusing.

    Another reason why it's confusing is when He also instructs us that even if the believer is scarcely saved, what will become of the wicked :eek:

    1 Peter 4:18 If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?
  11. What are you confused about?

    I'm wicked but I'm going to Heaven. I heard somebody ask,"What would you ask Jesus if you could ask one question?" Would the above post be your question? If it was mine I would just have to ask Him if I was going to Heaven, cause we are all sinners, I repented, but am still a sinner. I have turned my back on sin, and with the Lord's strength have not looked back. I still sin though, but not the sin I can control, if that makes any sense. And I believe it gets only easier as we focus on the Word, and keep our eyes fixed on Jesus.

    Trust in God's power in your life, and focus on your new identity in the Lord....I just heard that on the TV in the background :) .
  12. I think you are missing my point but that is ok- God bless you and have a good night.
  13. I think part of the confusion comes from using the term "believe." I'm not sure it conveys to the modern mind the fulness of what was intended. I haven't done much more than a quick scan of my Strong's lexicons, but their are the overtones of faithfulness, steadfastness, trust, reliance, etc.

    The drunkards, homosexuals, etc. that Jesus references are those who habitually, unrepentently embrace their sin. A believer does sin, sometimes even those very things mentioned, but he resists the temptation, struggles with it, repents of it, and clings to Jesus as his Saviour and Helper and Redeemer and Advocate. It is not merely an assent to certain facts of history and metaphysics. It's rather like a betrothal, an engagement, looking to that great wedding day. How does one behave when he or she has declared their intent to marry? Do they not focus their attention and behavior on that relationship? Do they not cease to date others? And don't they engage in planning and preparing for their wedded life? And even in marriage, if a man flirts with the waitress, he may receive a reprimand or a night in the doghouse, but probably not a divorce. He apologizes and, if he has any brains, will behave more wisely the next time. If he has an affair, his marriage will certainly be in grave jeopardy. And, if he spends every night carousing with hookers despite his wife's pleas to stop, his vows and his ring won't suffice to preserve the marriage.

    Let me use another illustration, if I may. I was following my wife's car to an event. At one point, I got stuck behind a slower vehicle and got caught by a red light. My desire, however, was to keep my wife in sight so I wouldn't get lost and so I could go where she was going. She, in turn, seeing my plight, turned off the road and waited for me to get free and catch up, then led me on to our destination. I didn't intend to get held up, didn't want to be at that light, but was stuck. In hindsight, I probably could have avoided the trap if I had reacted faster. The key here, is that I was trying to follow her and go where she was going. When the light turned green, I headed straight for her.

    These are not perfect analogies, but I hope they convey some of what I understand the term "believe" to mean in this context.
  14. I get what your saying. What it all boils down to is persistent sin and the love of sin will not get you into heaven.

    The wedding was a good example.
  15. Correct, the sin you can't control is not so great.

    I was confused about that passage. How He said the believer is scarcely saved. But Rumely's post made sense. I know what that means now.
  16. "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble." James 3:19. There is more to knowing Jesus than simply believing He exists. There is more to knowing the Father than simply believing He exists. Many believe Jesus lived and died, but that's as far as it goes for them. He is not real to them NOW. They have never called upon Him as He says to do and sought His forgiveness for sin. A head knowledge of His existence doesn't make one a believer. A personal relationship with Him does. Having a life changing experience of forgiveness that gives peace within makes the difference between just believing in Him and believing ON Him and KNOWING Him.
  17. I heard this story years ago and it demonstrates the difference between biblical belief and non-biblical belief.

    A high wire performer strung a wire across the Niagara Falls and soon a large crowd formed. The performer asked the crowd if they believed he could walk back and forth across the wire. They excitedly answered yes, and he walked back and forth easily across the tight wire. Then he asked the crowd if they thought he could push a wheelbarrow across the wire, and again they eagerly responded that they believed he could, and he did. Then he asked if they thought he could push a wheelbarrow across the wire with a person sitting in it, and if so to raise their hands. All across the crowd hundreds of hands shot up into the air. They believed he could do it. Then the performer pointed to a man standing close by that had raised his hand and said to him "get into the wheelbarrow!" This is the kind of belief [biblical belief] that Jesus is looking for, a "get in the wheelbarrow" kind of faith. It is easy to say we believe in God [non-biblical belief] but it is another thing to go to a deeper level with God and actually place our faith in Him to the point that we ask Him to become a reality in our lives by inviting Him to come and live within our hearts.

    If just believing that God exists will get one to heaven the father of lies and his demons will be there because they "believe and tremble." As Jesus said, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:22-23) These are the people that believed with their minds only and not their hearts. Note that Jesus didn't say "I knew you once but you continued in sin so I'm now going to break my promise to you and you are going to hell instead of heaven." That is a lie of the devil. No, He said "I never knew you." If we receive Christ, then several days later sin one time, and ask Jesus for forgiveness, will He grant it? Sure He will. Ok, what if we sin ten times and ask Him for forgiveness, will He still forive us? Sure will. What about ten thousand times? At this point some of you are thinking, nope. The guy is a sinner, not a Christian. How many times did Jesus say we ought to forgive one another? 70 x 7. Most bible scholars say this doesn't mean on the 491st time you can refuse to forgive, it means forgiveness is unlimited. God's grace and God's forgiveness is unlimited.


  18. You will know what kind of tree it is by the fruit it bears. The true believer looks to please God before pleasing himself.
  19. Another thought is if you have really been born again , you have the Holy Spirit living in you and He will gently tug at you to tell you that you no longer do these things in the world . You also loose your desire to do them and you want to please Jesus who has saved you so therefore these worldly things are not part of your life any more.

    Example... before I was a born again Christian I was out celebrating with my so called friends and doing things that were well lets say not too acceptable, but when I realized that all that the world has to offer left me with an empty feeling inside and I was left seaching and searching.

    When i accepted that these habits did not satisfy me, I repented of my sins and maybe it was not instant but I did not want to do all those things any more. Christ changed me .... I didn't do it. He did. It was not about me . It was about Him.

    Your title to the thread ...." Believing in Jesus alone will not get you to heaven." That is true . You have to ask Him to come into your heart and cleanse and wash you till you are as white as snow.
  20. We can't just take one verse where it says one thing, yet we know there is another verse that kind of completes it or looks like it, so then we have to place them together, that's how we learn 100 % rather than 50 %.
    A good example will be this, how Christ said to someone, "your faith has saved thee." But in another verse He says to someone else, Go, and sin no more after the "faith has saved thee" part. And in another He and John the Baptist say "Repent." And other parts it's this, If you do keep my commandments, then you love Me and I will abide in you, since I keep the commandments of my Father, and He loves Me. something along that line. And in many others verses it says to keep His commandments, and in return it shows that you love Him.

    So we know that we need to have faith (believe on Christ and having a relationship with Him and all things therein), and live in repentance, and keep the commandments! That's how we're saved! not just faith! because faith can die. Works can die too. but all of those together cannot die ! with the necessity of Prayer also :)

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