Been discussing on an atheist site

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by KingJ, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. and some interesting points have come up that I really want to share with you all ;)

    1. Contradictions in the bible.

    There are lists and lists of them. Most will say that this is evidence of the bible being imperfect and can therefore not be the perfect word of God.

    I think that contradictions ironically show the authenticity of scripture. It shows that the books were never force balanced. For a contradiction to be something of value it would need to be a contradiction of something of value. Not 'John never said Jesus was kissed by Judas' nonsense. Then I think we all agree that humans penned the bible except for the ten commandments. Minor contradictions are an obvious expectation / difference between God writing and God inspiring.

    2. The authenticity of all pro Christian historians.

    It seems you can debunk the validity of any written literature from the past by casting just enough doubt. I guess no history is true. Nero never persecuted Christians. Tacitus never wrote what he did. It was Christians trying to manipulate history. For some unknown reason we wanted the world to think Nero killed many of us. We need to provide unedited video footage.

    3. God of the bible is judged without the bible.

    The MO goes like this: Mock God of the bible, then when He is defended with the bible, mock the bible.

    God killed firstborns = God is evil. Forget the fact that the bible says heaven belongs to the children. God killed many in the flood = God is evil because He kills. Forget the fact that scripture says He relents from sending calamity and that we have an eternal spirit. Meaning God does not kill but rather brings change.

    4. False hatred of evil

    God of the bible is mocked for being evil. Well that makes you think the person doing the mocking is good, because they must hate what is evil? ''God ordained cruel slavery and the rape of little girls''. God is evil personified! Well, yes, that god would be evil. But if it is proven that accusers committed reading blunders and that God of the bible is in fact not at all evil ......and there is no apology....for the false accusations / quoting of half truths and continuously spouted insults...who is evil?

    5. Smart when its convenient

    Some can grasp the complexity of evolution, have read literature from many historians, studied many religions, use big words you need to Google....and yet can read the bible A to Z and completely miss the message of amazing grace.

    They demand that empirical evidence of Jesus or God be something tangible. Ie, God must pay them a personal visit, be a neighbor or someone on the school's athletic board. The fact that their nose is nowhere near their rear is not sufficient evidence. The fact that Jesus is the most popular person in history is not sufficient to cast doubt. The fact that there is no carnal motivation for spreading scripture. Power? Bible says whoever makes themselves the least will be the greatest in heaven. Money? The bible says give expecting nothing in return and Paul worked for his wages. Fame? Jesus was crucified. If anyone had an agenda...every / any other religion would be more feasible :ROFLMAO:.
    Juk and Grant Melville say Amen and like this.
  2. I am amazed that over 1,500 years & 40 writers all agree on the same thing......The Lord Jesus is that possible? Matthew 19:26

    In the world I live in, you can hardly get two people to agree on the same Ideology......and if three or more people are gathered, you hear this statement.....what works for one individual does not necessarily work for the next individual, even if you are speaking about "Faith".

    My heart breaks for those you speak of that....demand empirical evidence of Jesus or God.......I don't wish to win the debate or make a more impressive point in the discussion......I wish they could see of their own free will and accord. And really.....just what is the agenda behind "contradictions of the bible" if they would only be honest?

    I remember in college when I had a physics course and we studied gravity....terminal velocity.....falling at 32ft per second....etc I did not believe any of it......but to this day I will not walk off the end of a building, gravity does exist, even if I don't believe in the attributes. So it is, with Jesus or God.......sadly, my heart breaks as they do not need empirical evidence, yet they demand it so!!!
    How can anyone study the human body itself, and all the complexities....and say oh, no I need empirical evidence of God..........I am so amazed by this.
    Juk, KingJ and Silk says Amen and like this.
  3. "You cannot have a rational discussion with irrational people." - me
    It is impossible to have any kind of discussion with those whose minds (what little they have) are already made up.
    There is incontrovertible proof of the supernatural, lots of it. Will many accept it? No. It doesn't agree with their world view.
    There is not one shred of hard evidence for the existence of aliens (Martians not Mexicans), but they'll accept that without question.
    That DOES fit their world view.

    What is world view based on? For the vast majority of the unwashed masses it is based on nothing more than ignorance and personal prejudice.
    Does not make for a very fertile ground for reasoned discussion.
    Juk, KingJ, Silk and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  4. Jesus will manifest himself to those who believe but only those who are humble not proud. Atheists have to rid themselves of their pride. They being foolish if you ask me. Otherise they are going to be taken completely by surprise on the last day.
    Juk, KingJ and Dale Elliott says Amen and like this.
  5. A lot of controversies (what is meant by good and evil, and given that -- is God good or evil, Is the Bible reliable, etc) have roots in the basic assumptions.

    If our views are man centered, we are led to an conclusion that a God that allows bad things happen to good people must be evil, when the reality is that we are God's to use as He sees fit. It is our purpose for which He created us. He is the potter we are the clay. His holiness and goodness is not dependent upon what happens to us. The fact that He does love us and provides for us generously within His plan simply shows how great a god He is.

