Baptizing... babies?...!

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by FrankLee, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. #1 FrankLee, Jul 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
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    I find my spirit agitated whenever I see a video of a baby being "baptized". That is being sprinkled with water or a water pistol filled with Holy water or some other method. Unless the baby has a good bath out of the ordeal the entire affair has been an exercise in spiritual futility. Babies are tiny little things but the error of calling their sprinkling a baptism is not tiny but large. It's only one thorn on the thornbush of dead religion.
    Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
    He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
    First you have to believe. I'd be greatly amazed should an infant believe let alone be able to express that belief.
    Supposedly mature men in the glamorous robes of their office doing what? A traditional ritual having nothing to do with salvation. They really think that it's beneficial, scriptural which completely stupefies me. They are not even aware that they themselves are unredeemed and are passing on their dead traditions to another generation.
    One of the strongest words Jesus ever spoke to me was one night as I prayed outside up in a cleared out spot on our place. I'd been praying for sometime and was about to go back to the house. As I went to leave He spoke and said so powerfully in my spirit "EVERY GENERATION I HAVE TO BEGIN ALL OVER AGAIN". It's so true. Every new batch of babies has never heard of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, sin or anything having to do with eternal life. God's work begins again and He must work through new generations of believers.
    My baptism to me was a serious affair several months after I had been visited by Jesus, saved then baptized in the Holy Spirit. This gave me time to learn more about it. My dear brother Jimmy just a few years younger, was baptized with me. It was a cold winter's day and we had to break ice an inch thick on those Arkansas River backwaters. My wife told me I had a visible glow when I came home. That's the way a baptism should be. The glow, less the icy waters of course.
    At what point did these infants make their profession of faith? Why would a rational adult be intimidated by the traditions of their denomination so that the Scriptures of the Bible are tread under foot? Once again tradition trumping the word of God. How many infants do we see being baptized in the new testament? Surely the fear of man brings a snare! Do I make too much of this practice? Which part of evil are we to ignore?
    Proverbs 29:25 (NKJV)
    The fear of man brings a snare,
    But whoever trusts in the Lord shall be safe.
    [​IMG]
    Tevye in fiddler on the roof said it with authority, "TRADITION"! That's it. He was Jewish of course but the plague of the fear of men sees no cultural or spiritual lines. Peer pressure is a powerful influence. Even deadly. The spirit gives life the letter kills.
    I realize that the men who perform such acts are not born again Christians but labor under the false beliefs of their religion. The blind sprinkling the newly arrived. God said it first;
    Isaiah 29:13 (NKJV)
    Therefore the Lord said:
    “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths
    And honor Me with their lips,
    But have removed their hearts far from Me,
    And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,
    The ignorant and unsaved ministers of these dead denominations practice the same empty rituals on so called adults. My unsaved mother in law, now deceased, was "baptized" by her unsaved Methodist pastor by dipping a rose into Methodist holy water and spring her with it. Now, isn't that just about the sweetest thing you ever heard of? Land o' Goshen! Frighteningly, an entire building full of ignorant people sat and nodded their approval. No one was benefitted of course. My wonderful wife continued to minister to the poor ignorant woman and a change was seen in her before death. We can only hope she really met Jesus.
    After being childless for 14 long lonely years Jesus saved me, baptized me in the Holy Spirit, gave me the gift of tongues and began to speak to my wife and I regarding the son He was going to send us. We were amazed and excited. My wife's body was allergic to my seed and killed it on contact. The doctors could do nothing but Jesus could. Many afflictions awaited us before God's promise was fulfilled but certainly it was. We met much ridicule, unbelief and cold indifference but Jesus my wife and I had the last laugh. One thing He said to me was so great, "the mouths of the scoffs will be shut at the telling" and they were! On October 9th,1979 the Holy Spirit told me Martha was pregnant. The lab agreed. Nathan, our promise from God, was born on June 25,1980.
    [​IMG]
    Nathan is a spirit filled Christian, minister and student of Israel. God did good!
    As our children were born we dedicated each and every one of them to the God who sent them, Jesus is His first name. They were not sprinkled, spritzed, dunked, squirter, deluged or drizzled. They were anointed by their father - me - with oil and prayed for. Also by the elders of our church. They all came to know Jesus at an early age and after that were baptized in the good old Biblical John the Baptist method of going under then coming back up.
    After experiencing all of this and cheerfully pouring our lives into our God given children, it's impossible to sit and be silent. They casually with non-existant authority say that this is a directive of the savior.
    [​IMG]
    Our surviving children serve God to this day. Joanna, born after Nathan, became a Christian at about five years of age and there was no doubt she knew Him! She died at fifteen thanks to a drinking driver. But glory to God we'll all be rejoined for eternity it in the place He's made for us.
    [​IMG]
    Joanna's last Christmas, December 1996.
    As I have opportunity I will denounce the ways of religion and dead denominations that deceive, stumble and lead astray multitudes. If our government isn't able to have the babies aborted and stand up for the women that kill them, then dead denominations lead those children astray from the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's way too late in my journey to nod in agreement with things I know are not right just to smooth things over.
    Psalms 94:16 (NKJV)
    Who will rise up for me against the evildoers?
    Who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?
    Evil doers? But they're dressed so nice, so clean and have such wonderful manners. The things they say are so sweet! Satan never comes as a snarling rabid beast but as an angel of light. Speaking the truth in love doesn't mean we have to coo like doves. That's not love.
    Psalm 55:21 KJVS
    The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
    If the truth is an affront to someone's actions then it will cause anger and resentment to rise up in them every time. Hopefully the false teachers that practice these things against the word of God will be able to see the light of the gospel and be convicted and saved. Believers must be willing to speak out against error and leave their place of silent anonymity.
     
