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Before JESUS was born on Earth

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by heydave, Sep 7, 2007.

  1. Before JESUS was born on Earth

    Did the Trinity of GOD exist before JESUS was born ?

    In what form did JESUS exist before HE was born on the Earth ?

    Is there truly only ONE GOD yet three "facets" ?

    Is JESUS GOD ?

    Are you able to PROVE your response from THE BIBLE ?

    dave
     
  2. In the beginning-

    Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
    Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
    Jesus is the beginning

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Jesus brought forth all creation

    He was the sacrifice for our sins even before we knew Him-

    Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    He is God Almighty-

    Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    One could go on for quite a long time trying to define the Lord Emmanuel- God with Us, the Living Word-
     
  3. Amen!!! What he said!:goodpost:
     
  4. I know the appearances of the pre incarnate Christ as a Theophany. Here is an unedited cut and paste on that word.

    The Creator appeared to Adam and Eve in visible form in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8). "This is not a crude anthropomorphism, but an actual theophany. The 'Word of God,' Christ in His preincarnate state, regularly appeared in the garden for fellowship and communication with His people. How long this period of fellowship had endured is not stated, but it was long enough for the Satanic rebellion in heaven and expulsion to earth. Since it was not long enough for Eve to conceive children, however, and since she and Adam had been instructed by God to do so, it was probably not more than a few days or weeks" (Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Study Bible).

    The Son of God took on a visible form at various times in the Old Testament, appearing to:
    God has only shown himself to man in the form of the Son, Jesus Christ, both incarnate and preincarnate (Matthew 11:27). However, God has revealed his power and invisible attributes in all that He has created (Romans 1:20; Colossians 1:16).

    Source: http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/theophany.html
     
  5. JESUS declares that HE and THE FATHER are ONE

    John 17 New American Standard Bible

    ( JESUS declares that HE and THE FATHER are ONE )


    11"I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are."

    >>> THAT THEY MAY BE ONE EVEN AS WE ARE

    21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

    22"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;

    >>>> JUST AS WE ARE ONE
     
  6. "he Who Has Seen Me Has Seen The Father"

    More evidence from THE BIBLE that JESUS is GOD >>> ONE WITH THE FATHER


    "HE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER"

    John 14 New American Standard Bible


    5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?"

    6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

    7 " If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."

    8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."

    9Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

    10"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

    11"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

    John 14 New King James Version


    5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?â€

    6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.


    7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.â€

    8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.â€

    9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

    10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

    11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

    "HE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER"
     
  7. Who was Melckizedek?...

    Hebrews 7

    The King of Righteousness

    1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth[Genesis 14:18-20] part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,†and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,†3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

    Could it be possible that he was also a preincarnate Christ Jesus the Son of God?
     
  8. Good Point !!!!

    GOOD POINT !!!

    The entire chapter seems to indicate the possibility.

    Hebrews 7 New American Standard Bible


    1For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,

    2to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace.

    3Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.

    4Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils.

    5And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham.

    6But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.

    7But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater.

    8In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.

    9And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes,

    10for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

    11Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

    12For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.

    13For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.

    14For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.

    15And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,

    16who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.

    17For it is attested of Him,
    "YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
    ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

    18For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness

    19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

    20And inasmuch as it was not without an oath

    21(for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,
    "THE LORD HAS SWORN
    AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND,
    'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");

    22so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

    23The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,

    24but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.

    25Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

    26For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;

    27who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

    28For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever.


    :)
     
  9. The Deity of Jesus Christ

    >>>>>>><<<<<<<

    The Deity of Jesus Christ


    John 1 New American Standard Bible

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    2 He was in the beginning with God.

    3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

    5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

    >>>>>>><<<<<<<

    It plainly states that THE WORD WAS GOD.

    :):preach:
     
  10. There is a great difference in opinion about Melchizedek, king of Salem- some say he was a man but with no known historical background and/or tracealbe lineage others think he is a type and shadow of our Lord Jesus Christ- I have never seen enough evidence one way or another to make up my mind.
     
  11. I agree !!!
     
  12. God provides us with all manner of signs in the old testament that we might be ready to receive the truth in the new testament and you are right in saying that Melchizedek was a type of Christ - thus one of these signs.

    Melchizedek was the king of Salem, which was the ancient city which would become Jerusalem. He was also an high priest of God, even before the Levites and the Jewish priesthood.

    Here is a sign of Jesus Christ, both king and high priest everlasting, from everlasting.

    Consider all the signs in the old testament, for there are many.
     
  13. JESUS own witness of who HE IS

    Luke 22 New American Standard Bible


    66 When it was day, the Council of elders of the people assembled, both chief priests and scribes, and they led Him away to their council chamber, saying,

    67 "If You are the Christ, tell us." But He said to them, "If I tell you, you will not believe;

    68 and if I ask a question, you will not answer.

    69 "But from now on THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the power OF GOD."

    70 And they all said, "Are You the Son of God, then?" And He said to them, "Yes, I am."

    71 Then they said, "What further need do we have of testimony? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth."
     
  14. Genesis 14:18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him and said:

    Would you read too much on bread and wine he gave to Abraham?
     
  15. There is website I created a couple of years ago that might help you understand the role of Christ both before and after his life on earth.

    http://petejepson.tripod.com
     
  16. Olde Testament

    Genesis 1 New King James Version




    26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.â€

    27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

    28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.â€


    >>>>>>><<<<<<<

    Is it probable or possible that JESUS was ALREADY in the form of a man BEFORE HE, being GOD, CREATED man in HIS OWN LIKENESS ???

    ( verse 26 >>> partial quote >>>> "in OUR image, according to OUR likeness" )

    ( verse 27 >>> partial quote >>>> "in HIS own image" ) ( Perhaps not just the image that HE had in mind, but HIS very own physical likeness. )


    Is there a difficulty with JESUS already being in physical HUMAN FORM before creation and then being made manifest in the womb of the virgin Mary ?

    Could HE not have converted from HIS physical form in heaven to the seed manifested into the womb of Mary ?

    Do you feel that these thoughts are out of line with scripture ?

    dave :)
     
  17. Hard to say Dave- man is already in God's image- three parts - spirit, soul and body - God manifests as Father , Son and Holy Ghost- both tripartate . Some of first to references I have seen to Jesus in Genesis were : the Beggining , the Tree of Life andthe lamb slain for covering but who is to say what form He took at first?
     
  18. Thanks !

    What program(s) are you using to open the ".lit" file ?

    dave :confused:
     

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