    As far as the veracity of the Bible, we know that the without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the both the meaning of the Scriptures as well as how they are to be applied is missing. Someone once pointed out in another that if the scriptures were absolutely clear then rather than bring questions to the Lord, we would simply go to the ANSWER book. The Bible would become a hindrance to the Lords relationship to us rather than facilitating it. We tend to be too legalistic as it is. We need no encouragement to fight about issues we do not fully comprehend.
    Juk, KingJ and Grant Melville says Amen and like this.
  6. Ya know the Bible is spiritually discerned. And to those who are perishing or in other words have not accepted Christ yet are not able to understand what the Bible teaches or says.

    There are no contradictions in the Bible and to say that God is evil is contrary to His Character. God does not bring evil on us or just do with us as He pleases. God is love and He is a righteous God. He is Holy and He is just.
    Juk, KingJ and Fish Catcher Jim says Amen and like this.
  7. Staff Notice
    As this subject generally leads down the path of great debate, this thread will be watched with great care.
  8. Hmm what atheist site is this?
    I would say shake the dust off your feet and move on...they not going to listen and have made up their minds.

    I personally dont spend time on any atheist sites and it would be a waste of my time doing so. Since they dont think anything of blashpheming the holy spirit...its not a good idea to hang out with them.
    Juk and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  9. Lanolin's right; give them a wide berth.
    Juk likes this.
  10. Exactly. For even if you dont except this fact - you are getting seed planted in you that you do not need and will have to dig out.
    Juk likes this.
  11. 1. :giggle: Does it matter? They all the same.

    2. Shake the dust already? It is hard to keep your cool, but lets make no mistake that all the unsaved are alive because they still have hope and we are only down here for them. Talking to atheists in their zone is difficult but not much more then talking to someone at work these days...
    Juk and eric m williams say Amen and like this.
  12. Agreed. But these days their two cents is spilling out into all media and politics. The sooner we learn to deal with their arguments the better.
    Juk, Big Moose and eric m williams says Amen and like this.
  13. 1) This idea pretty well negates any further discussion of the bibles inerrancy, but that is pretty well the intent.
    When someone brings this up I enjoy getting them to pin down the contradictions they are referring to. In most cases, they are just regurgitating something someone else told them.
    Even if it is something they've noted themselves it gives a potent opening into walking through scripture that they have basically asked for.

    2) Its a safe bet that they were not there to directly experience most of the things they personally choose to believe are true. That means they are taking someone else's word for it, which opens up the question "Why do you choose to have faith in one person's word over another?".

    3 & 4) Leads to the questions of "What is evil?" and "How do you know it is evil?".

    5) I find this everywhere. It seems to be a fundamental trait of humanity.

    Learning how to deal wisely (and within our own personal capabilities) with arguments is self-defense.
    Our children are going to be exposed to this. Whether they are a child by physical age or simply immature in faith.

    We should take care that we do not just say "avoid it because it could end badly".
    We should focus on "Is this where Jesus wants me or this brother/sister to be working for Him?".
    We have to remember that there are those who are tasked by the Holy Spirit and gifted to deal with such people.
    If they are we should called out to so we should do what we can to help prep them for it , which includes lots of prayer.
    Even if they are not, these and similiar defenses will inevitably come up if we have the audacity to tell others outside of safe ground (the church building) that we follow Jesus.

    If such discussions are entered with the intent to lead others to Jesus then it is simply missionary work, and some are gifted for that (some aren't). It is evangelism and snatching souls from the lion's maw.

    It should also be noted that anti-christ and anti-bible ideologies are not limited to atheists. There is a tendency to treat atheists like they are damned just because they are atheists.
    They are not.
    They are damned because they have sinned and they deny Jesus.
    That applies to everyone who does not follow Jesus, even if they are regular church goers.
    Juk, Paul K, KingJ and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  14. True (y)
  15. Well, Jesus said to deal with their arguments by not engaging with them, as said, wiping dust off feet. Because they are not welcoming to you. But if you want to keep beating your head against a brick wall, its your choice. Dont complain if it hurts. Been there, done that.

    I would pray rather than argue.
    Juk likes this.
  16. Just tell them there is nothing God cant forgive if they would humble themselves and pray.
    Juk likes this.
  17. The apostle Paul engaged in such discussions.
    Thats part of being an apostle/missionary/prophet.
    Granted it is not a task that everyone is designed for, but it is still a function of the Bride of Jesus.
    Quite often it will be someone observing the discussion that is reached rather than the one you think you are talking to.
    KingJ likes this.
  18. True but then again - I may prepare to jump out of the third floor window in case of a fire - but this does not mean I go looking for 3rd floor windows to jump out of.
  19. Paul preached Christ, and he did reason in those greek forums but he spent many many months doing so. He used something called an 'eye opener' eg the inscription to an unknown God, to point to the athiests interest in God, even though they tried to deny Him.

    But he wasnt successful until God opened the athiests hearts and boright them to repentence. They just said 'what is this babbler saying?'

    If King J wants to tell us which athiest website hes going to, maybe we can help him and encourage him. But if not, dont see what the point is. We dont know what to pray for.
  20. Also, casting pearls before swine isnt recommended, or giving food to dogs who will turn and rend you. Ive been called a ho, and much worse by athiests.

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