    bobinfaith likes this.
  2. Yes, I've always wondered about the business of baptizing babies who are non-consenting and do not understand the process. However ... I have also performed emergency baptisms on dying children and children dead at birth at the request of the parents. I did for them what I considered a decent thing that I would have wanted someone to do for me in similar circumstances. I personally see no harm in baptizing babies, provided there is a second baptism later on in life when that person accepts Christ as their Saviour. I belieive that this is likely a very touchy issue for some people, as I am sure there are some strong opinions about it either way. I do not feel, however, that it takes away from the respect and reverence of this sacrament to perform it on a little child. Jesus said to let the children come to Him, and he said it in a way that implicated that anyone impairing or blocking their way to Him would displease Him. I believe that baptism can be regarded in the same manner - it is the little ones coming to Jesus. They may not understand fully, but it is something that Jesus wanted to have happen despite their lack of full understanding.
     
    bobinfaith likes this.
  3. From what I understand, infant baptism is taken to be an analog to infant circumcision (although baptism is performed on both male and female babies) and very different to adult believers baptism practiced by other churches. It is variously asserted that it identifies the infant members of Christian families as members of Christ’s family, and / or confers grace to sustain one until they have gained the maturity and understanding to make a commitment to the Lord. After that maturity has been achieved the believing young person may then be confirmed in the faith.

    As far as scriptural basis, they point to passages where a believer’s family were baptized along with the believer

    Acts 16:14-15
    A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.


    And Acts 18:8
    Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.


    From my view, the specifying household members does not really indicate that infants were baptized. Further, in the case of Crispus’s household (Acts 18:8) the verse indicates that the members of the household believed and then were baptized, which seems to preclude the very young.

    Although the practice of infant baptism is not part of my understanding, I am cognizant that fights over infant vs adult baptism, as well as sprinkling vs immersion cause unending fighting among those who should be brothers. It is well to understand those who may stand on the other side of whatever question tries to divide us and do more to understand them, including why they believe as they do.
     
    bobinfaith likes this.
  4. I think the only issue i have with baptizing babies is that a lot of times is is accompanied with the belief and teaching that salvation has already been attained for them, which is untrue and not biblical.

    When my children were little they were dedicated. But they still have to make their own decision to follow Christ and work out their own salvation and walk with Him.

    Blessings to you all.
     
    Smiler and bobinfaith say Amen and like this.
  5. Hello, FrankLee;

    We teach classes on Baptism by water immersion at church to all, including our Children's Ministry before they get baptized. I agree that infants who are not ready to make their own decision of baptism by water immersion (dipped in water) should not be baptized, yet. I have lovingly and respectfully turned down parents who have asked me to baptize their infant children by water immersion.

    Baptism is a sacrament, a public decision of God as their creator and Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior. The Baptism is the washing with water as salvation cleanses us of our sin. This is very personal for a believer who understands the decision they are making.

    In this class I also include Wisdom and Child Rearing, that parents with infants are blessed by God as the "stewards" of raising their sons and daughters but with a higher responsibility and accountability. This is so seriously given by God and is to be taken so seriously by parents going all the way back to Moses' teaching in the Old Testament.

    Deuteronomy 11:19, You shall teach them to your children, talking of them when you are sitting in your house, and when you are walking by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. Before God holds His infant children accountable in decision making one day, He is going to charge you first as stewards of God's children, meaning God has entrusted you to be the parents of His creation.

    The parent's higher accountability includes teaching, while using wisdom in decision making. Your example of decision for your children's dedication is very clear;

    FrankLee, Tuesday at 4:10 PM Last edited: Tuesday at 4:32 PM
    They were anointed by their father - me - with oil and prayed for. Also by the elders of our church. They all came to know Jesus at an early age and after that were baptized in the good old Biblical John the Baptist method of going under then coming back up.

    Infant Children Dedication in the Christian Church
    When you and your wife dedicated each and every one of them to God, it was your decision as parents. You were led to anoint them with oil along with the elders of the church. When other parents of their infant children dedicated them to God they were led to have water sprinkled on them along with the elders of the church.

    Dedication of an infant is an ordination, be it by anointing of oil, sprinkle of water, or laying of hands. With your church family present, or just the two of you alone, this is a worshipful time for thanking God for your infant child, praying blessings upon him/her and dedicating your child to God.

    1 Samuel 1:21-28 - verses 27-28 when Hannah and Eli the high priest ordained the child Samuel, 27 For this child I prayed, and the LORD has granted me my petition that I made to him. 27 Therefore I have lent him to the LORD. As long as he lives, he is lent to the LORD.

    The dedication is an important and personal decision by the parents. The child is the one who will make their own decision for Christ one day and when they do, should have an adequate mature understanding of their faith, thus baptism by water immersion is also an important decision by the individual believer.

    God bless you and thank you for your thread, FrankLee.

     
    Cturtle likes this.
  6. What about a dedication
     
    Cturtle likes this.
  7. Greetings:

    To me,it's all about obedience.The Lord said it,then do it.If there are arguments about the style,then it would seem that the Lord didn't properly communicate.I'm happy with all styles,the words have to copy the gospel.
    Seems to me baby baptism is best;here's a Bapt not for the the devil and a font for mercy.
    bye
     

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